Which OT laws should I obey?

[Grailhunter]

The NT authors quoted or alluded to the OT thousands of times in order to show that it supported what they were saying and to show that they hadn't departed from it. In Act 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything against OT Scripture to see if what Paul said was true, so agreement with OT Scripture is the standard by which we should accept the truth of what is written in the NT. In Romans 15:4, Paul said that OT Scripture was written for our instructions. In 2 Timothy 3:15-17, Paul referred to OT Scripture as being profitable for teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness that the man of God may be complete, throughly equipped to do every good work. Morality is based on God's character and God's character is eternal, so it did not change in the NT. Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience to it brings death and a curse, so choose life! So God's law is a ministry of life for those who choose to obey it and the fact that it is a ministry of death for those who refuse to submit to it is not a very good reason to refuse to submit to it. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

When you get down to it is more that just the Law.
It is the culture that the Law created that was hard hearted and cruel. A culture that made it right to have multiple wives and fathers could sell their daughters as sex slaves. And kill women that were raped because they were damaged goods.
It was the spirit of the Law that made it a curse on the Israelite culture and ultimately damned their souls.
There is no part of that culture and no part of that spirit and no part of that religious outlook that we want in Christianity.
It was the Law that had no spiritual connection because the Law separate humans from God….one of the reasons that the veil ripped in two when Yeshua died on the cross…..Christ brought us together.
Christianity….the New Covenant was the first Covenant that brought humans and God together as adopted sons and daughters of God, the family of God and provided salvation.
Galatians 4:21 “Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?”

 

[MatthewG]

In Romans 7:21-25, Paul delighted in obeying the Law of God and served it with his mind, but contested it with the law of sin, which held him captive, which was waging war against the law of his mind, which which he served with his flesh, so in Romans 8:1-4, Paul equated the Law of God with the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ by saying that it free us from the law of sin and death. After all the Law of God was given by God and the Spirt is God. Furthermore, in Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God.

Good information. I’m reminded of how the law is made for law breakers, which in turns leads us to the Lord Yeshua! To find rest!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Have you ever read Muslim or Hindu writings?
They have wisdom saying too….but you have to look at what it produces. The wisdom of a man that would have multiple wives or concubines or would sell their daughters as sex slave as far as I am concerned is the poetry of Satan.

I'm not going to judge God and criticize Him for giving Israel the Law. I begin with belief in the God who gave Israel the Law. We may debate why various things would make sense with a God of justice, but I'm far ahead of backing up to question God and His brand of justice.

Let me just ask you this: Would you curse the ring that binds you to your spouse? Would you do that even if you knew one day the both of you would be dead, and never again united in just that way?

I don't think so. Neither should we curse the Law, which bound Israel to God in Covenant for a very long time. Just because Israel failed in the time of Jesus does not mean they cannot return to God and be united with Him again.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm not going to judge God and criticize Him for giving Israel the Law. I begin with belief in the God who gave Israel the Law. We may debate why various things would make sense with a God of justice, but I'm far ahead of backing up to question God and His brand of justice.

Let me just ask you this: Would you curse the ring that binds you to your spouse? Would you do that even if you knew one day the both of you would be dead, and never again united in just that way?

I don't think so. Neither should we curse the Law, which bound Israel to God in Covenant for a very long time. Just because Israel failed in the time of Jesus does not mean they cannot return to God and be united with Him again.

Smart, we should not Judge God on the Old Testament. The reason?….like I always say….if we were transported back in that time it would seem like an alien world and a lot of circumstances gets lost in the storyline. Why did God condone those things? We will never know.

But still non of it belongs in Christianity….not as a religion.....not as a guide on how to apply Christianity….By Christian standards the spirit of the Mosaic Laws are despicable. The morals in the New Testament are not lacking in anything that would justify looking to the Old Testament as a moral guide.

 

[MatthewG]

Smart, we should not Judge God on the Old Testament. The reason?….like I always say….if we were transported back in that time it would seem like an alien world and a lot of circumstances gets lost in the storyline. Why did God condone those things? We will never know.

But still non of it belongs in Christianity….not as a religion.....not as a guide on how to apply Christianity….By Christian standards the spirit of the Mosaic Laws are despicable. The morals in the New Testament are not lacking in anything that would justify looking to the Old Testament as a moral guide.

I attest and see the Old Testament written for us to see hope, in a God who hears those who trust in Him, and seek him in spirit and truth. Not to be a law book that must be applied. There are pictures and types of Christ within those pages which speak of Him.

 

[Soyeong]

Good information. I’m reminded of how the law is made for law breakers, which in turns leads us to the Lord Yeshua! To find rest!

If someone says that the law is only for the unrighteous in order to justify their freedom to live unrighteously, then they thereby become someone that God's law is for. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the law leads us to him because it is God's instructions for how to know him. In other obeying God's word through following the example of God's word made flesh is the way to know him.

 

[MatthewG]

If someone says that the law is only for the unrighteous in order to justify their freedom to live unrighteously, then they thereby become someone that God's law is for. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the law leads us to him because it is God's instructions for how to know him. In other obeying God's word through following the example of God's word made flesh is the way to know him.

Reminds me of Jesus and his dispute with the Jewish leaders whom had the Old Testament Scriptures, in how they also speak of him. Which one can find pictures and types of Christ within the Old Testament.

”Jesus was doing all this on the Sabbath day. So these Jews began trying to make him stop. But he said to them, “My Father never stops working, and so I work too.” This made them even more determined to kill him. They thought it was bad enough that he was breaking the law about the Sabbath day. And now he was saying that God is his Father, making himself equal with God!

But Jesus answered, “I assure you that the Son can do nothing alone. He does only what he sees his Father doing. The Son does the same things that the Father does. The Father loves the Son and shows him everything he does. This man was healed.

But the Father will show the Son greater things than this to do. Then you will all be amazed. The Father raises the dead and gives them life. In the same way, the Son gives life to those he wants to. “Also, the Father judges no one. He has given the Son power to do all the judging. God did this so that all people will respect the Son the same as they respect the Father. Anyone who does not respect the Son does not respect the Father.

He is the one who sent the Son. “I assure you, anyone who hears what I say and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life. They will not be judged guilty. They have already left death and have entered into life. Believe me, an important time is coming. That time is already here. People who are dead will hear the voice of the Son of God. And those who listen will live. Life comes from the Father himself. So the Father has also allowed the Son to give life. And the Father has given him the power to judge all people because he is the Son of Man. “Don’t be surprised at this.

A time is coming when all people who are dead and in their graves will hear his voice. Then they will come out of their graves. Those who did good in this life will rise and have eternal life. But those who did evil will rise to be judged guilty. “I can do nothing alone. I judge only the way I am told.

And my judgment is right, because I am not trying to please myself. I want only to please the one who sent me. “If I tell people about myself, they cannot be sure that what I say is true. But there is someone else who tells people about me, and I know that what he says about me is true. “You sent men to John, and he told you what is true.

I don’t need anyone to tell people about me, but I remind you of what John said so that you can be saved.

John was like a lamp that burned and gave light, and you were happy to enjoy his light for a while. “But I have a proof about myself that is greater than anything John said. The things I do are my proof. These are what my Father gave me to do.

They show that the Father sent me. And the Father who sent me has given proof about me himself. But you have never heard his voice. You have never seen what he looks like.

The Father’s teaching does not live in you, because you don’t believe in the one the Father sent. You carefully study the Scriptures. You think that they give you eternal life. These same Scriptures tell about me!“
‭‭John‬ ‭5‬:‭16‬-‭39‬ ‭ERV‬‬

 

[Soyeong]

I attest and see the Old Testament written for us to see hope, in a God who hears those who trust in Him, and seek him in spirit and truth. Not to be a law book that must be applied. There are pictures and types of Christ within those pages which speak of Him.

In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our hearts to correctly divide between right and wrong through obeying His instructions in all of our ways and He will make our way straight. It is contradictory to think that we should trust in God, but not in His instructions. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so obeying it is the way to seek God in spirit and in truth.

Reminds me of Jesus and his dispute with the Jewish leaders whom had the Old Testament Scriptures, in how they also speak of him. Which one can find pictures and types of Christ within the Old Testament.

”Jesus was doing all this on the Sabbath day. So these Jews began trying to make him stop. But he said to them, “My Father never stops working, and so I work too.” This made them even more determined to kill him. They thought it was bad enough that he was breaking the law about the Sabbath day. And now he was saying that God is his Father, making himself equal with God!

But Jesus answered, “I assure you that the Son can do nothing alone. He does only what he sees his Father doing. The Son does the same things that the Father does. The Father loves the Son and shows him everything he does. This man was healed.

But the Father will show the Son greater things than this to do. Then you will all be amazed. The Father raises the dead and gives them life. In the same way, the Son gives life to those he wants to. “Also, the Father judges no one. He has given the Son power to do all the judging. God did this so that all people will respect the Son the same as they respect the Father. Anyone who does not respect the Son does not respect the Father.

He is the one who sent the Son. “I assure you, anyone who hears what I say and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life. They will not be judged guilty. They have already left death and have entered into life. Believe me, an important time is coming. That time is already here. People who are dead will hear the voice of the Son of God. And those who listen will live. Life comes from the Father himself. So the Father has also allowed the Son to give life. And the Father has given him the power to judge all people because he is the Son of Man. “Don’t be surprised at this.

A time is coming when all people who are dead and in their graves will hear his voice. Then they will come out of their graves. Those who did good in this life will rise and have eternal life. But those who did evil will rise to be judged guilty. “I can do nothing alone. I judge only the way I am told.

And my judgment is right, because I am not trying to please myself. I want only to please the one who sent me. “If I tell people about myself, they cannot be sure that what I say is true. But there is someone else who tells people about me, and I know that what he says about me is true. “You sent men to John, and he told you what is true.

I don’t need anyone to tell people about me, but I remind you of what John said so that you can be saved.

John was like a lamp that burned and gave light, and you were happy to enjoy his light for a while. “But I have a proof about myself that is greater than anything John said. The things I do are my proof. These are what my Father gave me to do.

They show that the Father sent me. And the Father who sent me has given proof about me himself. But you have never heard his voice. You have never seen what he looks like.

The Father’s teaching does not live in you, because you don’t believe in the one the Father sent. You carefully study the Scriptures. You think that they give you eternal life. These same Scriptures tell about me!“
‭‭John‬ ‭5‬:‭16‬-‭39‬ ‭ERV‬‬

In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law, which is also in accordance with many other verses, such as Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Deuteronomy 32:46-47, Proverbs 3:18, Proverbs 6:23, Matthew 19:17, Romans 2:6-7, Romans 6:19-23, Hebrews 5:9, and Revelation 22:14. So eternal life can be found in Scriptures and the Pharisees were correct to search for it there, but they needed to recognize that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Jesus and to come into a relationship with him for eternal life. We should live in a way that testifies about how to know Jesus by obeying Scripture rather than a way that bears false witness against him by refusing to obey it.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Smart, we should not Judge God on the Old Testament. The reason?….like I always say….if we were transported back in that time it would seem like an alien world and a lot of circumstances gets lost in the storyline. Why did God condone those things? We will never know.

But still non of it belongs in Christianity….not as a religion.....not as a guide on how to apply Christianity….By Christian standards the spirit of the Mosaic Laws are despicable. The morals in the New Testament are not lacking in anything that would justify looking to the Old Testament as a moral guide.

No, it's not that hard to understand the OT in light of the NT. You just want to judge things to make yourself look better than the God of the OT. Go follow Marcion, the heretic.

 

[MatthewG]

In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our hearts to correctly divide between right and wrong through obeying His instructions in all of our ways and He will make our way straight. It is contradictory to think that we should trust in God, but not in His instructions. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so obeying it is the way to seek God in spirit and in truth.



In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law, which is also in accordance with many other verses, such as Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Deuteronomy 32:46-47, Proverbs 3:18, Proverbs 6:23, Matthew 19:17, Romans 2:6-7, Romans 6:19-23, Hebrews 5:9, and Revelation 22:14. So eternal life can be found in Scriptures and the Pharisees were correct to search for it there, but they needed to recognize that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Jesus and to come into a relationship with him for eternal life. We should live in a way that testifies about how to know Jesus by obeying Scripture rather than a way that bears false witness against him by refusing to obey it.

Not so sure, I would go as far as to say obey “scripture” persay, but most certainly, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Spirit (it’s God talking to us in nudges on the heart, to do his will, rather than our own.)The Old Testament has many benefits to a person who studies it, especially in the light of the Lord Jesus.


”That is, the law was given to us through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.“
‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭17‬ ‭ERV‬‬

”This is the teaching you have heard from the beginning: We must love each other. Don’t be like Cain. He belonged to the Evil One. Cain killed his brother.

But why did he kill him? Because what Cain did was evil, and what his brother did was good. Brothers and sisters, don’t be surprised when the people of this world hate you.

We know that we have left death and have come into life. We know this because we love each other as brothers and sisters.

Anyone who does not love is still in death. Anyone who hates a fellow believer is a murderer. And you know that no murderer has eternal life.

This is how we know what real love is: Jesus gave his life for us. So we should give our lives for each other as brothers and sisters.

Suppose a believer who is rich enough to have all the necessities of life sees a fellow believer who is poor and does not have even basic needs.

What if the rich believer does not help the poor one?

Then it is clear that God’s love is not in that person’s heart. My children, our love should not be only words and talk. No, our love must be real. We must show our love by the things we do. That’s how we know we belong to the way of truth. And when our hearts make us feel guilty, we can still have peace before God, because God is greater than our hearts. He knows everything.

My dear friends, if we don’t feel that we are doing wrong, we can be without fear when we come to God. And God gives us what we ask for. We receive it because we obey God’s commands and do what pleases him.

This is what God commands: that we believe in his Son Jesus Christ, and that we love each other as he commanded.

All who obey God’s commands live in God. And God lives in them. How do we know that God lives in us? We know because of the Spirit he gave us.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3‬:‭11‬-‭24‬ ‭ERV‬‬

 

[Soyeong]

If you believe this it is because you do know or understand the Mosaic Law.

Indeed, I believe that because I do know and understand the Mosaic Law. Do you affirm or deny the truth of Deuteronomy 30:11-20 and Romans 10:5-8?

When you get down to it is more that just the Law.
It is the culture that the Law created that was hard hearted and cruel. A culture that made it right to have multiple wives and fathers could sell their daughters as sex slaves. And kill women that were raped because they were damaged goods.
It was the spirit of the Law that made it a curse on the Israelite culture and ultimately damned their souls.
There is no part of that culture and no part of that spirit and no part of that religious outlook that we want in Christianity.
It was the Law that had no spiritual connection because the Law separate humans from God….one of the reasons that the veil ripped in two when Yeshua died on the cross…..Christ brought us together.
Christianity….the New Covenant was the first Covenant that brought humans and God together as adopted sons and daughters of God, the family of God and provided salvation.
Galatians 4:21 “Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?”

If you believe this it is because you do not know or understand the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Covenant is often described in terms as being a marriage between God and Israel, so the purpose of the Mosaic Law was to teach how to know God, not to separate us from Him. The Mosaic Law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to think that God's word separates us while thinking that God's word made flesh joins us. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God. It shouldn't make sense to you to interpret Galatians was warning us against obeying God's word.

 

[Grailhunter]

Indeed, I believe that because I do know and understand the Mosaic Law. Do you affirm or deny the truth of Deuteronomy 30:11-20 and Romans 10:5-8?

Deuteronomy 30:11-20
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will asc

Indeed, I believe that because I do know and understand the Mosaic Law. Do you affirm or deny the truth of Deuteronomy 30:11-20 and Romans 10:5-8?


If you believe this it is because you do not know or understand the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Covenant is often described in terms as being a marriage between God and Israel, so the purpose of the Mosaic Law was to teach how to know God, not to separate us from Him. The Mosaic Law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to think that God's word separates us while thinking that God's word made flesh joins us. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God. It shouldn't make sense to you to interpret Galatians was warning us against obeying God's word.

end into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Romans 10:5-8
5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

Confirmed

the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts.

Could not be further from the truth. The Apostles Peter was married do think he was selling his daughters as sex slaves?

those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God.

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4

 

[Grailhunter]

No, it's not that hard to understand the OT in light of the NT. You just want to judge things to make yourself look better than the God of the OT. Go follow Marcion, the heretic.

The best way to disqualify the Old Covenant and the Mosaic Law as having the Christian spirit or morals is just quote it. Killing raped women? Does that sound like Christ?

 

[Randy Kluth]

The best way to disqualify the Old Covenant and the Mosaic Law as having the Christian spirit or morals is just quote it. Killing raped women? Does that sound like Christ?

What passage of the Bible are you referring to? Or, are you just making this up?

I'm assuming you're referring to God wanting to "murder" raped women? In that case, it is impossible, since God prohibited people from murder. He could hardly do Himself what He told others was immoral.

 

[Grailhunter]

What passage of the Bible are you referring to? Or, are you just making this up?

I'm assuming you're referring to God wanting to "murder" raped women? In that case, it is impossible, since God prohibited people from murder. He could hardly do Himself what He told others was immoral.

The first part deals with adultery and then with rape in the city or out in the country and the rape of a uncommited lady.

Deuteronomy 22
22 “If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.

23 “If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.

28 “If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.

Besides this you can see that women were treated as property.

 

[Soyeong]

Deuteronomy 30:11-20
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will asc


end into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Romans 10:5-8
5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

Confirmed

So then in accordance with those verses, do you think that we should choose life and a blessing by obeying the Mosaic Law or death and a curse by not obeying it?

Could not be further from the truth. The Apostles Peter was married do think he was selling his daughters as sex slaves?

So then you deny the truth of Jeremiah 31:33. The Bible does not support selling our daughters as sex slaves.

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4

So then do you think that Galatians 5:4 contradicts 1 John 3:4-10? I notably said that those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God in accordance with 1 John 3:4-10, not that we earn our righteousness as the result of having first obey works of the law. All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and this is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from it. It would again be absurd to interpret that as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace.

 

[Grailhunter]

So then in accordance with those verses, do you think that we should choose life and a blessing by obeying the Mosaic Law or death and a curse by not obeying it?

Well Paul said what it meant....“Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

So then you deny the truth of Jeremiah 31:33. The Bible does not support selling our daughters as sex slaves.

The Mosaic Law allowed it and regulated fathers selling their daughters as concubines.

Exodus 21
7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

Do I have to keep rubbing your nose in it or can you actually go study the Mosaic Law?

So then do you think that Galatians 5:4 contradicts 1 John 3:4-10?

NO

So then in accordance with those verses, do you think that we should choose life and a blessing by obeying the Mosaic Law or death and a curse by not obeying it?


So then you deny the truth of Jeremiah 31:33. The Bible does not support selling our daughters as sex slaves.


So then do you think that Galatians 5:4 contradicts 1 John 3:4-10? I notably said that those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God in accordance with 1 John 3:4-10, not that we earn our righteousness as the result of having first obey works of the law. All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and this is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from it. It would again be absurd to interpret that as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace.

Most of the New Testament is about Christians not being under the Law.

And there are scriptures criticizing people that look to the Law.

And the storyline where Judaizers were harassing Paul’s ministry make that clear. Then you have the ruling of the meeting in Jerusalem that did not included the Law.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The first part deals with adultery and then with rape in the city or out in the country and the rape of a uncommited lady.

Deuteronomy 22
22 “If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.

23 “If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.

28 “If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.

Besides this you can see that women were treated as property.

I'd hate to be in your shoes, thinking you're better than God! Nothing in these situations remotely is akin to what you suggested unless you just don't understand what is being said.

The women are not being treated as material objects, but as people committed to marrying someone. If the person consents to be raped, the fact she considers herself "raped" is no excuse for committing adultery, or breaking her pledge, to her future husband. Promises are viewed as extremely serious by God, particularly when it is a lifetime commitment to another family.

A couple conspiring to commit adultery demonstrates contempt for God's prohibition against adultery. It is not just an individual sin, but a conspiracy to sin, and an act of intentional sedition against God's theocratic system.

A person who rapes someone who is not engaged, and the victim does not protest her rape, causes the rapist to commit himself to the rape victim, which is a lifetime commitment, involving his wealth and property, committing to another family.

In the act of consenting to being raped the couple are in effect committing to marriage. A consensual sexual act is, to God, an act of marital unification. It may be that the couple are not discovered, or it may be that the rapist is actually a Gentile outside of Jewish Law committing a violent act when the woman is not willing to marry the man. In that case, the rapist may, perhaps, be put to death.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'd hate to be in your shoes, thinking you're better than God! Nothing in these situations remotely is akin to what you suggested unless you just don't understand what is being said.

The women are not being treated as material objects, but as people committed to marrying someone. If the person consents to be raped, the fact she considers herself "raped" is no excuse for committing adultery, or breaking her pledge, to her future husband. Promises are viewed as extremely serious by God, particularly when it is a lifetime commitment to another family.

A couple conspiring to commit adultery demonstrates contempt for God's prohibition against adultery. It is not just an individual sin, but a conspiracy to sin, and an act of intentional sedition against God's theocratic system.

A person who rapes someone who is not engaged, and the victim does not protest her rape, causes the rapist to commit himself to the rape victim, which is a lifetime commitment, involving his wealth and property, committing to another family.

In the act of consenting to being raped the couple are in effect committing to marriage. A consensual sexual act is, to God, an act of marital unification. It may be that the couple are not discovered, or it may be that the rapist is actually a Gentile outside of Jewish Law committing a violent act when the woman is not willing to marry the man. In that case, the rapist may, perhaps, be put to death.

The neat thing about this is that the scriptures speak for themselves. And as I said the easiest way to prove that the Old Testament scriptures do not have the character of Christianity or pertain to Christians is to just quote them, they disqualify themselves.

Now you can attempt to twist the scriptures with your lies but now that they are posted people can read them and see what they actually mean.

 

[Bob Estey]

Paul gave us some guidelines in Colossians 2:


Further, the indwelling Spirit will show us. Hebrews 10:


"my laws" refers to the Paraclete or Holy Spirit of God. The putting is fulfilled when the Spirit/Paraclete dwells in my conscience.

Rom 7:


That was before. Now comes the after:


Galatians 5:


Thayer's Greek Lexicon for the Greek word paraclete:


Study God's commandments daily. Grow in the Spirit. Let your conscience and the peace of the Paraclete guide you in your daily walk.

See also Circumcision is nothing: keeping God’s COMMANDS is what counts

The Old Testament contains decrees, statutes, ordinances, testimonies, and commandments. The New Testament contains two "great commandments" (Matthew 22:34-40). I would concentrate on the two great commandments and the ten commandments.