Who founded your church?

[mjrhealth]

No - you don't have to list them ALL.
I just wanted to make sure you included your Shim Ra Na cult at aggressivechristianity.net . . .

Oh so upset, the truth really does get to you, you do know that when you deny truth you deny Him because He the truth, Jesus Christ the one whom you persecute. You know that saying., stick and stones may break my bones but your words can never hurt me.

Nothing to throw but mud,and it isnt sticking

 

[Renniks]

the scriptures are inspired cause they are God breathed!

the apostles are also God breathed
Jn 20:21-23

But what you quoted was not scripture.

 

[theefaith]

But what you quoted was not scripture.

where? Jn 20?

 

[Renniks]

WRONG.

Nicodemus asked Jesus how a man is born AGAIN. Jesus responded:
John 3:5
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born qof water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

- In the first chapter of John's Gospel, we read about the Baptism of Christ - and WHAT do we see?
WATER and the SPIRIT.

- In the second chapter, we see Jesus at the Wedding at Cana - and AGAIN, we see the transformative use of water.

- In Chapter three, we see Him telling Nicodemus that he must be born again of WATER and SPIRIT.
And WHAT does Jesus do after leaving Nicodemus?? He and the Apostles go BAPTIZING (John 3:22).

The first three chapters of John's Gospel are literally DRENCHED in the transformative water of BAPTISM.

Sooo, Jesus was baptized. Think about that for a moment. Are you trying to tell me that Jesus was saved by Being dipped in water? Jesus was already God, he didn't need to be saved. So, why do it? For the same reason that people do today, to make a public statement about their faith. According to your theories, Jesus had to be transformed by being dipped in water.? Can't you see how silly that is?

How in this context Jesus could imagine that Nicodemus could have picked up from the word water an allusion to Christian baptism is not all that clear. It wasn't even a thing yet. Moreover, in the next chapter John draws attention to the fact that Jesus himself didn’t baptize people (John 4:2).
There were also times when Jesus declared people saved who weren't baptised.

Like Luke 7:48…49But those at the table began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” 50And Jesus told the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
And Luke 23:
…42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!” 43And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Jesus didn't say:"Hey, Disciples, quick, pull this guy off the cross and dip him so I can save him! I just can't do it without water!"

The water from wine has nothing to do with baptism. That's a weird Catholic interpretation.

And no, Jesus didn't go baptize people. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward transformation.

 

[Renniks]

where? Jn 20?

Go back and look at what I replied to...I'm assuming it was some Catholic book.

 

[theefaith]

Sooo, Jesus was baptized. Think about that for a moment. Are you trying to tell me that Jesus was saved by Being dipped in water? Jesus was already God, he didn't need to be saved. So, why do it? For the same reason that people do today, to make a public statement about their faith. According to your theories, Jesus had to be transformed by being dipped in water.? Can't you see how silly that is?

How in this context Jesus could imagine that Nicodemus could have picked up from the word water an allusion to Christian baptism is not all that clear. It wasn't even a thing yet. Moreover, in the next chapter John draws attention to the fact that Jesus himself didn’t baptize people (John 4:2).
There were also times when Jesus declared people saved who weren't baptised.

Like Luke 7:48…49But those at the table began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” 50And Jesus told the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
And Luke 23:
…42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!” 43And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Jesus didn't say:"Hey, Disciples, quick, pull this guy off the cross and dip him so I can save him! I just can't do it without water!"

The water from wine has nothing to do with baptism. That's a weird Catholic interpretation.

And no, Jesus didn't go baptize people. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward transformation.

Jesus did not receive Christian baptism of regeneration only the baptism of John and to fulfill all righteousness and be an example

 

[theefaith]

Go back and look at what I replied to...I'm assuming it was some Catholic book.

the scriptures are inspired cause they are God breathed!

the apostles are also God breathed
Jn 20:21-23

You said:
But what you quoted was not scripture.

why?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh so upset, the truth really does get to you, you do know that when you deny truth you deny Him because He the truth, Jesus Christ the one whom you persecute. You know that saying., stick and stones may break my bones but your words can never hurt me.

Nothing to throw but mud,and it isnt sticking

And once again -you won't find the truth with your "Shim Ra Na" cult on aggressivechristianity.net.

And, as for slinging "mud" - you really should look at your own posts before you accuse somebody else . . .

 

[BarneyFife]

What has christianity got to do with your religion, Christainity is about Christ, not religion, Catholism, SDA JW all the man created denomintaions from that great harlot you serve, all her little jealous daughters trying to improve on mum. That wide path that so many prefer.

Talk about slinging mud. It must be nice not to have a label to mock. Your anti-everything trolling is really starting to get old. You're worse than Eeyore, who said things like:

“Sure is a cheerful color. Guess I’ll have to get used to it.”

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sooo, Jesus was baptized. Think about that for a moment. Are you trying to tell me that Jesus was saved by Being dipped in water? Jesus was already God, he didn't need to be saved. So, why do it? For the same reason that people do today, to make a public statement about their faith. According to your theories, Jesus had to be transformed by being dipped in water.? Can't you see how silly that is?

How in this context Jesus could imagine that Nicodemus could have picked up from the word water an allusion to Christian baptism is not all that clear. It wasn't even a thing yet. Moreover, in the next chapter John draws attention to the fact that Jesus himself didn’t baptize people (John 4:2).
There were also times when Jesus declared people saved who weren't baptised.

Like Luke 7:48…49But those at the table began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” 50And Jesus told the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
And Luke 23:
…42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!” 43And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Jesus didn't say:"Hey, Disciples, quick, pull this guy off the cross and dip him so I can save him! I just can't do it without water!"

The water from wine has nothing to do with baptism. That's a weird Catholic interpretation.

And no, Jesus didn't go baptize people. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward transformation.

Jesus's Baptism weas purly symbolic because He is God. He was showing US what to do.
As for Nicodemus NOT understanding because Christian Baptism was NOT a "thing" yet - this is why Jesus rebukes him:
John 3:9-10
Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel yand yet you do not understand these things?"

Nicodemus shouldn't be surprised, given the prophesy by Ezekiel:
Ezek. 36:25-28
I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleanness from all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will remove from your body the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will put my spirit within you, and make you follow my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. Then you shall live in the land that I gave to your ancestors; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.

This is PRECISELY whay Paul teaches:
Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

Tit. 3:4-8
but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit

Baptism is the NORMATIVE means of receiving the Holy Spirit and the forgiveness of sins (John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Col. 2:11-12, 1 Pet. 3:21). It is the way we enter the New Covenant (Rom. 6: 3-4, Gal. 3:27, Eph. 4:5, Tit. 3:4-8).

As to the theif on the cross - he was an exception because he was competely UNABLE to be Baptized upon professing faith.
NEVER base your doctrines on the exception - but the NORM . . .

 

[BarneyFife]

I am just trying to figure out why you trust your own judgment on what heresy is and how you know what the unadulterated truth is.

We're trying to figure out why you trust others' judgment.

You theory that The Church fell into heresy and stopped teaching the truth or sound doctrine after the first century suggest that Satan prevailed over The Church.

He gave Job a pretty thorough working over, and God regarded Job quite highly. Besides, the true church was preserved in the wilderness (Revelation 12:6) while Popery was doing its worst. And it's not a theory. It's history.

 

[Renniks]

WRONG again.

Faith is NOT simply "believeing". James tells us that even the DEMONS do that much (James 2:19). Faith is belief + SURRENDER, which includes obedience and DOING the Lord's will (Matt. 7:21). If you don't - then you DON'T have true faith and cannot hope to be saved.

What is the Lord's will?

the scriptures are inspired cause they are God breathed!

the apostles are also God breathed
Jn 20:21-23

You said:
But what you quoted was not scripture.

why?

Because it wasn't.

 

[Brakelite]

heresy is error
Contrary to the truth and therefore cos the loss of the only of the salvation souls

it therefore must be punished with excessive rigor and death

there is OT precedent Elijah killed the false prophets etc.

Why does the church condemn Bible societies? Not cos they promote the Bible, but cos they are sources of error and heresy
Inter Praecipuas - Papal Encyclicals

This post must be one of the most startling confessions of true Catholic policy I've seen on any Forum. Well done @theefaith for your honest and integrity. No other Catholic,@BreadOfLife , @Marymog , @Illuminator it anyone else has admitted the above truth. They would rather hide behind abuse or obfuscation or NLP or pretend the last 1500 years didn't exist.
The really sad thing of course is that @theefaith believes it better that we all be dead because we disagree with papal dogma. But kudos to you thee, at least you have the courage of your convictions to admit it.

 

[DNB]

Thank you, I know there is nothing I can say that will change your mind,

I am just trying to figure out why you trust your own judgment on what heresy is and how you know what the unadulterated truth is. You seem to place everyone else on an island and yourself on the mainland, But that’s just my opinion. You theory that The Church fell into heresy and stopped teaching the truth or sound doctrine after the first century suggest that Satan prevailed over The Church. I don’t believe he did.

Mary

Not entirely, my point is that God's preserved truth does not reside in one circumscribable, or definable body. I wasn't promoting myself, as I emphatically stated that it is imperative to study from other theologians and scholars. I've read a little Augustine, Aquinas, Chrysosotom, Luther, Calvin, etc.. It was imperative for me to formulate a sound and balanced theology.
Ultimately MM, I am trying to say that I cannot afford to implicitly accept one denomination as holding the infallible truth. There is absolutely no evidence to substantiate that, and a plethora of reasons to deny it. Therefore, I have to investigate them all, and derive my own opinion. A man can go no further than what he understands and perceives as truth. Blind adherence does not please God, or bring Him glory.

 

[DNB]

It’s obvious that sacrificing for the Lord is WAY BEYOND your understanding

I suggest you pray about it . . .

God is not looking for acts of bravado, senseless and superficial acts of piety. He wants us out on the battlefield, obviously!

 

[Renniks]

As for Nicodemus NOT understanding because Christian Baptism was NOT a "thing" yet - this is why Jesus rebukes him:
John 3:9-10
Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel yand yet you do not understand these things?"

These things were obviously not Christian baptism, which didn't exist. He was explaining how salvation is obtained by God washing us clean and us being born anew. Baptism is a symbol of something already accomplished.

 

[Brakelite]

Why does the church condemn Bible societies? Not cos they promote the Bible, but cos they are sources of error and heresy
Inter Praecipuas - Papal Encyclicals

Everyone on this forum should read the link to this encyclical. If you desire to understand why the Catholics on this forum despise biblical authority it is clear because the Bible counters so much of Catholic dogma when understood correctly... When understood without the corrupting effects of tradition and superstition.

What Catholics refuse to acknowledge but what genuine history attests to, is the the scriptures were being disseminated throughout the world before Constantine had his 50 Bibles put together.... Before Jerome translated the originals into Latin. The church was already growing exponentially throughout all Asia, Europe, and as far as Britain to the west, expanding also into Assyria, Persia and India to the east and beyond, and those churches, those hundreds of thousands of new converts to Christ, were not converted by tradition and the Latin Vulgate.

 

[FHII]

God is not looking for acts of bravado, senseless and superficial acts of devotion. He wants us out on the battlefield, obviously!

That is an interesting point. Romans 12:18 says we should live peaceably with all men as much as lieth in us. However, I head a book by (I think Kissinger) on the first thousand years of Christianity that actually looking to become martyrs. There are verses that glorify those who die in the name of Jesus, but I don't believe he meant to go out and look for such an occasion. The goal is to live in peace and I will add to be prosperous (even as our soul prospers). But still.... Don't sell out even if it means your earthly life.

The problem is that there were verses to support this, but it wasn't the proper context. You don't go out looking for trouble but if it comes, you are to remain faithful. Look at Job! He complained, he didn't like it but he never charged God foolishly. Even though, by the human frame of mind, he was right.

Now we have fasting, and that is uncomfortable, but other than that I see no reason to look for any discomfort in life. However, if it finds us we are supposed to praise God anyway.

 

[Brakelite]

That is an interesting point. Romans 12:18 says we should live peaceably with all men as much as lieth in us. However, I head a book by (I think Kissinger) on the first thousand years of Christianity that actually looking to become martyrs. There are verses that glorify those who die in the name of Jesus, but I don't believe he meant to go out and look for such an occasion. The goal is to live in peace and I will add to be prosperous (even as our soul prospers). But still.... Don't sell out even if it means your earthly life.

The problem is that there were verses to support this, but it wasn't the proper context. You don't go out looking for trouble but if it comes, you are to remain faithful. Look at Job! He complained, he didn't like it but he never charged God foolishly. Even though, by the human frame of mind, he was right.

Now we have fasting, and that is uncomfortable, but other than that I see no reason to look for any discomfort in life. However, if it finds us we are supposed to praise God anyway.

Christians are persecuted for their love of Jesus. If people are upset with you because you are obnoxious and a pain in everyone's butt, that is not persecution.

 

[BarneyFife]

heresy is error
Contrary to the truth and therefore cos the loss of the only of the salvation souls

it therefore must be punished with excessive rigor and death

there is OT precedent Elijah killed the false prophets etc.

And there it is, folks.

OT Precedent
​

God told Elijah to kill heretics, and so the Catholic church should be justified in killing heretics.

In our day, maybe? Unless the gates of hell have prevailed against it, it should be A-okay.


The cat is out of the bag.


My dad used to say: "If you talk long enough, eventually you're gonna say something dumb."


"At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others." -- Last Day Events, p. 180