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Featured 'Who is able to make war with him?'

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by charity, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:
    and they worshipped the beast, saying,

    "Who is like unto the beast? [therion = a wild beast (G2342)]
    Who is able to make war with him?'

    (Rev. 13:4)

    Hello there,

    In the days in which we are living I can envisage a nation rising up, of whom it will be said, 'Who is able to make war with him?' This monstrous kingdom by which Gentile dominion in the earth will end. All of the nations appear like so many wild beasts, of which Nebuchadnezzar is symbolic, who became as a wild beast for seven times (Daniel 7:25).

    Does anyone have anything to share on this?

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris



     
  2. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is possible to reach your conclusion in todays world, that a nation will rise up that no other nation will want to go to war against.

    However, the Rev_13 prophecy that you referenced in the OP above is still a distant future event IMHO. Looking for a nation today seems a pointless exercise if it is still over 1,000 years into our future.

    Shalom
     
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  3. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Jay Ross,

    I was simply expressing my feelings, about the nature of the times, but I am not seeking to reach conclusions. :)

    What I want is input from those who have studied this subject. However, I intend to do my own study (God willing) and then I will be in a position to contribute something worthwhile.

    Thank you for your input.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. The verse you have quoted "Who is able to make war with him?" - means that there will be no nations on earth who will be able to go to war against the Antichrist and Satan for 3 1/2 years (see all of Revelation 13). They will have absolute control of all nations and all their armies, as well as all the inhabitants of the world. This is under God's allowance and permission.
     
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  5. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Hi Charity,

    I don't know how familiar you are with global power, but are you aware that if you have a hazardous material which needs to be shipped within the continental U.S. that you DON'T follow the Department of Transportation (DOT) guidelines? Nope, you follow U.N. guidelines.

    Are you aware that if Lee Iacocca wanted to refurbish the Statue of Liberty that we wouldn't have to get Department of Interior approval. Nope, he'd have to get U.N. approval.

    Are you aware that the U.N. has jurisdiction over 23 United States national treasures?

    1. Mesa Verde National Park
    2. Yellowstone National Park
    3. Kluane / Wrangell–St. Elias / Glacier Bay / Tatshenshini-Alsek
    4. Grand Canyon National Park
    5. Everglades National Park[​IMG]
    6. Independence Hall
    7. Redwood National and State Parks
    8. Mammoth Cave National Park
    9. Olympic National Park
    10. Cahokia
    11. Great Smoky Mountains National Park
    12. La Fortaleza and San Juan National Historic Site
    13. Statue of Liberty
    14. Yosemite National Park
    15. Chaco Culture National Historical Park
    16. Hawaiʻi Volcanoes National Park
    17. Monticello and the University of Virginia
    18. Taos Pueblo
    19. Carlsbad Caverns National Park
    20. Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park
    21. Papahānaumokuākea
    22. Monumental Earthworks of Poverty Point
    23. San Antonio Missions

    Are you aware that the U.N. Security consists of FIVE Permanent Members, with another FIVE in the "wings"?

    Permanent Membership on the Security Council
    1. U.S.
    2. U.K.
    3. France
    4. Russia
    5. China​


    NOMINATED for Permanent Membership on the Security Council *
    6. Germany – economic power
    7. Japan – economic power
    8. Brazil – regional representative for S. America
    9. Nigeria – regional representative for Africa
    10. India – regional representative for the Near East​

    * “The Road To Reform: Towards A New Clarity,” U.N. Chronicle, MI, Vol. 30, Issue 4, December 1993, pp. 45-46​


    Do you see a theme? Are YOU aware of any entity which can fight against this GLOBAL power? :)


    Bobby Jo
     
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  6. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hi Charity,

    I have seen this very thing said about the USA... But that has changed... The beast is restless under the reings,,,.

    Interesting times coming indeed...
     
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  7. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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  8. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hi there,

    The first fact that I have found concerning the Beast of Revelation, is that there is a comparison that can be made between Genesis and Revelation in regard to the Beast, with Nimrod:-

    * Nimrod: a rebel and ruler, anti-God, the founder of Babylon (Genesis 10:8-10)

    'And Cush begat Nimrod:
    he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
    He was a mighty hunter before the LORD:
    wherefore it is said,
    Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
    And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel,
    and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.'

    (Gen 10:8-10)

    * The Beast: a rebel and ruler, anti-God, the reviver of Babylon (Revelation 13 & 18)

    -------------------
    Further Notes:-

    Nimrod (Heb. Marad) means rebel.

    Josephus:-
    'Nimrod persuaded mankind not to ascribe their happiness to God,
    but to think that his own excellency was the source of it.
    And he soon changed things into a tyranny,
    thinking there was no other way to wean men from the fear of God,
    than by making them rely upon his own power.'


    The Targum of Jonathan:-
    'From the foundation of the world none was ever found like Nimrod,
    powerful in hunting, and in rebellions against the Lord.'


    * The Jerusalem Targum:-
    'He was powerful in hunting and in wickedness before the Lord,
    for he was a hunter of the sons of men, and he said to them,
    'Depart from the judgement of the Lord,
    and adhere to the judgement of Nimrod!'


    * The Chaldee paraphrase of 1 Chronicles 1:10:
    'Cush begat Nimrod, who began to prevail in wickedness,
    for he shed innocent blood, and rebelled against Jehovah.'

    *
    Nimrod was the founder of Babylon,
    which partook of his character as being the great antagonist
    of God's Truth and God's People.

    * This would seem to have been Satan's attempt to raise up a human universal ruler of men. There have been subsequent attempts throughout history, but he will finally succeed in the person of the Anti-Christ.

    * I found these comparisons interesting in regard to determining the character of the Beast.

    Thank you.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris

    Ref. Bible Appendix
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  9. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Hey Charity,
    Just so you know, the U.N. is not strictly secular. It's cited in Daniel 7, Daniel 11, Rev. 13, & Rev. 17. I just gave you the Global Power which you requested. Now if you want the Scriptural contexts, I'd more more than glad and CAPABLE to provide them to you as well. :)

    Bobby Jo
     
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  10. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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  11. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    ... and just to be clear:

    Daniel 7, -- the fourth Dreadful Beast
    Daniel 11:45, -- the "he" who shall come to his end
    Rev. 13, -- the "beast" with seven heads and ten diadems
    Rev. 17, -- the "eighth" that was and is not because it has NO geography, NO populous, and NO army​

    It pretty much starts with Daniel 2 which is supplemented with Daniel 7:

    1. Gold, Babylonia -- 1 of 5 has fallen
    2. Silver, Medo/Persian -- 2 of 5 has fallen
    3. Bronze, Grecian -- 3 of 5 has fallen
    4. Iron, Roman -- 4 of 5 has fallen
    -- Clay, "divided"
    -- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S. -- 5 of 5 has fallen from preeminence
    -- 6. Bear, Russia -- "one is" when it attacks Israel
    -- 7. Leopard (actually a "Tiger"), China -- "is yet to come" when it spanks Russia
    -- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations -- "was and is not", and has NO Geography, NO Populous, NO Army, etc.

    9. Great Stone, Jesus' Millennial Kingdom
    10. New Jerusalem, eternity in Heaven​

    ... and you're right, the view MUST be BOTH secular (Historical) and Scriptural! :)

    Bobby Jo

    PS The "mouth" is the U.K./U.S. because they're proficient in Trade, Finance, Science, & Technology; China is the "body" because it has the Most Population; and the Russia is the "feet" because it has the Most Land Mass (Canada = 3M; U.S. = 3M; China = 3M; RUSSIA = 8 MILLION SQUARE MILES).
    Everything GOD does is by DESIGN. :)
     
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  12. 07-07-07

    07-07-07 Active Member

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    Emmanuel Macron of France is a strong candidate to be the beast of Revelation. There are three world leaders on the stage at this very moment who meet their respective Biblical qualifications to fulfill their respective roles: Emmanuel Macron (false Messiah), Pope Francis (false Prophet) and Vladimir Putin (Gog). Only time will tell if these are the actual figures to fulfill the Scriptures. However, given all the other end-time signs nowadays, these three figures are a high probability to fulfill the Scriptures.

     
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  13. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    @Bobby Jo
    @07-07-07

    Hi there,

    Thank you both, but I must confess to feeling confused now. :)

    I will work my way through the relevant scriptures, and take time to process everything.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  14. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    A couple of little things I do see in response to the two posed questions, not relating directly to the external nations or countries of carnal men but certainly pertinent:

    Who is like unto the beast?

    "Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish." Psalm 49:12

    Who is able to make war with him?

    How about who could defeat him?
    "She [Wisdom = antecedent from verse 1] hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:2


    So then we should be always for God so that we are fighting with Him who is already for us and then we need not concern ourselves with those beasts which will be killed by wisdom. The beasts to kill are our own, no matter what else may be happening outside of us:

    "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?" Rom 8:31

    As to where to encounter wisdom:

    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom..." Psalm 111:10
     
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  15. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    God does not deal in fiction, however, He does speak in parables. This is done by Him to hide the truth from the eyes and ears of those people He does not want to see, and hear His message with understanding. This is pointed out in Matthew 13:11-14.

    Within Revelation chapter thirteen there is a great deal of symbolism used. It reveals the coming into existence of a one world system, and at the completion of its growth, that world wide system is ruled by Satan the Antichrist, in a religious capacity. In fact, most of the Christian world will actually think that Satan is Jesus Christ. God uses this symbolism so that those who really don't care to study Scripture, will be deceived.

    This chapter speaks of two beasts, but when we separate the two beasts, we see one is a political beast, while the second and last beast is a religious beast. The political beast is a political system, and today it is alive and ruling under the name of "One-worldism". It's title is called the "United Nations". It is under the banner of the United Nations, and it's governing agencies the the entire world is getting together; to work for their so-called "peace".

    Through the control of the Kenite organization called the "United Nations", peace talks are carried on in China, North Korea, Ireland, the Middle East, Africa, Europe, Haiti, and on and on. There is peace, peace, talked about everywhere, and it is all brought about to draw all nations of the world into, and under the United Nations control, and that of it's agencies. The peace presented by them and their people is not acceptable in any agreement, unless it meets the United Nations agenda.

    Revelation 13:1 "And I [John] stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

    This is John's vision, and the sea that John is standing on and the beast is rising out of represents the masses of peoples of the world. This symbol of the "sea" being people is documented in Revelation 17:15. This "sea", or masses of people are looking to this "beast"[political beast] as their peace system. The "seven heads" are seven dominions of the people, or seven continents of this world body; as even the activities and divisions at the North and South Poles are governed through the United Nations Charter. It covers the entire world land masses.

    "Horns" are always symbolic of "power". These "ten horns" are ten agencies, or units of power flowing from this beast, or political system. These horns are the Military force, the world health organization, UNICEF for children, the world bank, the world court, and so on. This is very similar to the system of government given in Genesis 11, under Nimrod.

    The "Kenites" pulling strings within the United Nations are trying to bypass God, and create their own salvation. The "Ten crowns" are ten men, or heads of large governments, such as President Clinton, Don Majors of England, and men of Russia, China, Japan, and so on. Each of these men are giving their authority over to the United Nations willfully. This is what the war with Iraq was all about, the yielding of sovereignty to the United Nation, which Saddam refuses to do.

    That war was a test of all nations to join in, and give their power over to the UN, for the cause of filling the United Nations agenda. The forces that joined against Iraq, are also causing the trading boundries to disappear world wide, and they make up this political beast. We have the one world political system now in position, and in control. The world is now in the process of being divided into its new horns of power, and the divisions will change present boundaries into new dominions of power.

    This system, and governmental order is the same as Satan used in the first earth age, as we saw and read in Revelation 12:3 however there are some major differences Notice that in Revelation 12:3 from the first earth age that the seven heads [individuals] wore the seven crowns. where by in this earth age, under the political beast of the United Nations it is not individual rulers that have the crown but the horns of power, the agencies. They exercise their authority by what the agenda of their agencies are.

    Revelation 13:2 "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

    Though the one world political system is in place and functioning as a governing body, after it is considered reliable, something will come about to bring down that government.

    In the Song of Moses" in Deuteronomy 32:5, the "leopard's spots" are shown to be different than that of God's children's spots. The elect of God know their Messiah, where as those who are not sealed in their minds can not tell the difference between the two, Jesus and Satan. This system is controlled in all ways by the leaders, Kenites. Their control is through the four hidden dynasties or hidden governments, which are focused on Economics [banking, trade and industry], Education, Politics, and Religion.

    This political beast has the "feet of a bear", and we know that has to be Russia [Esau]. The mouth of the beast is the "mouth of a lion", which will tare it's prey with his lies and deceitfulness. "And the Dragon gave him his power," and we know the Dragon from Revelation12:9 is Satan. The driving force within "one worldism" is Satan, with the Kenites, Satan's kids, doing the work. As our young men fight for the United Nation's Forces, we know now what the fight is all about.

    We also know the Dragon is the force in every agency of the United Nation, and this is allowing us a better understanding why they do what they do. This is why we see them picking, and selecting what they hold dear, while allowing millions of other people to be slaughtered. The Kenites with their satanic agenda sets the course.

    Remember also that this one world system is compared to the Babylonian kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar's day. And just as that kingdom was set up by God to discipline the house of Judah, so also this Kenite kingdom of the end times is to test and discipline the people of this time.

    revelation13
     
  16. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Hey Charity,
    When you have so many who would confuse/deceive/distort/deny, it's hard to pick the real $20 bill from the counterfeits. As such please allow me to suggest that you pay attention to the small details.

    For example, MANY of the posters in this Forum ascribe a Daniel Chapter 2 4a/4b. The basic premise is that we'll have a Revived Holy Roman Empire which consists of the European Union. And the TEN TOES which fulfill this prophecy are apparently for not, because the EU has 28 members, and another 7 applicants and candidates. Furthermore Daniel 2:45 provides the sequence Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE, for which the Clay "divided kingdom" has a residue of Iron exactly history accounts for, because the Roman Empire was never conquered. It simply dissolved, and the disparate kingdoms, fifedoms, communities, and villages had no NEW model, and simply retained the Roman Republic, exactly as evidenced in our bicameral forms of government today (... and to the Republic for which it stands ...).

    Secondly, if we consider that China is a "Leopard", how can that be?!? And that answer is equally simple. In Daniel's day the African Trade route included exotic animals including circularly marked cats. But because there was no trade route to India, when Daniel saw a vertically marked cat, his only point of reference was a circularly marked cat. SO YOU THEN SAY, -- I thought China was a DRAGON!! And that is TRUE -- for the Emperor. But the ARMY is the TIGER (vertically marked cat). And where one of China's significant contributions is marching 200M men against Gog & Magog (Russia), it makes sense that the TIGER (vertically marked cat) is noteworthy. -- And please note that in WWII the American Volunteer Group (AVG) was known as the Flying Tigers, -- among many other China/Tiger associations.

    So when someone posts their nonsense, don't read what they say, -- read what they're NOT telling you. Look for specifics, and you won't find any. And if you wish to query any additional specifics, -- PLEASE DO. I'd be MORE than happy to help you find your way along the path which GOD has in HIS Scriptures for the welfare of you and your family, such that you should suffer no loss!

    With Best Regards,
    Bobby Jo
     
  17. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    @amadeus
    @n2thelight
    @Bobby Jo

    Thank you all for your contribution to the subject of the thread. I cannot comment on anything said at the moment. Perhaps later today I will have had time to consider everything carefully, and be in a position to comment.

    I just want to acknowledge your efforts, and thank you for your time.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  18. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    hmm, you dont think the Gentile kingdom is the kingdom in view?
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    !

    bc we cant think of a country that no one wants to go to war with today, huh JR?
     
  20. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @amadeus,

    You appear to be spiritualizing this, yes? Bringing it into the realm of the believer's life experience, in Christ Jesus. Rather than viewing it as describing powers and events prophetically, which will take place in the course of world history.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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