Who Created or Made a Sin Nature?

[ScottA]

It is a far gone conclusion. However, it is not one that is bublical.

The reality of 100% being born to die, is biblical proof that all who are born of the flesh are born with inherent sin, "the wages of death."

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Part of the cause for fracture of the gospel by false teachers is misrepresenting what God actually says. And doesn't say.

Think about miscarriages. That false teaching that says those precious babies lost to miscarriage died in sin. And we know what that means.
And then that false teaching says, that's the way it is unless Jesus decides to show mercy.

It's Satanic.

It is true that all have fallen short.
However to receive Salvation, you have to understand why you need it, and turn to Christ to receive it by free-will.
A baby has no mental acuity to be able to do any of that... and does not God know it?
They are exempt.
The interesting question is.....at what point does this exemption end and they become : John 3:36 ?

As on that DAY, everything has changed regarding their eternity.

 

[ScottA]

It is true that all have fallen short.
However to receive Salvation, you have to understand why you need it, and turn to Christ to receive it by free-will.
A baby has no mental acuity to be able to do any of that... and does not God know it?
They are exempt.
The interesting question is.....at what point does this exemption end and they become : John 3:36 ?

As on that DAY, everything has changed regarding their eternity.

Good thinking!

Instead of "exempt", I would say they/most are judged as righteous...as "all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

 

[ScottA]

How can any babe be innocent, if born with sin?

Who told you they were "innocent?"

Death...is the biblical proof of guilt.​

 

[JunChosen]

It is true that all have fallen short.
However to receive Salvation, you have to understand why you need it, and turn to Christ to receive it by free-will.

The Bible nowhere speaks that we need to understand salvation, nor turn to Christ to receive it by free will. Man in and of himself, are spiritually dead and does not have not the power nor the capacity of free will to choose for spiritual things!

In John 15:16 Jesus said: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you...." And, for example, John the Baptist was saved when he was at his mother's womb!

A baby has no mental acuity to be able to do any of that... and does not God know it?
They are exempt.

There are no exemptions! Psalms 58:3 reads: :The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

As on that DAY, everything has changed regarding their eternity.

Well, we read the example of John the Baptist. Luke 1:43 reads: "For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy."

To God Be The Glory

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

The reality of 100% being born to die, is biblical proof that all who are born of the flesh are born with inherent sin, "the wages of death."

Who told you they were "innocent?"

Death...is the biblical proof of guilt.​

Nonsense.

Babies, in utero babies too, are innocent.

Babies souls are of God in the womb, if life begins at conception.
Babies souls do not sin.Period.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

 

[robert derrick]

in that case, it seems to me, that all go to the same place is at the very least misleading, and really a lie? Samuel (accepted) clearly told King Saul (rejected), you and your sons will be here with me

It's not misleading to them that know the difference between the soul of a man, and the mortal body.

that is easily explained by a…better understanding of “dust of the earth” imo—iow if Daniel meant Sheol there, why not just say Sheol? if not to hide wisdom from the wise, iow—or even by applying the following verse,

I don't quibble with Scripture. Daniel is speaking of the resurrection of the dead bodies in graves, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame.

wherein no one actually rises from the dead literally, which is what we observe, at least to date

If you are questioning whether the dead rise or not, then you're on you own.

One man has already resurrected bodily, Jesus Christ, and His body will follow in the first resurrection of the dead.

here we rely on possibly reading too much into a parable

Not a parable:
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores.

Now, if you are questioning hell as real, then you're on your own again.

so, just some food for thought, being as how you most likely are not going to become an immortal

I'm not trying to. The immortals were pagan gods, that sinners like Adam and Eve thought they could be by grace, whether they do good or evil.

All angels and souls of men are created to live forever, and they either will choose to do good and live with God forever, or do evil and separated from God forever.

You can try writing the rest of your stuff in plain speech. I no longer try to unravel peoples' personal witty code.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

The Bible nowhere speaks that we need to understand salvation, nor turn to Christ to receive it by free will. Man in and of himself, are spiritually dead and does not have not the power nor the capacity of free will to choose for spiritual things!

In John 15:16 Jesus said: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you...." And, for example, John the Baptist was saved when he was at his mother's womb!



There are no exemptions! Psalms 58:3 reads: :The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."



Well, we read the example of John the Baptist. Luke 1:43 reads: "For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy."

To God Be The Glory

''The wicked....'' That isn't indicting all unborn babies.
That's a retrospective for the likes of Adam Hussein, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc....

If God damns with sin the unborn, and should that unborn pass away in miscarriage, are they destined for Hell?

 

[robert derrick]

There are no exemptions! Psalms 58:3 reads: :The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

Well, we read the example of John the Baptist. Luke 1:43 reads: "For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy."

Until he was born, then he wickedly went on speaking lies.

I really don't think some people look to closely at what they are trying to teach.

 

[robert derrick]

Who told you they were "innocent?"

Death...is the biblical proof of guilt.​

I no longer argue with sinners, nor the carnal minded.

Scripture as written has no effect on them.

 

[ScottA]

Nonsense.

Babies, in utero babies too, are innocent.

Babies souls are of God in the womb, if life begins at conception.
Babies souls do not sin.Period.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

God has established it. I have merely stated it. Believe what you will.

 

[ScottA]

I no longer argue with sinners, nor the carnal minded.

Scripture as written has no effect on them.

It was a rhetorical question.

What you have claimed, saying that "babes are innocent" is not from scripture, therefore it is obvious who told you.

 

[JunChosen]

well, babies dont talk?

Not really, but Psalms 58;3 must be read with the accompanying verses 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 to really get context.

im all for being critical of the modern day teachings of preachers, Jun, but i think there might be more support for an (unspecified) age of accountability than that?

True. But I never taught there be an age of accountability. I teach what I read in Psalms Chapter 58:3-8.:

yet we give little kids a pass for that behavior all the time, right

Indeed! We read in Matthew 7:8-11:
8) For everyone that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10) Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11) If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

''The wicked....'' That isn't indicting all unborn babies.
That's a retrospective for the likes of Adam Hussein, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc....

God is the Author and finisher to those He wishes to save in eternity past brfore the foundation of the world.
You've forgot the most famous of them all....Hitler.

If God damns with sin the unborn, and should that unborn pass away in miscarriage, are they destined for Hell?

If God has never saved any of them....guess what? Lol

Until he was born, then he wickedly went on speaking lies.

No baby who is born of God will wickedly be speaking lies after he is born. Consider 1 John 3:9.

I really don't think some people look to closely at what they are trying to teach.

You took the words right off of my mouth! Are you?

To God Be The Glory

 

[bbyrd009]

It's not misleading to them that know the difference between the soul of a man, and the mortal body

“life” and “soul” are from the same root word, rd, so not buying that wadr

The soul awakens in hell or in the presence of the Lord in heaven

all go to the same place
no one has ever gone up to heaven…even
no one knows where they go when they die prolly?
so if thats what you have for the above, ty for the attempt

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't quibble with Scripture.

but again, you really arent responding to the q, rd. Ive yet to meet the man who confidently states “i quibble with scripture” anyway, eh

Daniel is speaking of the resurrection of the dead bodies in graves, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame.

you may state that as a fact if you like, and i wont argue, but understand that that just makes you a guy who says you know, and it does not make it true, ok?

Not a parable:
There was a certain rich man

fair enough; i once used the same argument.
ive since learned that “there was a man…” was the accepted way to start a parable, otherwise a specific name could be required for “proof,” but i have no idea where i got that, might even be inaccurate lol

All angels and souls of men are created to live forever

well, i guess its ok to believe that if you like rd, although you cannot Quote these from anywhere either, im pretty sure

 

[bbyrd009]

being as how you most likely are not going to become an immortal

I'm not trying to. The immortals were pagan gods

All angels and souls of men are created to live forever

You can try writing the rest of your stuff in plain speech

ok ty rd

 

[bbyrd009]

No one has ever gone up to heaven but He Who came down from it, the son of man right?

so iow if you start with the ones that that speak literally, and then add the ones with flowery/religious interpretations in on that already existing understanding, you will be less likely to misinterpret the flowery ones—due to your confidence, and willingness—forcing you to ignore the straightforward ones

You can try writing the rest of your stuff in plain speech. I no longer try to unravel peoples' personal witty code

cant say i blame you buddy; it was just an idea anyway :) Ok tks for all the facts yo

 

[bbyrd009]

Who told you they were "innocent?"

Death...is the biblical proof of guilt.​

you too, Scott? This is some ridic cult of sol bs that you cannot Quote anywhere, imo

 

[bbyrd009]

imo if you care about your spiritual life and your spiritual death i would be avoiding these fake oracles