Who Created or Made a Sin Nature?

[ScottA]

OK, I'm dense because it isn't obvious to me. Who told RD babies are innocent if it isn't in scripture?

Conversely, where is the exact words of God that states in utero babies are sinners?

The voices are only good and evil.

As for the scriptures, death is the proof--not that babes have sinned, but because they too have been condemned to death by the sin of Adam:

Ecclesiastes 9:3
This is an evil in all that is done under the sun: that one thing happens to all. Truly the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil; madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Romans 5:17
For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 11:32
For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
​

 

[robert derrick]

I replied with a quote of what you said. Now you don't know what you wrote?

Never mind...you have already said enough.

If you are talking about babes being innocent, that was someone else I quoted, which I agree with.

And if that is what you are referring to, then once again you fly off the handle and make it into something ridiculous, that it is not.

You mischaracterize the teaching on purpose.

So let me explain this to you as to a mischievous little child: Not being born a sinner. (Stop) Does not mean men don't become sinners. (Stop) And so sinners become in need of forgiveness and deliverance of the Savior (Stop) Because they have sinned (Stop) Not because Christ made them that way by birth (Stop).

I.e. Sin only becomes a problem when any soul sins, which only first begins when we learn to know and choose to do good or evil.

Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to thy mercy remember thou me for thy goodness' sake, O LORD.

For the children of Israel and the children of Judah have only done evil before me from their youth.

Yes, I am discouraging you from wasting my time with foolishly accusative questions.

And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.

 

[bbyrd009]

You misunderstand.

as long as you not only characterize but insist upon toddlers being evil, you got that right; i misunderstand!

humility with evil now

 

[ScottA]

If you are talking about babes being innocent, that was someone else I quoted, which I agree with.

And if that is what you are referring to, then once again you fly off the handle and make it into something ridiculous, that it is not.

You mischaracterize the teaching on purpose.

So let me explain this to you as to a mischievous little child: Not being born a sinner. (Stop) Does not mean men don't become sinners. (Stop) And so sinners become in need of forgiveness and deliverance of the Savior (Stop) Because they have sinned (Stop) Not because Christ made them that way by birth (Stop).

I.e. Sin only becomes a problem when any soul sins, which only first begins when we learn to know and choose to do good or evil.

Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to thy mercy remember thou me for thy goodness' sake, O LORD.

For the children of Israel and the children of Judah have only done evil before me from their youth.

Yes, I am discouraging you from wasting my time with foolishly accusative questions.

And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.

No...I will explain to you as a deceitful poster. Apparently you deleted you post that I quoted--likely because I was correct. Gotcha! Good thing I quoted you. It's all there in post #188.

 

[ScottA]

as long as you not only characterize but insist upon toddlers being evil, you got that right; i misunderstand!

humility with evil now

You misunderstood Jesus, then me quoting Jesus, then Jesus again. Then you roll your eyes. Wow!

Fruit.​

I think that says it all.

 

[bbyrd009]

You misunderstood Jesus, then me quoting Jesus, then Jesus again

ill let you tell it Scott, since you seem so convinced that you know everything

 

[robert derrick]

No...I will explain to you as a deceitful poster. Apparently you deleted you post that I quoted--likely because I was correct. Gotcha! Good thing I quoted you. It's all there in post #188.

I've been going about this all wrong. I finally understand now how to answer obvious foolishness:

You are exactly right. Sin has never been a problem with man, so we don't need a Savior.

That's what I've been getting at along, and now you've forced it out of me by sheer force of will.

Thanks.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Well That Escalated Quickly​

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

If you would read that more carefully you'd have seen it refers to a particular kind of people. Not all people.

Romans 3:10-12 was written in conjunction with Psalms 58:3-7 so as to create a bigger picture!!!

Or, didn't you know that everything in the Bible, inter-relates? Obviously not, or you wouldn't have made a remark like you made above.

To God B The Glory

 

[bbyrd009]

gee, i wonder who made a sin nature
lol

 

[bbyrd009]

The voices are only good and evil.

As for the scriptures, death is the proof--not that babes have sinned, but because they too have been condemned to death by the sin of Adam:

Ecclesiastes 9:3
This is an evil in all that is done under the sun: that one thing happens to all. Truly the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil; madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Romans 5:17
For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 11:32
For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
​

i mean…how is it that you have not considered the possibility, nay, the extreme likelihood, that the death being discussed is only a spiritual one? How many times have you literally died after committing a sin? Is your devotion to your self and its possible immortality so complete that the thought just cannot be entertained, Scott? Do you imagine that you appear more wise or something, blurting out all these dur facts that you cant validate?

i recall recently that you had started asking questions, what happened? not quite as satisfying, huh
anyway fwiw i know youre still in there, and no hard feelings ok, this part will surely pass too
Esau does not die easily lol, thats for sure

 

[bbyrd009]

OK, I'm dense because it isn't obvious to me. Who told RD babies are innocent if it isn't in scripture?

Conversely, where is the exact words of God that states in utero babies are sinners?

like most of the existential questions we have, the answer to this one seems to remain ambiguous in the Bible, at least that is my recollection. You can Quote “from a young age” and “born a sinner” both, and it becomes another one of those believer circular arguments that never get resolved, like is Jesus God, etc, and i even think maybe someone should compile a list lol, im sure someone even has.

my suspicion, after fifty years of observation, is that these actually serve a purpose, and they exist to mark people out? After all, does anyone here really need a Book to tell them if/when an individual sins?

might be more productive to ask “what should one do when another person sins,” since that might actually be resolvable :)

 

[ScottA]

i mean…how is it that you have not considered the possibility, nay, the extreme likelihood, that the death being discussed is only a spiritual one? How many times have you literally died after committing a sin? Is your devotion to your self and its possible immortality so complete that the thought just cannot be entertained, Scott? Do you imagine that you appear more wise or something, blurting out all these dur facts that you cant validate?

i recall recently that you had started asking questions, what happened? not quite as satisfying, huh
anyway fwiw i know youre still in there, and no hard feelings ok, this part will surely pass too
Esau does not die easily lol, thats for sure

Indeed, to be born into this world, is spiritual death--born of the wo of men.

I have no need to validate what God has spoken and established. If I believe it, and speak when I am spoken to, what is it of mine if I have only yielded?

As for questions, I have very few. But I ask those who ask, that they may come to the answer by God rather than me expecting to be in the middle. Yet, if pressed I do not ask, but tell the truth as it is given to me to do so. Does that not align with what is written?

 

[bbyrd009]

Indeed, to be born into this world, is spiritual death--born of the wo of men.

I have no need to validate what God has spoken and established. If I believe it, and speak when I am spoken to, what is it of mine if I have only yielded?

As for questions, I have very few. But I ask those who ask, that they may come to the answer by God rather than me expecting to be in the middle. Yet, if pressed I do not ask, but tell the truth as it is given to me to do so. Does that not align with what is written?

i would say that that is up to you, but you can easily enough find out by just keep doing it and observing the fruit i guess. In my experience the last thing most ppl wanna hear is any truth, so i am trying to hear that and speak accordingly

 

[bbyrd009]

i meant that tic, tbh imo even thinking that you know the “truth” is a really bad idea; i do not know what the truth is, and i most likely would have a violent negative reaction to it if i did, based upon experience

 

[ScottA]

i meant that tic, tbh imo even thinking that you know the “truth” is a really bad idea; i do not know what the truth is, and i most likely would have a violent negative reaction to it if i did, based upon experience

Yeah, "negative reaction" is the biblical history.

But if one knows the truth from God, should they lie and say it isn't so[?] ;)

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah, "negative reaction" is the biblical history.

But if one knows the truth from God, should they lie and say it isn't so[?] ;)

well, i guess someone will ask “how do you know that that ‘truth’ is indeed ‘from God?’”
another comes along and expounds upon a different, even opposite “truth, from God,” right?
what is believes all things, i wonder; what does that even mean?

 

[bbyrd009]

“he’s only one year old; he doesnt have opinions”

 

[ScottA]

well, i guess someone will ask “how do you know that that ‘truth’ is indeed ‘from God?’”
another comes along and expounds upon a different, even opposite “truth, from God,” right?
what is believes all things, i wonder; what does that even mean?

What does it matter?

The delusions of lying men and their schemes do not change what is true or false, nor does any of it actually alter the plans of God.

On the other hand...there is much written regarding turning from such evils and the gains that can be received. As for those who speak against or contrary to the truth, there is also much written. So be it.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

like most of the existential questions we have, the answer to this one seems to remain ambiguous in the Bible, at least that is my recollection. You can Quote “from a young age” and “born a sinner” both, and it becomes another one of those believer circular arguments that never get resolved, like is Jesus God, etc, and i even think maybe someone should compile a list lol, im sure someone even has.

my suspicion, after fifty years of observation, is that these actually serve a purpose, and they exist to mark people out? After all, does anyone here really need a Book to tell them if/when an individual sins?

might be more productive to ask “what should one do when another person sins,” since that might actually be resolvable :)

Not really a circular argument.
A rather simple question for those in Christ.

Do we worship a God who gives from himself their souls and then sends them to hell for eternity when he lets them die in the womb?