Who is Jesus Christ?
- Thread starter Robert Gwin
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"Not glorifying Himself" seems a loose statement to me. Jesus speaking of Himself, is that wrong somehow?
I don't really understand your second question.
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Really? In the Spirit of humility not glorying himself seems a loose statement to you?
Come on man! Don't retreat into generalities. It is not a question of right or wrong but of having truth or weight. The point of John 8:54 is not merely Jesus talking about himself but glorifying himself. Specifically, IF he were to glorify himself, he says it would mean nothing. My question is :
- do you believe trinitarian dogma that says Jesus words mean EVERYTHING (the ultimate glory) - that he is claiming to be God incarnate; or
- do you believe Jesus at John 8:54, that any statement he makes about glorifying himself means nothing?
Let's review what the 2nd question is:
If Jesus claiming to be God is not an example of Jesus glorifying himself, what would Jesus have to say in order for you to conclude that he is glorifying himself? (I think this question is so difficult for you because you have been so immersed in trinitarian double speak for so long, you automatically take Scripture to be the trinitarian take. That is, you don't even realize the Scripture could be saying something OTHER THAN supporting trinitarianism.)
It does, actually.
Glorifing, by, "making boastful claims"? You'd say that about His statement to be the Son of God, if you were one of those pharisees at that time. By causing beams like lightening to shine from His face? His appearance as brass in the furnace? Glorify Himself by taking His throne and beginning to rule?
What if He is God come in flesh? And He tells the people, He is the Son of God, and they know full well what that means? Is this to glorify Himself? That some would come to believe that He is Who He says He is? The Chosen Servant? Immanuel?
So then define what you mean by "glorify Himself". I say He's talking about Himself, you say that if He were talking about Himself, but saying that He is "Almighty God", this would be to glorify Himself.
He didn't actually use those words, He said, Son of God. But as already noted, they knew exactly what He was saying.
You are trying to impugne the doctrine based on your sense of it violating Jesus' righteousness, that in giving any clue that He was God come in flesh, that this would be to "glorify Himself", thus negating everything He was there doing? Something like that?
Remember something also, Jesus only spoke what He heard the Father speak. So these words He said, that He is the Son of God, these came from the Father.
Is your objecting then that if Jesus actually were God come in flesh, that He would have never let on for moment that this was so?
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I don't play the What If game. God never became flesh. God never prophesied that he would become flesh. The idea that God in flesh prays is absurd on its face.
You obviously don't want to answer questions as you just come back with questions of your own.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Who is the Chosen Servant chosen by? God.
Clearly, your embrace of duality makes dialogue impossible.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Right. They knew what Son of God meant ≠ God. Son of God meant the Anointed, the long awaited Messiah.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No. Consult your favorite lexicon. If you are ignoring Jesus words at John 8:54, and has not practical application, you do so at your own risk.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I think we are done. Your inability to answer question but merely reply with your own ends this. IF Jesus were God in the flesh, he would not have called himself the Son but the Father and he would not have uttered John 8:54.
Actually, they picked up stones to kill him, "You, a man, make yourself to be equal to God." That was their take on it. I've heard yours. You've heard mine.
I think I agree with you, yes, we're done.
Much love!
John says He did.
John 1 The Word was God ...
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
Johns is one, which is the water baptism that sooner or later most Christians accept Mat 8:19 and then you have the baptism of the holy ones which is reserved only for those who are selected to be the bride of Christ:
(Matthew 3:11) . . .I, for my part, baptize you with water because of your repentance, but the one coming after me is stronger than I am, whose sandals I am not worthy to take off. That one will baptize you with holy spirit and with fire.
Hope that helps Marks.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Came across this golden nugget in today's devotional reading. The Bible is filled with such verses, which indicates 2 beings in the normal use of language. The Son of Man is the 3rd person language, not God's plan.
22 The Son of Man is going to his death according to God’s plan, but woe to that man by whom he is being betrayed!”
Luke 22:22 (CJB)
22 The Son of Man is going to his death according to God’s plan, but woe to that man by whom he is being betrayed!”
Luke 22:22 (CJB)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Reading comprehension. John 1 does not say that God became flesh. Obviously, you did not watch the video I posted multiple times. Also obvious is you ignore how John 1 fulfills Dt 18:15-18.
Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Who was it who "Took upon him the form of a servant"?
Much love!
Would you mind showing the passages of Scripture which teach this doctrine?
Just go ahead and post the entire verses, so we can look at them together.
Much love!
What is it that leads you to think that John baptized Jesus with a "baptism of anointing" which you've associated with the baptism in the Holy Spirit after Jesus' ascent to heaven?
Considering that baptism wasn't performed by John, by his own words?
I'm still thinking that Jesus was associating with sinful man, doing all things that were appointed to sinful man, including John's baptism.
The baptism in the Spirit, according to Jesus, was something they needed to wait for.
Many people thing there this coming for them a "baptism in the Spirit", however, according to the Bible, there is one baptism for the church, and that baptism is into Jesus Himself, this is from Ephesians 4 and Romans 6. We can go over the passages if you like.
Much love!
Yes. Do you know what Immanuel means?
Isaiah 7:14 “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” King James Version (KJV)
Matthew 1:23 “Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.” King James Version (KJV)
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