Who is Jesus Christ?

[Robert Gwin]

Kingdom Hall is not my god.

John 1 The Word was God.

What is the beginning sir? Notice your verse is contradictory, as it also states the Word was with God, so is the rendering of some versions more accurate by translating it a god?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Says Kingdom Hall?

Doesn't take but a simple walk of fingers sir, go to Blue Letter Bible, and research Ps 110:1, perhaps you don't want to know, is this the case?

 

[Robert Gwin]

We???

Those of my faith sir, we are united in our beliefs.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Now you're catching on!
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

"Figuratively", Kingdom Hall propaganda!

Why worship a god who is going to torture as many as the grains of the sand of the sea eternally? I won't. If he is that way, I will be right there beside you sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The verses I shared say, yes! Of course. Do you ?

No maam, I agree with Peter who knew Jesus intimately:
(Matthew 16:16, 17) . . .Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Joʹnah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did.
Jehovah revealed it to me as well maam.

 

[Robert Gwin]

OK, I understand.

So then when the Gospel writer said that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, he was wrong, about that, because Jesus promised another baptism to come that would be different?

John the Baptist himself addressed this. I baptize you with water, but One stands among you, Whose shoe I'm not worthy to untie, Who will baptise with the Holy Spirit, and with fire.

These are two different baptisms. To assert that when John baptised Jesus it was somehow different than what the Bible plainly states not only shows disbelief in the clear teaching of Scripture, but it also prevents one from seeing the real depth of what Jesus did in this world and on our behalf. He shared in everything, even in the baptism for repentance unto the remission of sins.

The Pharisee's didn't see this as an "anointing" baptism. They refused to submit to it, doubtless thinking, How dare this man tell us we need to repent of sins!

Jesus shared in our reproach, here in John's baptism, and of course, on the cross. Our Creator was on a mission to join us together with Himself.

Much love!

Yes sir, two different baptisms, most Christians receive water baptism, whereas only those redeemed from the earth receive both Rev 14:1-3

 

[Robert Gwin]

Why? Michael is the archangel, isn't he?

Much love!

Oh . . . and who is "we"?

Yes sir, only one and of course the highest. We are those of my faith Mark. I am one of Jehovah's witnesses.

 

[Robert Gwin]

It is a translation, not an alteration.

Who is the LORD Wrangler?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Note: it’s late at night as I write this, but later I will document all my points with scripture:

Who is Jesus?

Jesus is the one born of a virgin in Isaiah, who is the mighty God and everlasting Father.

He is co-creator of the world, and of everything that was made in the beginning in Genesis 1.

To leave heaven and come to earth as a man, He voluntarily left the form of God that He had by His very nature, and emptied Himself, setting aside all use of His divine power, and took the form of a humble servant.

After He left Gods form to take mans form, Yahweh became the Father of Jesus when He made a body for God the Logos to be born in.

Mary is the woman chosen by God to birth the body Yahweh made.

As a man on earth who set aside all use of His divine power, thus Jesus didn’t start His ministry of healing the sick, raising the dead, and casting out demons, until He received the Holy Spirit at His baptism.

He thereafter did His miracles by the Dunamis power of the Holy Spirit, that Father Yahweh anointed Him with. Acts 10:38

His main purpose for coming to earth as a man, was to to call sinners unto repentance; and give His life a ransom for many.

But while on earth as a servant and man, His secondary purpose was to be an example of how His followers can receive the same Holy Spirit Dunamis power Acts 1:8, He was anointed with to do His mighty works Acts 10:38, and to teach us how we should live.

He died physically on a cross, the sinless one for sinners, and took our place.

While His physical body was in a tomb on the surface of the earth, His spirit descended into the heart of the earth, where He preached to the spirits in prison.

These spirits were the Old Testament saints, for lack of a better term, who were held in a holding chamber in hades, because no soul could ascend to heaven until Messiah atoned for sins.

This chamber was called Abraham’s bosom, aka paradise, which is where the thief on the cross went.

When He rose, he emptied out paradise, which is why many saints also arose and went into the city, after His resurrection, whom He took with Him to heaven.

His resurrection was visible bodily, and He appeared for 40 days to His followers, who worshipped Him, before He ascended visibly and bodily to heaven on a cloud from Mount Olive - and this same Jesus will return to mount Olive at His second coming, exactly the same as He left, and will bring all the saints from heaven, with Him.

He will be seen by every eye when He returns on that cloud. Revelation 1:7

Now paradise is in heaven, and souls of the redeemed go straight to heaven, and Jesus will bring those souls from heaven with Him at His second coming.

I appreciate your well thought out words Curtis, and fully understand them, we understand these things quite differently, but I thank you so very much for taking the time to respond.

 

[Wrangler]

Who is the LORD Wrangler?

LORD ≠ Lord. The LORD God is our Creator. The Bible has many lords (lowercase) besides Lord Jesus and there are many lords outside of the Bible, e.g., Lord Vader, Lord Voldemort, Lord Cornwallis. Jesus was chosen by God, sent by God, told what to say by God, raised from the dead by God and given all authority by God.


13 The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus
Acts 3:13

31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
Acts 17:31

49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.
John 12:49

The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”
Psalm 110:1

 

[marks]

Yes sir, only one and of course the highest. We are those of my faith Mark. I am one of Jehovah's witnesses.

OK, thank you for your clarification.

For myself, Micheal being an angel is below Jesus, not, "is Jesus". Jesus was above angels, and then was lower than angels, to then again receive is prior glory, a Name above all names.

This is only one of the very many reasons I know Jesus and Michael are different, and that Jesus is exalted over ALL created things. Of course through Jesus were all things created that were created, therefore, we know, Jesus is not a created thing.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . and the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us. This is not Michael the Archangel, this is God the Word, who became flesh, and lived with man.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes sir, two different baptisms, most Christians receive water baptism, whereas only those redeemed from the earth receive both Rev 14:1-3

So then you realize your assertion of Jesus receiving an "annointing baptism" from John lacks any Scriptural support? And therefore must be someone's idea about it, but not what the Bible teaches?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . and the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us. This is not Michael the Archangel, this is God the Word, who became flesh, and lived with man.

You don't recognize figurative language when you read it? Beings are not words. There is no God Word, only God the Father. His word became flesh. This is not the same at all as trinitarians suppose God incarnate. As Moses put it in Dt 18:15-18, God will put his words in a prophet he chooses among the people. Jesus is that prophet.

 

[marks]

You don't recognize figurative language when you read it?

May'haps yes, and may'haps not?

En arche hn hos logos, actually has more meaning to me than the English, just the same, we do read from translations.

What is your understanding of "the beginning"? What was this beginning in which was the Word? Which was with God? Which was God?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

What is your understanding of "the beginning"? What was this beginning in which was the Word? Which was with God? Which was God?

You do know that beings are not words, right? It is figurative language referring to God's words. The beginning that John is referring to is that of Jesus ministry - just like the other 3 Gospels.

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God
Matthew 2:5-6 They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet
Luke 1:2 Just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us,​

I've explained this many times, it is the beginning of Christianity's end game of universal restoration. Jesus is the first born of this universal restoration The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Colossians 1:15. The first of others to follow. We, like Jesus, are children of God. John 1:12. NOTE: "The Father" does not send or chose Jesus but God, in his unitarian nature.

18 God was at work in all this, fulfilling what He had predicted through all the prophets—that the Anointed One would suffer. 19 So now you need to rethink everything and turn to God so your sins will be forgiven and a new day can dawn, days of refreshing times flowing from the Lord. 20 Then God may send Jesus the Anointed, whom God has chosen for you. 21 He is in heaven now and must remain there until the day of universal restoration comes—the restoration which in ancient times God announced through the holy prophets.
Acts 3:18-21 (Voice)

 

[marks]

You do know that beings are not words, right? It is figurative language referring to God's words. The beginning that John is referring to is that of Jesus ministry - just like the other 3 Gospels.

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God
Matthew 2:5-6 They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet
Luke 1:2 Just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us,​

I've explained this many times, it is the beginning of Christianity's end game of universal restoration. Jesus is the first born of this universal restoration The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Colossians 1:15. The first of others to follow. We, like Jesus, are children of God. John 1:12. NOTE: "The Father" does not send or chose Jesus but God, in his unitarian nature.

18 God was at work in all this, fulfilling what He had predicted through all the prophets—that the Anointed One would suffer. 19 So now you need to rethink everything and turn to God so your sins will be forgiven and a new day can dawn, days of refreshing times flowing from the Lord. 20 Then God may send Jesus the Anointed, whom God has chosen for you. 21 He is in heaven now and must remain there until the day of universal restoration comes—the restoration which in ancient times God announced through the holy prophets.
Acts 3:18-21 (Voice)

That's an interesting translation you are quoting from.

By Jesus everything was created that was created, so He was not himself created. There are many things like this. And of course His contemporaries had no question about Who Jesus was claiming to be.

"Firstborn over creation" is figurative, right? Position, prominance, but not that he was birthed from creation, right? Created? No, through His all things that were created . . . well, you know the rest . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God

This of course specifies "the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ".

John 1:1 simply says, "In the beginning", a non-specific, and therefore, absolute, In the beginning.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

That's an interesting translation you are quoting from.

Thanks! I really love the VOICE translation. It's very emphatic. Its translation of Ephesians 4:29 most convicts me of any verse in the entire Bible of any translation. Coming out in 2012, it did not have a study Bible variant but has integrated clarifying comments in the Scripture directly as italics and other notes put between verses.

Also, I love how the manuscript format makes it totally clear who is talking.

By Jesus everything was created that was created, so He was not himself created.

Of course Jesus was created. Men are created beings. Fathers create sons. See John 3:16 & Acts 13:33. Jesus called himself Son of Man, which means man. He was a man and the Bible says it repeatedly.

It is not Creation but universal reconciliation of Creation that goes through God's Anointed. This is the primary significance of Jesus being given all authority - after he was resurrected in a glorified body - by God. It was on that day that Jesus became God's son as was foretold in Psalm 2:7 and fulfilled in Acts 13:33.

 

[Wrangler]

And of course His contemporaries had no question about Who Jesus was claiming to be.

No. Read Matthew 16. Only Peter knew Jesus was the Anointed One, the Son of God (never God incarnate). The Big Reveal of Jesus Ministry was that he claimed to be the long awaited chosen Son of God, the Messiah, the Anointed One (not that he was God incarnate). He told his disciples time and again not to tell anyone he was the Messiah (not God incarnate). He also told those he healed not to say.

High Priest: Are You God’s Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of the Blessed One?
Jesus: I am.
Mark 14:61-62 (VOICE)

This is NOT the great I am.

 

[Wrangler]

"Firstborn over creation" is figurative, right?

No. Jesus is the first step in the universal restoration, the first to be resurrected in a glorified body. Friend, this is the very heart of the Good News! Trinitarians have totally distorted the significance of Jesus' resurrection. If God incarnate was killed and came back to life, it would be no big deal since he is all powerful. But for our gracious God to resurrect a man into a glorified, eternal body, that is the hope of all of mankind!

Again, see Acts 17:31 & 1 Corinthians 15:23-28. We are God's chosen children. See 1 John 3:1. Proof text against trinitarianism John 17:22 (VOICE) All the glory You have given to Me, I pass on to them. May that glory unify them and make them one as We are one

In no way does being 'one with God' mean any of us, including Jesus, is God. It just means God's Spirit is in us. (And there is no 3rd person). The Epistles opening only acknowledges (1). the LORD God, our Father and (2). his Son, our master (or lord).