I guess that it all goes back to the fact of one either wanting to walk in the meat of the word or the milk of the word. Very seldom is there anybody that does.
So because I refuse to leave my brain at the door......and ignore the fact that God allowed a satan to torment His faithful servant on a bet......and instead look for a deeper meaning in the story like God's sovereignty and the faithfulness of His servant Job (Job is obviously faithful because he remains in relationship with God even though he lost everything without explanation except for God's sovereignty); I am guilty of still consuming the milk of of the word.....? Somehow I doubt Paul was talking about this situation - seems to me cheapening God's character by reading the story as a morality tale and conveniently blaming satan when God allowed him access to Job is a surface reading of the scripture.
To walk in the meat requires that one know the difference between good and evil. If one blames God instead of the devil for what the devil is doing then he does not know how to separate the two.
Actually, we were never created to know good and evil. We were created to love. We have to rely solely on God for our morality - that is why it is important that we understand God's character. Stories like Job cannot be about morality because we know God would never gamble with a satan at our expense - it is not in His character. If He did, He would cease to be moral and consequently, cease to be Good - of course that is impossible. Therefore, the point of stories like Job include God's sovereignty, which He made clear to Job at the end of the book and Job's faithfulness. If you believe I am blaming God for what happened to Job, at this point in the conversation - you have missed my point completely. I cannot blame God because I do not believe this is a story about morality - but if it was, I cannot pick who to blame based on who is the good guy and who is the bad guy, when it is obvious that the good guy is in charge of the bad guy and lets him torment Job.
Another interesting thing about the ball game and God is that God is not capable of evil the basket ball team is capable of fouling.
So if it appears that God is culpable - you simply refuse to recognize it. The problem with this method is that it is anti-intellectual - it presumes that we cannot trust the Bible because we have to overlook parts of it or pretend that they didn't happen. And worst of all, it allows us to blame others when they refuse to follow the same mental gymnastics required to share our strained interpretation. When I recognize that God appears culpable, I conclude that the point of the story must be found elsewhere, based on what I know about God's character. The similarity between your thinking about God and my friend's mindset regarding the Lakers is found in the lack of reasoning; you are both picking your winner without regard to the facts.
As for the fact of knowing the character of God if one wishes to attribute evil to him then I question them knowing His character.
Me too. That is why it is important to realize the point of the story of Job, which is not morality, but sovereignty and faithfulness. We learn nothing about morality in this story - we do learn a lot about God's sovereignty and Job's response to God's sovereignty, which is faithfulness.
Every PERFECT gift comes down from the Father.
God is the source of all grace.
Sorry we might be talking about two different Gods.
Right, because your God is right and mine is wrong........the funny thing about this conversation is that you are refusing to recognize my point, just like you are failing to see that God allowed a satan to torment Job on a bet! Makes sense, if you deny the ramifications of what happened in the book of Job if read as a morality tale, why would you interpret my post any differently.
There are many people that have many gods that use the Bible as their point of reference.
Well, I guess I am in good company then.
If it is good and perfect it comes from God if it is not it comes from the devil. That is not rocket science.
If God is all powerful and the satan is His servant - a created being - he has to be under the direction of God. If he is under the direction of God, he cannot do anything without God's permission. If he cannot do anything without God's permission, God had to allow him to torment Job. Therefore, Job was right to say that God allowed the satan (it was not Satan) to torment him. How is that a sin? Job is recognizing God's sovereignty - something you are refusing to do. The point of the story is that God is all powerful and we need to realize this and remain faithful.
I'll bank my credibility on God and His Word and His love any day rather than the devil that comes to steal kill and destroy.... Just sayin.
And I will take the message of the story of Job - God's sovereignty - and remember that in times of trial that God is in charge of everything so I need not worry - I will pray to remain faithful to Him in the face of adversity just like His servant Job.
Peace
