Who founded your church?

[Marymog]

Jerusalem was the main and original church. James was the head, and if there was a problem among the churches, they had to go to Jerusalem to have it decided by James.

Thanks Lady!!

I agree that in the early Church period that Jerusalem was the main and original church and that James was the head of that individual church. That's in Scripture i.e. Council of Jerusalem!!

Where is your evidence that all the other church leaders had to go to see James for him to make a final decision? I can't find that in Scripture or any historical writing!!!

The fact is that it is written in Scripture that it was Peter, not James, at the Council of Jerusalem who spoke for all present and declared We believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they [the Gentiles] will”. Soooo Scripture proves you wrong.

The fact is that YOU quoted Eusebius who said that Peter was the leader among the disciples of Jesus and the principal apostle.

The Fact is I gave you 200+ years of historical Christian writings from other men that backed up what Eusebius said.

But you STILL think James was head of The Church....even though you and I have provided evidence from Scripture and historical writings showing opposite of that????? Fascinating....

Mary

 

[Behold]

You don't have to "bend" anything to understand that Paul is referring the the Gnostic heretics in 1 Tim. 4 and not the Catholic Church that he belonged to.

.

Paul was not a member of any denomination, as denominations didn't exist till long after the original Apostle's were all deceased.

Denominations (Catholic or Protestant) are man made.
Christians, are Christ made.

Sometimes, you really need to just use common sense, BreadofLife, instead of just trumpeting your religious organizations mythology.
Hear me?

See, common sense should inform you that Peter-James, etc... led a group in Rome, that was not "Catholic".
That's easy to understand, as Peter was not a Pope, nor was James, and nor was Jesus.
That bizarre title was given to him by a religious organization....how may hundreds of years after he died?

And Paul was not a part of Peter's - Jame's small group of Roman believers.
See, Peter's group had to hide, as they were killing Christians at that time.... or didnt you know ?
Also... Paul was too busy going everywhere, (being an Apostle) Planting Churches..... which is why he never actually had his "own" particular single Group.
What He did, was get a small group up and running, and go start another one somewhere else.... and then he'd stop back by and see how things were progressing.. some months later, or even years.... (walking was slow, and taking a ship could get you shipwrecked).

And FYI....notice all the Letters of Paul.. .THey were usually written to a "church".........and not one was Catholic.
(no Catholics existed during the time of the Apostles).


Paul set up "churches in houses", till his last few years in house arrest when he could not.

 

[Marymog]

You may go here and be disingenuous again, so that more can see you do it.

Peter the Apostle's = Wife ???

I feel like this is a joke???? Are you messing with me??? Right??

You write a diatribe on a different thread giving your opinion and that is supposed to prove I am being disingenuous????

Sooooo lets try this again only with more facts from me so that maybe your confusion will end: There are married priests sooooo that destroys your required celibacy theory!!

The men that do decide they want to become a priest AGREE to it, no one forces them, and as grown men they KNOW that celibacy is part of the deal.

Sooooooo what don't you understand about that???

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I can see why you wouldn't want to believe actual church history, but that is your choice.

Ummmmmm.....I just provided you with 200+ years of historical writings that back up what I said sooooooooooooooooo how is it that I don't want to believe church history????

 

[BreadOfLife]

Paul said that "Jesus sent me not to water baptize".
Paul is the "apostle to the gentiles".
We are currently living in the "time of the Gentiles".

Also, if you study the "Acts of the Apostles', you'll note the many occasions were conversion happens to mostly Jews.
It all cases, you find that they BELIEVE and are born again, and then, they are immersed.
See, its always like that...as you are born again, and then you should be water baptized.
They are not the same.
See, water follows the New Birth...that is caused by BELIEVING< that God Accepts to then via the Holy Spirit, give the BELIEVER the "new Birth"..
= born again..

Now listen carefully,
i know that you have to bend the bible to try to hide what you believe and what you've been taught.
I know that you have to twist the bible, as you've been taught, to try to hide what your religious organization actually teaches that offends the Cross.
But i know better.., as i know what your religious organization teaches.
So, all this perhaps shows your ignorance, but more specifically is just shows your self deception.

Go here, and learn.

Peter the Apostle's = Wife ???

WRONG - that's not what Paul said.
He said:
1 Cor. 1:17
"For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power."

YOU are the one who added "Water" to this verse because you need to perform Scriptural acrobatics to arrive at your perverted positions.

As for your asinine comment above in RED that Baptism "ALWAYS" comes after being born again in Scripture - this is NOT the case.
There ARE some examples of this - but they are the exception. Acts 2:38 states that the normative rule is that we are Baptized FOR the forgiveness of sins and the reception of the Holy Spirit.

- The disciples in Ephesus in Acts 19:1-7 were Baptized - and THEN received the Holy Spirit.
- Acts 22:16 says that your sins will be washed away upon being Baptized.
- Gal. 3:27 says that we have put on Christ WHEN we are Baptized.
- Rom. 6:3-4 says that those of us who were Baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death so that we may have newness of life.

NONE of these verses indicates that we are saved or regenersated BEFORE we are Baptized - so YOUR false claim that it is "AWAYS like that" is is as phony as the counterfeit Gospel you promote on this forum.

 

[Marymog]

I can see why you wouldn't want to believe actual church history, but that is your choice. I looked up the names of all the "pope" and interestingly none of the desposyni's names are listed. Seems to me, there are two "Churches." I'm sure glad I am not blinded by what man believes. And the word "throne" should be a big hint that you need to rethink your allegiance. Especially when the RCC and Orthodox call Mary by a pagan title. A title that went back centuries before Christ. Queen of Heaven.

Dear Lady,

I am unable to figure out how or WHY you twisted what Eusebious wrote. I suspect some other man taught you this bizarre history that James was the head of The Church......You haven't provided any evidence of it...Just your opinion (or the opinion that was taught you by some man) soooooo I don't know what else to say.....

Wait....I do know what to say.....you need to rethink your allegiance.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Paul was not a member of any denomination, as denominations didn't exist till long after the original Apostle's were all deceased.

Denominations (Catholic or Protestant) are man made.
Christians, are Christ made.

Sometimes, you really need to just use common sense, BreadofLife, instead of just trumpeting your religious organizations mythology.
Hear me?

See, common sense should inform you that Peter-James, etc... led a group in Rome, that was not "Catholic".
That's easy to understand, as Peter was not a Pope, nor was James, and nor was Jesus.
That bizarre title was given to him by a religious organization....how may hundreds of years after he died?

And Paul was not a part of Peter's - Jame's small group of Roman believers.
See, Peter's group had to hide, as they were killing Christians at that time.... or didnt you know ?
Also... Paul was too busy going everywhere, (being an Apostle) Planting Churches..... which is why he never actually had his "own" particular single Group.
What He did, was get a small group up and running, and go start another one somewhere else.... and then he'd stop back by and see how things were progressing.. some months later, or even years.... (walking was slow, and taking a ship could get you shipwrecked).

And FYI....notice all the Letters of Paul.. .THey were usually written to a "church".........and not one was Catholic.
(no Catholics existed during the time of the Apostles).


Paul set up "churches in houses", till his last few years in house arrest when he could not.

The Catholic Church isn't a "denomination".

It is the original Tree from which Protestantism splintered and continues to splinter to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to be "The Church".

Paul and the rest of the Apostles belonged to that Original Tree . . .

 

[Behold]

I can see why you wouldn't want to believe actual church history, but that is your choice. I looked up the names of all the "pope" and interestingly none of the desposyni's names are listed. Seems to me, there are two "Churches." I'm sure glad I am not blinded by what man believes. And the word "throne" should be a big hint that you need to rethink your allegiance. Especially when the RCC and Orthodox call Mary by a pagan title. A title that went back centuries before Christ. Queen of Heaven.

The Council of Ephesus in 431 sanctioned the cult of the Virgin as Mother of God.
This is interesting because it was in this same location that the Goddess Queen of Heaven, Diana, was worshipped.
In fact, the was a huge church/temple located in Ephesus, that was her temple that existed from 7bc till about 400AD ish, tho it was destroyed and rebuilt at least 2x, maybe more..
The goddess Diana, this very figure is known as "the Queen of Heaven".

The term "cult of the virgin" or the "cult of Mary" was a title created not by me, but by the Council of Ephesus...(Catholic).

 

[Behold]

The Catholic Church isn't a "denomination".

It is the original Tree from which Protestantism splintered .

The religious organization that you are referring to, has a previous name, which is the original.
You should stay with the original, as its more indicative of the truth.

Its this.. The Council of Ephesus in 431 sanctioned the cult of the Virgin as Mother of God.

Notice..."cult of the Virgin"..

Later this name of your "tree" was reformed and remodeled and given a new religious moniker. "catholic'.

I prefer "cult of the virgin" as that was what the Original " church Fathers" chose for its title, as this accurately represents its denomination.

If you need an update, then go and find member = Marymog (Mary-mother of God) as she's up to date regarding the original denomination.

If you are still confused, then just do a general online search of this...

Mariology

 

[Behold]

WRONG - that's not what Paul said.
He said:
1 Cor. 1:17
"For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel,

= Water Baptism.

Paul said that Christ did not send him for this purpose.
He did not say that he didnt water baptize.
So, what he's doing is showing you how important its NOT, as compared to "preaching the Cross" as found in the rest of the verse you quoted.
And why is that , BreadofLife?
Why is the city water system that is used to get people wet, not as important as "Preaching the Cross". ?

Its this....

"faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God".

Now, notice the context of FAITH, in that Verse..
Its the REASON, the Word of God is preached.
To ELICIT -= FAITH, as you are saved by "Grace THROUGH FAITH."
"Faith is COUNTED AS = Righteousness".
See that?
"Abraham BELIEVED GOD"......that is FAITH, and this faith was counted to Abraham AS = Righteousness.

So, when you hear the Gospel, and you BELIEVE, then God accepts this FAITH, to : "Justification by FAITH"...which is the Gospel that Paul was Preaching, that is to "preach the Cross".

No water anywhere.
None needed, and then, its good to be water baptized after you are born again..., as this symbolically represents in Public, not only your confession of faith in Christ,, but also that you have SYBOLICALLY risen with Christ as a "new Creation".

 

[The Kreisel]

every denomination is a Demon Nation -
the 'non-denominational denomination' too.

 

[Brakelite]

As you pointed out there were many men who separated from The Church over the centuries to start their own churches

No, that's not what I said. They were there from the beginning, they separated from no-one. Rather, it was Rome that separated from them.

if I call your 500 year teaching.

My teaching comes from scripture and verifiable history. And the teachings of the reformers wasn't new. They were bringing back truths, and attempting to reform the church to is original condition and purity. Sadly they didn't go far enough. That work of reformation continues today, the reformation isn't over despite the declarations of Protestant and Catholic heretics

Where does Scripture say that "Baptism is a public declaration of the death of the 'old man'"?

I see where Scripture says that "baptism now saves you"....nothing about "old man"! Also, I don't see where it says one has to be Baptized in public....unless you can show me that passage????

Prayerfully and carefully read Romans 6.

It is the original Tree

No. There were other trees throughout the world having no connection to or affiliation to Rome. You of all people here ought to know that.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Ummmmmm.....I just provided you with 200+ years of historical writings that back up what I said sooooooooooooooooo how is it that I don't want to believe church history????

The true church heads are not in Catholic history. Hmmmmm

 

[CharismaticLady]

The Council of Ephesus in 431 sanctioned the cult of the Virgin as Mother of God.
This is interesting because it was in this same location that the Goddess Queen of Heaven, Diana, was worshipped.
In fact, the was a huge church/temple located in Ephesus, that was her temple that existed from 7bc till about 400AD ish, tho it was destroyed and rebuilt at least 2x, maybe more..
The goddess Diana, this very figure is known as "the Queen of Heaven".

The term "cult of the virgin" or the "cult of Mary" was a title created not by me, but by the Council of Ephesus...(Catholic).

They called it a "cult"? Where is that written?

Edit: Never mind - I found it.

 

[Behold]

every denomination is a Demon Nation -
the 'non-denominational denomination' too.

Denominations are man made.
Catholic, Protestant.......
Christianity is Christ's Blood made.

There are no denominations in Heaven.
There is only God, Christ, the Host of Heaven, and the born again.

How do you discover if you are the product of a denominational entrenched mentality. ??

Here is the test...

Ready???

Lets say i find you and i ask you......"Are you a Christian"?

And you say....>"Yes, im a Catholic, Im a Baptist, Im a Mormon, Im a JW, Im a Lutheran, Im a Assembly of God".

Now notice...
I didnt ask you what denomination you belong to.....

ah...

 

[The Kreisel]

II Peter 3:16 As also in All his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrestle with, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[The Kreisel]

Denominations are man made.
Catholic, Protestant.......
Christianity is Christ's Blood made.

There are no denominations in Heaven.
There is only God, Christ, the Host of Heaven, and the born again.

How do you discover if you are the product of a denominational entrenched mentality. ??

Here is the test...

Ready???

Lets say i find you and i ask you......"Are you a Christian"?

And you say....>"Yes, im a Catholic, Im a Baptist, Im a Mormon, Im a JW, Im a Lutheran, Im a Assembly of God".

Now notice...
I didnt ask you what denomination you belong to.....

ah...

not even profound.
I'm of the Order of Melchizedek.

 

[Brakelite]

@Behold @CharismaticLady Genesis 3:15 reads, And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. (AV)
That portion of the text that reads in the AV, it shall bruise, in reference to the seed of the woman, in the LXX reads,
And I shall be in your means, and in the middle of the woman, and in the middle of your sperm, and in the middle of her sperm; He will keep your head, and you will keep it.
In the Greek, the word for seed, being in all other cases in the OT, a neuter noun, is translated in this one verse, as he.
What is even more interesting, is that in the Latin Vulgate translated from the Greek by Jerome in the 4th century, translated that one word as she.
In other words, what Jerome was declaring in his loose translation (which the Catholics claim is the only accurate Bible) is that she, the woman, shall bruise Satan's head. This false lying depiction, an Antichrist (replacing Christ) depiction of the gospel, been celebrated in art since. I am sure you both remember well the many depictions of Mary with her foot on the head of the serpent.

 

[theefaith]

Well, they all died.

They left no successor.

All we have is the words of the dead Apostles and Prophets left, and living Jesus, being the Chief.

So, the head is only Jesus, the living Chief.

And Jesus said to his apostles behold I am with you till the end, so the apostles are here till the end. Matt 28:19

 

[DNB]

How does praying and fasting benefit the Body of Christ (2 Sam. 1:12, Esth. 4:16, Luke 2:37, Luke 4:2-4, Acts 13:2-4, Acts 14:23)??

Are you serious - or are you just being puposely obtuse?

Prayer & Fasting may assist the individual person who practices these disciplines, but how in the world does another one's fasting benefit you?
You're not going to reply with another non-sequitur, or eisegeted passage, are you?