Who Falls From Grace & Who Falls Short Of It?

[marks]

I heard a sermon once that used the analogy of a person standing in a shower of grace. As long as they stand in the place where grace showers upon them they are in the position of holiness, but if they walk away from that position [apostasise] they become estranged from grace and the holiness it provides.

Apostasy by definition means moving away from a position.

[Middle English apostasie, from Old French, from Late Latin apostasia, defection, from Late Greek apostasiā, from Greek apostasis, revolt, from aphistanai,
apo-
or
ap-
prefix
1. away from; off: apogee.
2. indicating separation of: apocarpous.
3. indicating a lack or absence of: apogamy.
4. indicating derivation from or relationship to: apomorphine.
[from Greek apo away, off]
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014

histanai, to stand, place; see stā- in Indo-European roots.]
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.

Literally, "away from standing", that is, departure. Used 2 times in the NT, Acts 21, I think, some accusing Paul of "teaching departure from Moses", and, 2 Thessalonians 2, "that day will not come but the apostasia come first, and the man of sin be revealed".

It's used a number of times in the LXX, all, if I remember correctly, that have a certain context, that context is rebellion or along that line.

Much love!

 

[Stumpmaster]

Literally, "away from standing", that is, departure. Used 2 times in the NT, Acts 21, I think, some accusing Paul of "teaching departure from Moses", and, 2 Thessalonians 2, "that day will not come but the apostasia come first, and the man of sin be revealed".

It's used a number of times in the LXX, all, if I remember correctly, that have a certain context, that context is rebellion or along that line.

Much love!

Correct.
Act 21:21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [Gr. apostasia] Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

Some years ago I was treated badly by some nemesis-friends who had become fanatical followers and practioners of Benny Hinn's style of pentecostalism. When I related how I refused to co-operate with them a pastor made the comment that I had apostasised from them. I informed him that I had never held the ideological position they did so wasn't moving away from it, but there is a perception that if you run with pentecostals you buy into everything pertaining to the given label.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I believe you Have misunderstood both passages.

Heb 6 is talking about those who have returned to law. Which states you can fall away, and need to be renewed.

The author states the law is unable. Because if you could fall away as the law states. You could never be renewed to repentance.

What is impossible is the ability to be renewed IF a person could fall away.

Which is against the teaching of the law

Heb 10 again is talking about returning to the law.

How much worse will it be for the one who claimed the blood. But returned to animal sacrifice.

The whole book of Hebrews is about the law and how it compair to grace. And why Grace is a better option.

If one can fall away. Grace is in reality no better than the law

The point is that falling away from grace by reverting to the laws of Judaism, or to salvation by works, or to atheism, as is the case with some, has consequences, as stipulated in the verses supplied.

In Scripture it is a given that falling away from grace, failing of it, or falling short of it, is a very real possibility. I know people who have done it, transitioning from believer to unbeliever, and becoming just like those conspirators who refuted and rejected Jesus and succeeded in having Him crucified.

Such people of course are never eternally affixed by the saving grace of God in their experience of it, but rather taste it, and are temporarily sanctified, until they revolt.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The point is that falling away from grace by reverting to the laws of Judaism, or to salvation by works, or to atheism, as is the case with some, has consequences, as stipulated in the verses supplied.

In Scripture it is a given that falling away from grace, failing of it, or falling short of it, is a very real possibility. I know people who have done it, transitioning from believer to unbeliever, and becoming just like those conspirators who refuted and rejected Jesus and succeeded in having Him crucified.

Such people of course are never eternally affixed by the saving grace of God in their experience of it, but rather taste it, and are temporarily sanctified, until they revolt.

I disagree, they were never sanctified. If they were, they were perfected forever.

Paul said he who began a good work in you will complete it. When we claim the work God started in the sanctification process can fail. We are calling God a failure.

Again, We can not justify ourself. We can not save ourself. As such, we can not “unsafe” or “Unjustify” ourself.

If we could unsave or unjustify, in reality, we are required to justify or save ourself. Which means we can boast of our salvation. Which is not a gift. But a reward

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yes, they had fallen from Grace

Grace was offered to them, They had it in their hands, But instead of receiving it, acting on it, and making it their own, they rejected it and returned to their true love. the law.

Its like climbing a mountain and right before you get to the peak. you fall.

I would maintain 90% of the Church World is “ Fallen From Grace” and like the World, doesn’t even know what it means....

Most Religionists ( not Christians, mind you) think that although Jesus is “ Essential” for Salvation, he just ain’t “ Sufficient “ in and of Himself for Salvation......Remember the song, “Nothing But The Blood?”....... it has it correct......go beyond that and you are a Legalists and you are “ Fallen From Grace”........Some say that means Damnation .....let’s hope not, for the sake of the millions of Legalists out there that say, “ Sure Jesus Saves—- BUT!”...... Jesus Saves.Period.

 

[atpollard]

OSAS is the doctrine of devils those with itching ears take to themselves to make grace a license for sin, and is the deception Paul warns the saints and brethren about multiple times in his epistles.

OSAS is an abused acronym.
At one extreme, it is used as a shorthand for “God will finish what He started” (Philippians 1:6 , John 6:27-30).
At the other extreme, it is a battle cry (real or imagined) that people can or should live a reprobate lifestyle and think themselves saved.
So sometimes, OSAS is completely true and Biblical and sometimes it is a lie from the pit of hell.

That is why I prefer “Perseverance of the Saints” which at least has a more established “definition”.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Read the seven letters in revelation and you’ll see who falls short of Grace. Pray that you are found worthy.

Nobody is or ever will be “ worthy”......We are “ MADE” Worthy by the Blood Of The Lamb if we have put our complete faith in Jesus to save us.....Faith in the Sacrificial Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing.

 

[Enoch111]

Who Falls From Grace?

No one. We need to read the whole passage in context, and see that that was a warning to the Christians in Galatia being deceived by Judaizers:

WARNING!
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
WARNING!
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
THE LAW DEMANDS TOTAL OBEDIENCE
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
HYPOTHETICAL SINCE THEY WERE JUSTIFIED BY GRACE
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
CONFIRMATION OF IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
CIRCUMCISION MEANS NOTHING
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
COMMENDATION
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
JUDAIZERS WERE TRYING TO DECEIVE CHRISTIANS
8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
PAUL IS CONFIDENT THAT THEY WILL NOT BE DECEIVED
10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

To fall from grace would have been to turn away from the Gospel truth that justification is by grace through faith, and then return to the works of the Law for justification. This did not actually happen, since Paul said I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OSAS is an abused acronym.
At one extreme, it is used as a shorthand for “God will finish what He started” (Philippians 1:6 , John 6:27-30).
At the other extreme, it is a battle cry (real or imagined) that people can or should live a reprobate lifestyle and think themselves saved.
So sometimes, OSAS is completely true and Biblical and sometimes it is a lie from the pit of hell.

That is why I prefer “Perseverance of the Saints” which at least has a more established “definition”.

I prefer eternal security.

Perseverance of the saints appears to say the person himself will persevere and in the end not fall away, In stead of the person being secure in christ. Which is their hope

John said he wrote us a whole book so we can KNOW we have eternal life. And by this knowledge continue to believe.

Its the knowledge we have it in which is our hope and security. Not how well we persevere.

I agree 100% about osas. I have grown to hate that term.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nobody is or ever will be “ worthy”......We are “ MADE” Worthy by the Blood Of The Lamb if we have put our complete faith in Jesus to save us.....Faith in the Sacrificial Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing.

Amen.

Not by works of righteousness (good deeds) which we have done, but by his mercy HE SAVED US

 

[Daniel Veler]

Nobody is or ever will be “ worthy”......We are “ MADE” Worthy by the Blood Of The Lamb if we have put our complete faith in Jesus to save us.....Faith in the Sacrificial Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing.

How much faith do you have? Is it greater the a mustard seed?

 

[mailmandan]

In regards to Galatians 5:4, the present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

In regards to Hebrews 12:15, some people read it from the KJV "fail of the grace of God" and assume that such a person was saved and lost their salvation, yet other translations clear up this confusion. The NIV says, "falls short of the grace of God." The NASB says, "comes short of the grace of God" and the ESV says, "fails to obtain the grace of God."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In regards to Galatians 5:4, the present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

In regards to Hebrews 12:15, some people read it from the KJV "fail of the grace of God" and assume that such a person was saved and lost their salvation, yet other translations clear up this confusion. The NIV says, "falls short of the grace of God." The NASB says, "comes short of the grace of God" and the ESV says, "fails to obtain the grace of God."

amen, He wants those who have not yet completed in the spirit to complete it. Not in the flesh.

 

[atpollard]

Nobody is or ever will be “ worthy”......We are “ MADE” Worthy by the Blood Of The Lamb if we have put our complete faith in Jesus to save us.....Faith in the Sacrificial Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing.

... Yet God does declare some "worthy":

[Rev 3:4 KJV] 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

[in context]:

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. [Rev 3:1-6 KJV]​

 

[Stumpmaster]

In regards to Galatians 5:4, the present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

In regards to Hebrews 12:15, some people read it from the KJV "fail of the grace of God" and assume that such a person was saved and lost their salvation, yet other translations clear up this confusion. The NIV says, "falls short of the grace of God." The NASB says, "comes short of the grace of God" and the ESV says, "fails to obtain the grace of God."

Yes, I get the impression from Scripture that Paul directed much attention to an "at risk" contingent whose faith in Christ was being maligned and whose obedience to the Gospel truth was being hampered and hindered.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?

Gal 5:7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?

Quote from Believer's Bible Commentary on Gal 5:7: Legalism is disobedience to the truth. The Galatians had made a good start in the Christian life, but someone had hindered them. It was the Judaizers, the legalists, the false apostles. By accepting their erroneous teachings, the saints were disobeying the truth of God.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

No one. We need to read the whole passage in context, and see that that was a warning to the Christians in Galatia being deceived by Judaizers:

WARNING!
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
WARNING!
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
THE LAW DEMANDS TOTAL OBEDIENCE
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
HYPOTHETICAL SINCE THEY WERE JUSTIFIED BY GRACE
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
CONFIRMATION OF IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
CIRCUMCISION MEANS NOTHING
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
COMMENDATION
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
JUDAIZERS WERE TRYING TO DECEIVE CHRISTIANS
8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
PAUL IS CONFIDENT THAT THEY WILL NOT BE DECEIVED
10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

To fall from grace would have been to turn away from the Gospel truth that justification is by grace through faith, and then return to the works of the Law for justification. This did not actually happen, since Paul said I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded

The entirety of those that believe Catholic doctrine ( the seven sacred sacraments, etc ) and the vast majority of today's church world are Fallen From Grace and don’t even know what that phrase means.....Anybody that goes beyond “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus” for their Salvation is a modern- Day Judaizer......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

How much faith do you have? Is it greater the a mustard seed?

If I had the Faith to move a mountain it would be meaningless if I did not have Love.....


It ain’t the “ amount” of Faith I have——- it’s the “object” of my Faith....

 

[Daniel Veler]

If I had the Faith to move a mountain it would be meaningless if I did not have Love.....


It ain’t the “ amount” of Faith I have——- it’s the “object” of my Faith....

The point I had hoped you seen was just how little faith God gives us to receive his righteousness.