Who Can Be Saved?? Anyone, Everyone, All, Who so ever calls on the Name of the Lord!!

[GodsGrace]

I know. However, "belief" alone isn't enough if it is not accompanied by "action" as you describe below. Real "faith" imo is belief coupled with action. That is faith.

Belief or action without being accompanied by the other is worthless.

Concur. Which raises questions as to exactly what the "works" or "actions" entail.

Even you and I, while on the surface we concur here, there is a vast gulf between us at the core. That is not to pick on you, or even to imply that you are wrong. You are upon a path, you must go as you are led. You are not my servant, who am I to judge. I just enjoy asking questions now and then.

To be honest, I look forward to seeing where you are upon your path in a few years.
Have you ever noticed how oft Eph 2:8-9 is quoted, but v10 is left out.

Indubitably, as you should be.

<small snip>

Thus, as stated above, it is belief coupled with action, and thus your faith is made complete. James 2.

Sure.
Believe is an action word.
If it's studied just a little bit (since I'm not into Greek) one would find that believe and obey are intertwined.

When you believe the escalator will get you to the top, you MOVE and get on it. You have faith that it'll get you there. And the store owner used grace to get the thing installed in the first place.

So you bring up two points:

1. What are works?
Interesting how we debate it and we may not even have the same understanding.

We all work. From the moment we wake up.
Before we knew God we were just working.
After we know God we work to His glory. What we do we do for Him.
It could be anything.

Work could also be NOT sinning. For instance, someone may say something to which you have a sharp reply that would start an arguement. Before you would have just made your statement, now you might hold back and glorify God with your quietness.

Or work could be something specific God asks you to do.
Like be a missionary.
Sing in the choir.
Clean up the church.
Put on a Christian play.
etc.

This is how I understand works. So it's a mystery to me how some Christians say we do not need to do works.

2. You say on the surface we agree but are different at the core.
I highlighted your statement above.

HOW are we different? I don't see it.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace See what I mean.

I know.
Funny thing is...
He does plenty of 2:10

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What does that mean?

That's what I am asking another member Richard.
By the way, are you insinuating from your post above that I don't believe in the need to serve God with good works?

 

[Jun2u]

The problem with the title of this thread is that NO ONE will believe. Man is sold out to his sins and he is a servant to Satan.

Below is God’s assessment of the human race.

Romans 3:10-12:

10 As it is written, There is none righteous no, not one.
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Now tell me who will believe?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Richard_oti]

By the way, are you insinuating from your post above that I don't believe in the need to serve God with good works?

Not at all. It was merely the demonstration of a point. The vast multitude of times that people quote Eph 2:8-9: They leave out / off v10 in the quote.

But since you ask, what in your opinion was prepared aforetime that we should walk in them?

 

[Richard_oti]

I know.
Funny thing is...
He does plenty of 2:10

I don't doubt it. But I couldn't resist the temptation seeing as I had just mentioned that to you. And as I am sure that you have also noticed, that when Eph 2:8-9 are quoted, v10 is left out and not even mentioned or considered along with the response.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Not at all. It was merely the demonstration of a point. The vast multitude of times that people quote Eph 2:8-9: They leave out / off v10 in the quote.

But since you ask, what in your opinion was prepared aforetime that we should walk in them?

Ephesians 2:6-7;
"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness in us in Christ Jesus".

Now these two verses play an integral part in understanding verses 8-10.
Yet how often are they quoted along with 8-10?

The question becomes "can a verse be used by itself to make a point?
Well, the Roman road to salvation wouldn't exist if it were impossible to make a point with out use of the verses around it as well.
It can be done if used correctly.
Ephesians 2:8-9; can be used to make a point without the use of the verses around it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's salvation by works.
We are saved by grace.
You by-pass grace and go right to believe.
Believe is meaningless without grace.
Grace does not fit in with what you say.
Many people believe in many things, but grace only comes from God.

And faith without works id DEAD (James 2:14-26).
To believe is MUCH more than intellectual assent.

The Biblical prescription for belief is:
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- We must suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

In other words - there is no believing without obeying . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The problem with the title of this thread is that NO ONE will believe. Man is sold out to his sins and he is a servant to Satan.

Below is God’s assessment of the human race.

Romans 3:10-12:

10 As it is written, There is none righteous no, not one.
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Now tell me who will believe?

To God Be The Glory

Actually - Romans 3:10-12 is refencing Psalms 14:1, which says:
The FOOL says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
there is none who does good.

However, in Verse 5, we read that God keeps company with the RIGHTEOUS.

 

[Jun2u]

Actually - Romans 3:10-12 is refencing Psalms 14:1, which says:
The FOOL says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
there is none who does good.

However, in Verse 5, we read that God keeps company with the RIGHTEOUS.

True. But before they became righteous they were FOOLS as Verse 3, and as in Romans 3.

Man by nature is a sinner and his heart is desperately wicked as assessed by God. This is why we so desperately need a savior!

No one will call upon the name of the Lord unless God intervenes in his life.

To God Be The Glory

 

[BreadOfLife]

True. But before they became righteous they were FOOLS as Verse 3, and as in Romans 3.

Man by nature is a sinner and his heart is desperately wicked as assessed by God. This is why we so desperately need a savior!

No one will call upon the name of the Lord unless God intervenes in his life.

To God Be The Glory

Sure - but YOU said:
"The problem with the title of this thread is that NO ONE will believe. Man is sold out to his sins and he is a servant to Satan."

That's not true.
We will believe when given the grace to believe.

Also - Psalm 14 and Romans 3 are using inclusive language and do not account for everybody.
If this were the case, you would have to include babies and toddlers. You would also have to include severely retarded people who don't have full use of their faculties.
You would have to include Jesus - who, while being God, was also 100% human.

 

[Jun2u]

Sure - but YOU said:
"The problem with the title of this thread is that NO ONE will believe. Man is sold out to his sins and he is a servant to Satan."

That's not true.
We will believe when given the grace to believe.

Also - Psalm 14 and Romans 3 are using inclusive language and do not account for everybody.
If this were the case, you would have to include babies and toddlers. You would also have to include severely retarded people who don't have full use of their faculties.
You would have to include Jesus - who, while being God, was also 100% human.

Why do you say stupid things? Didn't you know that although Jesus was 100% man Scripture says He is without sin?!

Really? Are you saying you know more than God? Are you saying the terms that God used No, Not One in Psalms 14 and Romans 3 does not mean each and every one? Now I heard everything!

You said:
If this were the case, you would have to include babies and toddlers

Most definitely. Babies and toddlers are not exempt

Psalm 58:3-4 reads:
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born speaking lies;
their poison is like a poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear

You also said:
You would also have to include severely retarded people who don't have full use of their faculties.

Salvation is God's program! God declared, "the wages of sin is death" what He declares He will do. He is the same today, yesterday, and for ever.
Don't you think God knows about the severely retarded? If God wants to save anyone regardless of physical situation and condition, He will save them!

Now you have learned about babies and toddlers how evil they are in God's sight like any body else! You're welcome.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Richard_oti]

But since you ask, what in your opinion was prepared aforetime that we should walk in them?

<snip>
The question becomes "can a verse be used by itself to make a point?
Well, the Roman road to salvation wouldn't exist if it were impossible to make a point with out use of the verses around it as well.
It can be done if used correctly.
Ephesians 2:8-9; can be used to make a point without the use of the verses around it.

Indeed it can be done if used correctly. It can also be done in a manner that makes it look as if it means something different than it does in full context. So what do you think was prepared aforetime to be walked in?

 

[amadeus]

Why do you say stupid things? Didn't you know that although Jesus was 100% man Scripture says He is without sin?!

Really? Are you saying you know more than God? Are you saying the terms that God used No, Not One in Psalms 14 and Romans 3 does not mean each and every one? Now I heard everything!

You said:
If this were the case, you would have to include babies and toddlers

Most definitely. Babies and toddlers are not exempt

Psalm 58:3-4 reads:
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born speaking lies;
their poison is like a poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear

You also said:
You would also have to include severely retarded people who don't have full use of their faculties.

Salvation is God's program! God declared, "the wages of sin is death" what He declares He will do. He is the same today, yesterday, and for ever.
Don't you think God knows about the severely retarded? If God wants to save anyone regardless of physical situation and condition, He will save them!

Now you have learned about babies and toddlers how evil they are in God's sight like any body else! You're welcome.

To God Be The Glory

Indeed, for me the key to these troubled areas is what exactly Life is and what is death. All of mankind since Adam and Even, except for Jesus, were effectively born dead in the eyes of God. God sent Jesus so that Life could be obtained, but something must be done to obtain it. Anyone who is really "born again" [or "born from above"] has obtained Life, but did they not each do what Jesus said?

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:26

More than mouthing a confession of faith with the lips is necessary.

And as you also said, the babies and severely retarded are include for they were also "born dead". I have my own answer for them, but that is not the focus here at the moment.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why do you say stupid things? Didn't you know that although Jesus was 100% man Scripture says He is without sin?!

Really? Are you saying you know more than God? Are you saying the terms that God used No, Not One in Psalms 14 and Romans 3 does not mean each and every one? Now I heard everything!

You said:
If this were the case, you would have to include babies and toddlers

Most definitely. Babies and toddlers are not exempt

Psalm 58:3-4 reads:
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born speaking lies;
their poison is like a poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear

You also said:
You would also have to include severely retarded people who don't have full use of their faculties.

Salvation is God's program! God declared, "the wages of sin is death" what He declares He will do. He is the same today, yesterday, and for ever.
Don't you think God knows about the severely retarded? If God wants to save anyone regardless of physical situation and condition, He will save them!

Now you have learned about babies and toddlers how evil they are in God's sight like any body else! You're welcome.

To God Be The Glory

What I said is not "stupid". I was holding YOU accountable for what YOU said.
The entire premise of your original remark that "NO ONE" will believe is what is stupid.

As for Psalms 14 and Romans 3 - they are using inclusive language.
You are a Scriptural literalist and, therefore, blind to what it is saying.

Matt. 2:3 says that when Herod heard about Jesus, he was "disturbed, and ALL Jerusalem with him."
Does this mean that EVERY single person in Jerusalem was "disturbed"?? No - because MOST of them had no idea. When you put the same limitations on Psalms 14 and Romans 3, then you HAVE to include Jesus because He was a man.

As for babies, toddlers and the severely retarded - how do YOU know they are culpable for having committed sin??
In John 9:41, Jesus told the Pharisees:
"If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."
\
Psalm 58:3-4 is about Original Sin and a person proclivity toward sin - not the actual sinning of infants.
The fact that YOU can sit there and actually claim that babies sin shows your ignorance of Scripture.

 

[Jun2u]

Indeed, for me the key to these troubled areas is what exactly Life is and what is death. All of mankind since Adam and Even, except for Jesus, were effectively born dead in the eyes of God. God sent Jesus so that Life could be obtained, but something must be done to obtain it. Anyone who is really "born again" [or "born from above"] has obtained Life, but did they not each do what Jesus said?

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:26

More than mouthing a confession of faith with the lips is necessary.

And as you also said, the babies and severely retarded are include for they were also "born dead". I have my own answer for them, but that is not the focus here at the moment.

The scripture references you offered are fundamental principles God laid out by which someone can be saved, however; in and of himself, man will never believe, unless God intervenes in his life!

John 14:6 reads:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 6:44:
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:37:
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 17:1
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture. might be fulfilled.

Who are these in John 6:37; 17:3 that the Father gave to Jesus: All the totality of all believers.

Below is a beautiful illustration of what salvation is according to God, in the raising of Lazarus. When Jesus arrived at the tomb (Lazarus was very dead for four days and he stunk), Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “LAZARUS COME FORTH!”

Can Lazarus hear Jesus’ command to come forth? No, it was impossible, he was dead, no life in him. But Lazarus did come forth, what had to have happened? Jesus had to go into the tomb and give him life.

As Lazarus was physically dead, so are we spiritually dead and can't respond to believe in Jesus, until we became saved.
As Lazarus was physically blind, so are we spiritually blind to every aspect of the Gospel until we became saved.
As Lazarus was physically deaf so are we spiritually dull in hearing the Gospel, until we became saved.
As Lazarus was physically dumb, so are we spiritually dumb, and cannot declare the word of God, until we became saved.

All of the above were possible for the believers because of the grace God poured out lavishly to His beloved people.

Most certainly, the last paragraph of your post is valid. This statement about babies and severely retarded came from a Catholic, and should be addressed, even if you have a different perception regarding this issue.

I, too, would like to know what you have to say on the matter of babies and mentally ill, for this is the only way we can learn from each other.

To God Be The Glory

 

[amadeus]

Most certainly, the last paragraph of your post is valid. This statement about babies and severely retarded came from a Catholic, and should be addressed, even if you have a different perception regarding this issue.

I, too, would like to know what you have to say on the matter of babies and mentally ill, for this is the only way we can learn from each other.

Very simply, I believe that children or others who never reach the point where they are accountable before natural death go the way of their parents. This is one reason why parents should be very careful how they bring up their children. The shadow of this is seen thoughout the OT and as it was then it is now insofar God is concerned. God is no respecter of persons. How many young children among the Amalekites were spared when King Saul killed them all?

I must add here that I am also an annihilationist meaning that there is no place of eternal torment for such children. They simply die physically. If their parents never had spiritual Life, the Life which Jesus is, neither did the young children.

 

[bbyrd009]

Sure.
Believe is an action word.
If it's studied just a little bit (since I'm not into Greek) one would find that believe and obey are intertwined.

note how this is contested in the world ceaselessly, every day though. "I believe in music," "You need to believe in yourself," etc, the emphasis suggests to us every time we hear the word now that "belief in" is strictly an opinion. "Believers" might even be heard asking other believers if they believe in angels or whatever, stuff like that.