Who Falls From Grace & Who Falls Short Of It?

[Lifelong_sinner]

There is NO such thing as a complete fall from grace. Paul washer had this to say;

“If I see someone who, let's say, for three or four years seems to have walked with God, loved the saints, endeavored to pray, to know the Word, to congregate with other believers, and all of such, and then they begin to fall away gradually. They begin to walk away. They begin to allow the world and sin and other things into their life. They begin to enjoy the fellowship of the wicked. I don't go to them and tell them, "You know you're a Christian and you need to avoid backsliding. I go to them and say, "You have made the good profession. You have declared among many that you are a believer, but now you are beginning to live like an unbeliever. It is very, very possible you never knew Him, that up until this point, it has all been a very deceiving work of the flesh, because, if a work of God does not continue, it never was a work of God.“

you CANNOT lose your salvation, or completely fall from grace. Perseverance of the saints is a real and true doctrine.

 

[Curtis]

Those who live and die in sin and unbelief were never truly saved in the first place. Romans 8 is a mighty exhortation to the true believer, full of comforting assurance for the true believer, as are many other passages.

That’s absolutely wrong.

Jesus Himself said some believe only for a while, but then fall away.

Paul warned over and over that living immorally and in sin keeps the brethren out of heaven.

No believer who’s actually read the whole New Testament from Matthew to revelation several times will be deceived by OSAS because scripture after scripture refutes it.

 

[Curtis]

There is NO such thing as a complete fall from grace. Paul washer had this to say;

“If I see someone who, let's say, for three or four years seems to have walked with God, loved the saints, endeavored to pray, to know the Word, to congregate with other believers, and all of such, and then they begin to fall away gradually. They begin to walk away. They begin to allow the world and sin and other things into their life. They begin to enjoy the fellowship of the wicked. I don't go to them and tell them, "You know you're a Christian and you need to avoid backsliding. I go to them and say, "You have made the good profession. You have declared among many that you are a believer, but now you are beginning to live like an unbeliever. It is very, very possible you never knew Him, that up until this point, it has all been a very deceiving work of the flesh, because, if a work of God does not continue, it never was a work of God.“

you CANNOT lose your salvation, or completely fall from grace. Perseverance of the saints is a real and true doctrine.

Nice theory, except Jesus, Peter and Paul make clear that a believer can fall back and be lost after salvation.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Nice theory, except Jesus, Peter and Paul make clear that a believer can fall back and be lost after salvation.

did any of them say to bow to a pope?? Yea, i couldnt find that either.

 

[Tong2020]

Nice theory, except Jesus, Peter and Paul make clear that a believer can fall back and be lost after salvation.

If it takes for an unconverted to be convicted and fully persuaded unto repentance unto God and faith towards Jesus Christ for salvation, I think it would take for the converted to be convicted and fully persuaded unto repentance from God and to unbelief in Jesus Christ to be unconverted and be lost, if such a case be possible.

Nonetheless, the latter says a lot of what the former really is.

Tong
R4792

 

[Ezra]

EXCEPT...

thats not what i asked is it? show me scriptures that says we can lose our salvation .

why did you not include this in your scripture of 1cor 6? 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. we all have our select scriptures dont get m wrong i find NO place in scripture where we can continue in a sinful life style w/o any repentance turning from changing of our mind. are we saved one moment then lost the next and then lost again and then saved again ? can you distinguish in scripture to where we have have lost it?

the WRATH of God upon the childrenof disobedience.

have you ever been disobedient ? tell the truth

 

[Stumpmaster]

It is very, very possible you never knew Him, that up until this point, it has all been a very deceiving work of the flesh, because, if a work of God does not continue, it never was a work of God.“

So in that case it is NOT a falling away from "salvation by grace through faith", and therefore not relevant to the Scriptures that address such falling away.

How can anyone fall away from something they never had?????????????????

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It is often reported that someone has fallen from grace when they do something sinful and destroy their reputation, but does this mean God's grace is no longer available to them?

Your first verse answered the question of what thebcaysenifbthus fall from grace is, legalism. Relying on a works oriented salvation. Righteousness does not come by the LAW. That is a different gospel and we see that in many churches across the spectrum of Christianity.
I do suppose that one can get up from their fall, repent and reach out for Grace again.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

The pure folly of antinomian theology lies in the fact that Paul was discussing the Orthodox Jews' attempts to be forgiven of their sins through the animal sacrifices as well as their attempts to attain salvation through physical circumcision in Galatians. It is just like Peter said: ignorant and wicked people twist Paul's words to their own detriment. Paul routinely discussed 2 kinds of righteousness throughout his epistles, and the context of his statements reveals which kind he was referring to. In some passages like Rom. 3:24-25, he speaks of the righteousness that comes from a person's slate being wiped clean by God's grace. In other passages like Rom. 3:31, Rom. 2:31, and Tit. 1:16, he speaks of the righteousness that comes from living by the Law.

The purpose of the Law is to define moral behavior, warn against immoral behavior, and to convict people of sin. God's grace, on the other hand, is what wipes a person's slate clean after they violated the Law, which is why Paul said this cannot be earned by keeping any law. Law and grace do not oppose each other, but Catholics and Protestants refuse to understand what is a simple biblical concept because they don't read Paul's words in their proper context, and the result is that those people have created a Paul that doesn't exist.

If someone fell short of God's grace just by keeping the Law, then Paul condemned himself in Galatians since Acts clearly shows him living by the Law. The sin doesn't come from keeping the Law; the sin lies in trying to earn forgiveness or by keeping the Law. Paul's theology about how the grace of God cannot be obtained through law-keeping is not the same as him saying Christians are supposed to completely disregard the Law. A person would think the average bible reader would possess the reading comprehension skills and common sense to know that.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Who Falls From Grace?

Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

They made a good start but were turning away from God who called them into the grace of Christ:

• Gal 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,

The crucifixion of Christ would be redundant and the grace of God set aside if righteousness came another way.

• Gal 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

Who Falls Short Of Grace?

Heb 12:14-16 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: (15) looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; (16) lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.

They who do not fully receive the unmerited favour of God as a gift made available through faith in Christ for salvation, fall short or fail of the grace of God, and may well trust in good works, or completely apostasise.

• Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
• Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

It is often reported that someone has fallen from grace when they do something sinful and destroy their reputation, but does this mean God's grace is no longer available to them?

Read psalms 89

 

[Stumpmaster]

Read psalms 89

Nothing about Judaisers bewitching Christian converts in Psalm 89. . .so . . .?

 

[Daniel Veler]

Try reading it again and apply Christ and his kingdom to it.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Try reading it again and apply Christ and his kingdom to it.

Perhaps you could start a thread on that . . . meanwhile, those pesky Judaisers keep trying to estrange Christian converts from the Gospel of Grace.

Act 20:24 But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Jesus was the Originator and Chief Proponent for OSAS.......He said that if you Believed in Him ,you “ already had Eternal Life” and that you would “NEVER come under Condemnaction”

Pretty hard to argue against that, isn’t it? Non-OSAS proponents won’t touch it......I understand why.....What part of “ never” can a person not understand ?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Jesus was the Originator and Chief Proponent for OSAS.......He said that if you Believed in Him ,you “ already had Eternal Life” and that you would “NEVER come under Condemnaction”

Pretty hard to argue against that, isn’t it? Non-OSAS proponents won’t touch it......I understand why.....What part of “ never” can a person not understand ?

Yes, apparently belief that turns to unbelief never really was belief, but the part about being saved by grace through faith and not works is at the heart of the "falling from grace" issue. Why do "foolish Galations" estrange themselves from the Gospel of Grace to come under OT Law?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m suggesting you are wrong.

I explained why.

The text says why a believer can fall short of grace: living immorally.

That would rule everyone out

It is best for us to nt be as the pharisee pumping our chest and declaring how we are not like the sinner, But to become like the tax collector and get on our knees.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Seriously, I've not posted anything relating to the dispute you raise.

The letter to the Hebrews repeatedly warns against apostasy, the moving away from Positional Holiness.

Heb 2:1-4 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. (2) For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, (3) how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, (4) God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

He can a person move AWAY from positional holiness, When they could never walk toward positional holiness.

Its all of Christ.

Remember the letter to the corinthian church. Where paul names a list of sins and said these people would not make it. And he gave them the status, “And such WERE some f you. Burt you have been WASHED, you have been SANCTIFIED (positional holiness), you have been JUSTIFIED in the name of Christ by the spirit of God.

He never said they stopped those sins, In fact the book is rebuking them for continuing in those sins, And allowing others to continue in those sins, one person even in a grave sin of sleeping with his fathers mother. And how they remained babes (conditional holiness) on Christ that still needed fed Milk because that had not matured or grown up.

Positional sanctification is being perfected in christ.

By one offering he has perfected (positional sanctification) forever those who are being Sanctified (conditional sanctification)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, apparently belief that turns to unbelief never really was belief, but the part about being saved by grace through faith and not works is at the heart of the "falling from grace" issue. Why do "foolish Galations" estrange themselves from the Gospel of Grace to come under OT Law?

Because that is where their true faith lived. It was never in Christ. It was in the law. People try knew things all the time, but they always return to that they truly believe in

Like a dog they return to their vomit the good book says. Because they were always dogs. They were never changed

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OSAS is the doctrine of devils those with itching ears take to themselves to make grace a license for sin, and is the deception Paul warns the saints and brethren about multiple times in his epistles.

Why do you excuse your sin while judging others?

Shame on you. We should be giving our eternity to Christ not pumping our chest in false humility

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Bible contradicts the above opinion.

For the Galatians to become estranged from Christ they first had to know Him.

Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

They began in the Spirit but like many after them fell into the observance of mere rites and ceremonies, and depended mainly on them for salvation.

Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
There may be Catholics on this site, but I'm not. Ironically, add-ons and alternatives to grace typify Catholicism, the very thing this thread is opposing.

Yes, they had fallen from Grace

Grace was offered to them, They had it in their hands, But instead of receiving it, acting on it, and making it their own, they rejected it and returned to their true love. the law.

Its like climbing a mountain and right before you get to the peak. you fall.