Which kind of FAITH regarding JESUS do you have?

[1stCenturyLady]

We've been over this a number of times. In reality, my friend! A new reality, in a new humanity, in Christ. But we still reside in flesh until our death.

Death is not cessation, it is separation. The flesh is not some wispy idea, some "second inner man", it's our fleshy body. Just these two differences will ensure we go around in circles endlessly, and there is no benefit in that.

Much love!

Yes, just not the flesh Paul is talking about in Romans 8:9. That is our nature called the old man, or carnal nature or flesh, as in sins of the flesh Gal. 5:19-21. That is what is born again. Sin does not reside in our outer shell called the body. It was within until it was crucified with Christ.

 

[marks]

or carnal nature or flesh

You seem to have this idea that the nature of the flesh exists apart from the flesh.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Death is not cessation, it is separation.

 

[Behold]

That is our nature called the old man, or carnal nature or flesh, as in sins of the flesh Gal. 5:19-21. That is what is born again. .

Paul says "to reckon your old man dead as it is crucified with Christ".

You are teaching that what is dead, (Romans 6 )... that we are to "reckon it dead"... is what is born again.

Actually what is born again is our SPIRIT., not our flesh, and not our old man, as that one is "crucified with Christ".

 

[Brakelite]

That's not what they taught, not at all.

Many things would be different in the Bible if that were true. Here is just one example, again, of many!

Acts 15:18-21 KJV
18) Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19) Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20) But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21) For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Surely James and Peter and the others would have simply said . . . If you aren't keeping Moses' Laws, then you aren't born again, so, get born again! There would be no need to write to them to abstain from anything, since, if they were reborn, they would already be abstaining.

No, if this thinking were correct, the only answer would be that there is no need to concern yourself over such things, only, if you are not already doing everything that God wants, and nothing He prohibits, then, You Need to Get Saved!

But that wasn't their answer.

Much love!

I tend to agree. They apostles expected that those 4 things were essential, and immediate to be recognized. But in the future, there was Revelation through the reading of scriptures every Sabbath. They would grow in knowledge and experience and become more sanctified as they grew.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You seem to have this idea that the nature of the flesh exists apart from the flesh.

Much love!

What do you believe is the old man? You don't seem to be associating it at all with our nature. What else do you think it is? Our nature is our mind and heart; our spirit and soul. The body is just a shell, the puppet that the mind and emotions orchestrates. That is why it is not necessary for our body to die yet to partake of the divine nature and be like Christ now. That is why Jesus didn't sin, and why we who are born again do not sin either. We both have the seed of the Father.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul says "to reckon your old man dead as it is crucified with Christ".

You are teaching that what is dead, (Romans 6 )... that we are to "reckon it dead"... is what is born again.

Actually what is born again is our SPIRIT., not our flesh, and not our old man, as that one is "crucified with Christ".

Where sin resided. That is what is dead. Our old man is gone.

What is born again is more than our mind - our spirit, but our emotions also - our heart. Our heart/soul is where the laws of God are written!

The ONLY thing not dead is our body, but sin doesn't reside there anyway, anymore than it resided in Christ's body. We are just like Christ with His nature. We are born of God.

Sins of "the flesh" are sins of our old carnal nature that is not born again. Christians do not have to deal with sins of the flesh, because our old man - old nature is dead, crucified with Christ. A Christian who still struggles with sin, needs to confess their struggle to Jesus, and tell Him you want to have a new nature that doesn't sin, so that we will be pleasing in His sight. We MUST be born again.

 

[doxley]

It seems to me there is more than one definition to the word "sin." Is there something in the Bible that clears up the confusion?

I believe sin is the human body we were clothed in when we were kicked from Eden. The consequences of which are corruption and death. The key is to keep the spiritual body alive and well and hoping in salvation.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What some do not recognize is that there are two kinds of faith regarding Jesus.

The faith in Jesus doesn't end in freedom from sin.
The faith of Jesus in you DOES give us complete freedom from sin. This is when you are completely filled with the Spirit of Christ and have His nature. You become one. John 17.

Those who keep sinning but call themselves Christians are not safe from hell. Satan doesn't care if you believe IN Jesus and have faith IN Him, as long as you keep sinning and stay away from the faith OF Jesus. Then you are his. Romans 6:15-16. Yes, we all need to start with faith IN Jesus. That is the Holy Spirit drawing us, but we MUST be born again into the faith OF Jesus. His faith and nature in us.

To be accurate, your second kind of "faith" is what the Bible describes as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (Reference Romans 8) Paul the apostle says it this way, "you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you."

 

[CadyandZoe]

I'm a first century lady because I teach what was taught in the first century and not what was twisted after the apostles died.

They taught a true Christian can remain sinless from the time they are born again by not willfully committing a sin that is against their conscience. That doesn't make them perfect yet, but they DO live up to the knowledge they have. To become perfect one must mature in all the fruit of the Spirit. Peter gives some steps to follow to never stumble. 2 Peter 1:2-11.

If you are still a slave to sin confess that to Jesus so that He can fill you with His Spirit. You cannot stop sinning all by yourself. The desires have to be killed (crucified) and the Spirit of Christ can kill the old man nature, and create a new one that partakes of the divine nature of Jesus.

Romans 6:6-7

Did Jesus have desires. I think so. Did he kill his desires? I don't think so. Whatever sinlessness looks like, it has to look like Jesus, right?

 

[marks]

What do you believe is the old man?

The man born from Adam. The Adamic creature of the Adamic creation.

And the new man is the man born from God.

You don't seem to be associating it at all with our nature. What else do you think it is?

Do you realize "Nature" isn't used in the Bible the way it is so often used by us? We talk about a "sin nature", for instance, but the Bible does not.

Let me say that again, the Bible does not speak of a sin nature. What is speaks of is corrupt flesh.

Our "nature" just describes how we are. The "nature" of a rock is that it is hard, dense, unliving. Things have a "nature", but that's just a description of how and what they are. The fleshy man born from Adam's line has it's nature, as we'd call it, but the Bible just calls it corrupt.

The spiritual man born from God has it's nature, the Bible just calls it righteous. The Bible doesn't talk about a thing's nature, except in 1 Corinthians 15, in discussing the earthy and celestial, but still not in the terms that people generally do on this topic.

We were a corrupted being born from a corrupted humanity. Being born from God, we are now an uncorrupted being born from an incorruptible God. And we inhabit that same body, that remains corrupted, until it is transformed in our resurrection.

The body is just a shell, the puppet that the mind and emotions orchestrates.

The body has it's own brain, which is just as corrupt as the rest of the body.

Romans 8:5-14 KJV
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The "carnal mind", that is, the "fleshy mind". It doesn't exist apart from the brain. It's a product of our personhood housed in a electro-chemical brain. And in the case of mental illness, that brain is damaged, and the mind is likewise damaged, being a product of the brain.

But we have the mind of Christ - NOT a product of our own brains, but this new mind, our whole new life, comes from the Spirit of God. Mental illness does not affect the spiritual mind.

We are to put off the old man - the man born from Adam, corrupt - and put on the new man - the man born from God, righteous. The old man, who we were before Christ. The new man, who we are in Christ.

Stop living as though unregenerate, in the old ways, following the old patterns of the mind of the flesh. Start living a alive from the dead, following Christ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is why it is not necessary for our body to die yet to partake of the divine nature and be like Christ now.

This is why it is necessary to be crucifed to our flesh - separated from it - so we are not longer ruled by it's corruption. Having been separated from our flesh, we are joined to Christ. But we are still housed in our flesh.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

To be accurate, your second kind of "faith" is what the Bible describes as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (Reference Romans 8) Paul the apostle says it this way, "you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you."

Exactly.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Did Jesus have desires. I think so. Did he kill his desires? I don't think so. Whatever sinlessness looks like, it has to look like Jesus, right?

He had pure desires. Not carnal desires.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Do you realize "Nature" isn't used in the Bible the way it is so often used by us?

Yes it is.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Those born again have a divine nature. Carnality and lust go hand in hand. Our nature that produced "sins of the flesh" was a carnal nature. It has been nailed to the cross and crucified.

Are you STILL rallying for sin in a Christian? Marks, sin in a Christian is a fake Christian.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This is why it is necessary to be crucifed to our flesh - separated from it - so we are not longer ruled by it's corruption. Having been separated from our flesh, we are joined to Christ. But we are still housed in our flesh.

Much love!

Not the kind of flesh where sin abided. We have been cleansed of all unrighteousness. There is none left, even though we are in a body that is dying more day by day.

 

[marks]

Yes it is.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Those born again have a divine nature. Carnality and lust go hand in hand. Our nature that produced sins of the flesh was a carnal nature. It has been nailed to the cross and crucified.

The divine nature . . . yes. The nature of angels . . . yes. Natural branches, "by nature children of wrath", what nature? Whose nature? Their nature. Not . . . "sin nature". Sin's nature is evil. People's nature is sinful.

When you look for a "sin nature", to which to attribute the source of sin, This is how the Bible does not speak.

God has a nature. People have a nature. The flesh has its nature. A rock has it's nature. But there is no teaching or mention of a "sin nature".

The Adamic man is sinful by nature, being corrupted by sin. The man is that way, and is by that nature, being sinful that he is a child of wrath.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The divine nature . . . yes. The nature of angels . . . yes. Natural branches, "by nature children of wrath", what nature? Whose nature? Their nature. Not . . . "sin nature". Sin's nature is evil. People's nature is sinful.

When you look for a "sin nature", to which to attribute the source of sin, This is how the Bible does not speak.

God has a nature. People have a nature. The flesh has its nature. A rock has it's nature. But there is no teaching or mention of a "sin nature".

The Adamic man is sinful by nature, being corrupted by sin. The man is that way, and is by that nature, being sinful that he is a child of wrath.

Much love!

I agree. That is why Jesus came; they need to be born again. I have a divine nature. What type of nature do you claim as your own currently.

 

[marks]

I agree. That is why Jesus came; they need to be born again. I have a divine nature. What type of nature do you claim as your own currently.

You agree with what? I don't think you agreed with everything I said there.

Let me ask you . . . do you consider your body to be already redeemed?

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You agree with what? I don't think you agreed with everything I said there.

Let me ask you . . . do you consider your body to be already redeemed?

Much love!

As much of me where sin resided has been born again. I have been cleansed of all unrighteousness. My body doesn't have sin in it. It doesn't count regarding righteousness. My nature which has been redeemed controls what my body does.