Except that the Bible says that through Jesus all things were created, that were in fact created. Jesus did not create Himself. He is the Creator, Who is here before anything was created.
Much love!
Who is Jesus Christ?
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Much love!
They picked up stone to kill him with because they understood that "you, a mere man, make yourself out to be God!" That was their complaint. I think they'd know, being the one's listening to Him. And rather than easily correct them, "No, that's not what I meant", he, what, dishonestly? allowed them to go on thinking He meant something He didn't mean?
If Jesus is not God, then He was guilty of presenting and then continuing to support a blasphemous view of Himself. IF He isn't God.
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Does the Bible say that? Or is that what trinitarians want the interpretation of Scripture to be?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This is such an odd take given the level of education today. One does not have to be God to be guilty of blasphemy.
There is this desperation that one verse may overturn the 5,000 times God is identified using the singular pronoun and the Shema, which Jesus articulated explicitly in Mark. The true God is one. The 1C most especially applies to trinitarianism's man-is-God thesis.
Is that what you want to think?
Anyone can play at that.
"Intellection dishonesty" gets tossed around without a thought sometimes, I fear!
Does the Bible say that? Yes it does.
Colossians 1:12-18 KJV
12) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Much love!
What I'm saying is the Jesus would have been guilty of promulgating blasphemy by speaking in such ways as to cause His listeners to think He was saying He was equal to God, and not correcting them when they said this was what they understood Him to be saying.
I'm not sure what today's level if education has to do with this, only, that they don't seem to be teaching logic and critical reasoning much anymore.
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
That’s odd because I explained it very clearly. You are speculating that a supposition ought to over turn the fact that the entirety of the Bible, written wholly by Jews, who are monotheists and reject trinitarianism to this day.
Maybe Jesus could have handled every situation recorded in the Bible in a way that meets your standards. Speculation and supposition does not change anything and educated people know this.
Educated people know this . . . appeal to . . . oh nevermind . . .
OK. The Jews haven't recognized Jesus as their Messiah, and they didn't then, witness their execution of Him.
They didn't know their Messiah, neither then nor now. And this is evidence that what they understand about Jesus and the Father is right?
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You are putting aside Scripture, the Word of God, to speculate to advance your false doctrine.
Deflection.
You could even narrow it down to, Such and such soldier drove the nail. But what really happened there?
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
LOL. Jesus is not God. He was the son of God. The son of Joe Biden is not Joe Biden.
Logic
Definition
Language usage.
When Jesus called Himself the Son of God, they picked up stone to stone Him, 'because He, a man, was making Himself equal with God'. So then if you want to go with the prevailing Jewish thought of the time, it was that Jesus was claiming Deity.
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I realize that is the trinitarian line but not actually contained in Scripture. Said differently, attributing motives to why people do a thing does not validate their motive.
This is called Circular Reasoning. January 6th people stormed the capital because they thought the election was stolen. This is evidence that the election was stolen, right?
Mob thought is notoriously incorrect.
You mentioned that my thinking that Jesus is God went against the prevailing Jewish thought. The prevailing Jewish thought at the time when Jesus was talking about Himself personally with people here on earth, they understood Him to be making Himself equal to God. It's what they understood from listening to His words.
No, that's not what makes it true. Jesus's words are sufficient for that. If Jesus said, I believe it's true. The people who were standing there listening to Him, even though they didn't believe Him, they understood that was what He was saying. That was WHY they wanted to kill Him.
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Jesus was a Jew born under the law. You think Jesus violated the Shema or any of the Commandments? I don’t.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Good. Jesus said if he were to glorify himself that would mean nothing. John 8:54.
Trinitarians claim Jesus glorifying himself means EVERYTHING. Jesus says it means nothing. Do you believe Jesus?
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