Who is Jesus Christ?

[Robert Pate]

Well yes, that's the whole point with grace, because the worst of all can still be saved by the blood of Christ. Ted Bundy, I think, honestly repented, and admitted after years of denial that his blood lust came from his exposure to pornography and due to his strong sex addition.

Christ died for all, for those who repent as well as for those who won't. But it wouldn't make sense to die such a hideous death if it wasn't for the worst of sinners who could then be saved.

I don't think any of us can anticipate who will be Lost unless they reveal their inward predisposition towards God Himself and His lordship. Some who will be lost seem to like His presence and power. Some who will be saved seem most irritated and angered by God's presence and word.

So like I said, we can't really judge anybody regardless, and what our position is on Calvinism has very little effect. We know some will be saved and some will be lost. When God determines they will be lost, either in their lifetime through their choices or before they're even born is pure theory or opinion. Take care.

I like the example of the thief on the cross. All he said was "Remember me when you come into your Kingdom" Nothing about being sorry for his sins, just remember me. You would think that the religious would read about that and be saved.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I like the example of the thief on the cross. All he said was "Remember me when you come into your Kingdom" Nothing about being sorry for his sins, just remember me. You would think that the religious would read about that and be saved.

Oh yea. That's a "fly in the ointment" of dead religious people who rage over the salvation of those they've judged as inferior to themselves. Great example of the truth about Grace!

It is a choice from the heart, and not necessarily a lifetime proving repentance. Believing in Christ is like a marital commitment. It's a love born at the beginning, and not proven at "death do us part."

I don't know why those who will be Lost refuse to accept Christ. I believe all people are free to choose. They are not predestined to choose wrong.

The thing that is primarily predestined, in my view, is God's choice to have a certain number of followers. God, in my view, cannot fail. He will save saint and sinner among those He originally planned for.

But I fully admit that such beliefs can extend into the area of theory and upset good Christian relationships. I don't wish for any "theorizing" to lead to unnecessary divisions.

And so, I cherry pick the best out of each position on the subject. On Arminianism I select Free Choice. On Predestination I select God's Choice. My opinion only.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Jesus said, "For if you believe not that I am "HE" you will die in your sins" John 8:24. What was Jesus saying? Who is the "HE"? When I first became a Christian, I was not really sure about who Jesus Christ was. I knew that he was the Son of God, but that was it. I wrestled with the belief that Jesus was God. How could Jesus be God when he appeared to be an ordinary man. But he was not an ordinary man. Ordinary men cannot raise people from the dead. Ordinary men cannot feed five thousand people with next to nothing. Ordinary men cannot heal the sick. Ordinary men do not say, "Before Abraham was, I am" John 8:59.

After extensive study I concluded that Jesus was the physical manifestation of God. The scripture said, "For in him (Jesus) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" Colossians 2:9. The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus is God. Not everyone believes that Jesus is God. I have found that those who do not believe that Jesus is God usually belong to the organized church. There is a reason for this. Those that belong to an organized religion are not able to live by faith alone. This is especially true of Catholics. Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Living by faith alone means to believe the Gospel, no laws, rules or religion needed.

RELIGION: "An indication of the absence of faith". A quote from one of the most prominent Christian scholars of our time, Robert D. Brinsmead. Religion is a safety net for those that cannot live by faith in Christ alone. The thinking is that just in case Jesus is not God maybe I will be saved by my religion, (WRONG). If we are not saved by Christ alone, we are not saved. Jesus plainly said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man can come to the Father, but by me" John 14:6. Do what I did. After I learned the truth about Jesus Christ I renounced by religion and now trust in Christ alone.

Good morning Robert, How are you all? Religion: BibleGateway - Keyword Search: Religion

James 1

Faith Obeys The Word

19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[Behold]

Calvinism is anti-Christ. If you have been predestinated before the foundation of the world, then who needs Jesus Christ and his Gospel?

Exactly.

Anr that same fact, regards water baptism, the same way.
We, the born again, ..should be water baptized subsequent to our Salvation..., and we understand that this is symbolic, and its a public confession of our faith in Christ.
Its not to be BELIEVED upon, as if the water has magical powers.
Yet, billions of people have been taught by "water cults".... that "no water, no salvation"...

Many of these will point to Acts 2:38, as their argument, yet, because they dont read their bible, they have not understood that Peter was not water baptized in Acts 2, nor anyone in the upper room, and yet they all received a gift of the Spirit.....

Heretics count on the fact that their followers are not students of the bible, of the NT, of Paul's epistles.]
And that is why they can deceive them.. easily.

 

[Behold]

I consider myself a virtual Calvinist,

God births Christians.

Calvin then deceives them, but, he'll deceive an unbeliever also.

 

[Behold]

Children who do nothing more than wish to live apart from God may be predestined to live outside of God's paradise, because they won't, by spiritual endowment, want to live too close to the One who controls them. This is called "Outer Darkness"--not Hell. It is not just something one is born with, but also something that one acts upon. But their punishment will be no greater than what their deeds deserve. Some stripes will be heavier, and some will be lighter.

Reading Your bizarre rambling Theology (post)..... sounds like... A JW and a Mormon got together and just started making stuff up.


Listen, @Randy Kluth , noone deserves God's Forgiveness..
Not one of us... But Because God is rich in Mercy, He has shown his love for the un-lovely, and has given His Son for the unworthy.
We are all that, .....

See, being born again, does not make us worthy of it, it just makes us righteous and "accepted in the Beloved".

The reason people go to hell, is not because their sin is somehow worse then someone elses....

The reason people go to hell is because they are not born again, as if you are not born again then you dont belong to God., You're not His Son/Daugher, so, you end up where those who dont belong to God, end up.

Once the Born again belong to God, by Spiritual Birth....then Eternal Life is now theirs.

 

[Randy Kluth]

God births Christians.

Calvin then deceives them, but, he'll deceive an unbeliever also.

Thank you for your *opinion.* We may form a consensus doctrine in *eternity.*

 

[Behold]

Thank you for your *opinion.* We may form a consensus doctrine in *eternity.*

Its not an Opinion that God makes Christians.
He spiritually births them. = Each and every one.. and that's not an opinion.
Thats' "born again".

And J. Calvin is a SATANIC, Cross Denying Heretic, whose followers, are deeply deceived.
They are so deceived that they have a Mental COMPULSION to announce that "Im a virtual Calvinist", on Forums.
or "im a Calvinist'...
And that is also, not an opinion.
You're the Proof., and so are they.

Ask them.

@brightfame52 will be happy to tell you that he's a Calvinist.

I can take you to so called "christian" Forums that are nothing but a angry hateful, Cross denying nest of Calvinist's,...who are all just waiting and hoping a new believer will show up and Join, so that they can infect them with John Calvinism.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Reading Your bizarres rambling Theology..... sounds like... A JW and Mormon got together and just started making stuff up.

Listen, @Randy Kluth , noone deserves God's Forgiveness..

I don't wish to play semantics games like that. Of course only Christ was worthy to save mankind. Nobody disputes that, if they call themselves a real Christian at all.

However, the word "deserves" can be used in a different sense, as is the case here. One may deserve to be heard if he makes a call, and does not deserve to be heard if he doesn't make a call.

When people call out for Jesus to save them, they "deserve" to be heard by Jesus. This is *not* the same thing as saying they deserve, on their own merits, to earn Salvation. They have simply met *Jesus' criteria* for them to be heard. And in that sense they now "deserve" to be heard.

I can make another less-associated example to avoid confusing this with "earning Salvation." A person deserves his pay from his employer if he does his assigned work. In doing this, he is not saying God *must* have his employer pay him because he has earned the right to it.

People who long to live in God's presence forever deserve to be there, and this not by our standard alone, but mostly because it is God's standard. That is what He requires in order for us to obtain Eternal Life. We do not deserve it, but we've met God's criteria.

We must believe in His Son. If we do, we "deserve" to have Eternal Life on the merits of Christ alone. As I said, this is a semantics issue, and doubt we can get very far beyond these perhaps inadequate examples.

Not one of us... But Because God is rich in Mercy, He has shown his love for the un-lovely, and has given His Son for the unworthy.
We are all that, .....

See, being born again, does not make us worthy of it, it just makes us righteous and "accepted in the Beloved".

The reason people go to hell, is not because their sin is somehow worse then someone elses....

The reason people go to hell is because they are not born again, as if you are not born again then you dont belong to God., You're not His Son/Daugher, so, you end up where those who dont belong to God, end up.

Once the Born again belong to God, by Spiritual Birth....then Eternal Life is now theirs.

Like.

 

[Randy Kluth]

And J. Calvin is a SATANIC, Cross Denying Heretic, whose followers, are deeply deceived.
They are so deceived that they have a Mental COMPULSION to announce that "Im a virtual Calvinist", on Forums.

I don't think your judgmental opinions here are edifying at all. I can't see Paul or any of the Apostles condemning fellow Christians as "Satanic" like this.

Paul did make a strong argument for Grace, void of "Works." But Calvin did not teach "Salvation by Works." Quite opposite to this, Calvin taught the classic Protestant doctrine of Justification by Faith. You might even have to thank him somewhat for your own view on that?

Regardless, it would be nice if you would tone down the hateful rhetoric?

 

[Behold]

Of course only Christ was worthy to save mankind. Nobody disputes that, if they call themselves a real Christian at all.

I appreciate that you are here to try to do some damage control.

However, the word "deserves" can be used in a different sense, as is the case here. One may deserve to be heard if he makes a call, and does not deserve to be heard if he doesn't make a call.

Everyone is..= ."all have sinned".
So, that denies anyone being worthy of God.

However, because God is Love, == God .."so loved the world (of people) that He Gave Jesus to us all"..

All who will believe in Jesus shall be saved and receive eternal life.

"our Faith is counted as (Christ's) righteousness"

"Justification BY Faith", and not by water or works.

When people call out for Jesus to save them, they "deserve" to be heard by Jesus.

OUR faith gets what IT deserves..

"Faith is counted as (Christ's) righteousness."

We please God by Faith., not by works.

See, there is no work that a born again Christian can do, that an unbeliever can't do.
Unbelievers can pray, they can give, they can preach, they can sell bibles......they can work with street Orphans.
A lot of unbelievers do more good on this earth then a lot of christian denominations will ever do.
Works are just Works......... but FAITH is something else, as this is a HEART Change, whereby the heart has repented from Unbelief to : Faith in Christ", and God HEARS that.. and takes it from there.

Phlippians 1:6

I can make another less-associated example to avoid confusing this with "earning Salvation."

Jesus is Salvation.
John 14:6
You can't earn that one, and you can't be that one.
But you can give God your faith in Christ and become a "join Heir with Jesus" as a "New Creation in Christ". "ONE with God".

People who long to live in God's presence forever deserve to be there,

What you wrote, makes no sense to anyone but you.

As we are all in God's Presence, as God is everywhere, but.... Not everyone is born again INTO God and Christ, Spiritually.

We must believe in His Son. If we do, we "deserve" to have Eternal Life on the merits of Christ alone.

God never gives us the Gift of Salvation because we "deserve it".
This is why its called "the GIFT of Salvation"

 

[Behold]

I don't think your judgmental opinions here are edifying at all.

Calvinism is a "doctrine of Devils'... Hebrews 13:9.

You can't change that by being a "Virtual Calvinist".

See how that works? @Randy Kluth

I can't see Paul or any of the Apostles condemning fellow Christians as "Satanic" like this.

You said He was a Christian.

I didnt.

I said he is a Satanic, Deceiving, Cross Denying, Heretic..... who is a Spiritual Cancer on the Body of Christ for about 500 Yrs.

Between the "cult of Mary" creating the "Dark Ages" .....and John Calvinism Theology, we find the 2 ULTRA "Doctrines of Devils".

What they created, trickled down into Protestant Churches and tainted them, spoiled them., ruined them. = (most) not all.

Quite opposite to this, Calvin taught the classic Protestant doctrine of Justification by Faith.

J. Calvin is typical of any Satanist, who is a clever Devil.
He mixes in some truth, with error, and those who are not real students of Paul, or of Soteriology, are "bewitched" by this Liar, and his Cross Rejecting Theology.

Regardless, it would be nice if you would tone down the hateful rhetoric?

One man implying "hateful rhetoric".... is another man's understanding of Why Jesus took a Whip and drove people out of a Temple in Jerusalem.

One newbie christian who is implying.. "hateful rhetoric" ....is another bible Student's clear understanding of why Paul caused a Male Witch to go Blind, and Paul the Apostle said of some that they were "dogs".
Hes that same one who wrote most of the New Testament Epistle's, including Titus 3:10 that says to kick a heretic out of the Church, and never let them back in the door, after you deal with them 2-3 times..
You can't do that on forums, so, that is why so much Heresy, lives on forums.
On forums, its 'anything goes", regarding the most Christ offending Theology......but what is not "tolerated" is.. "you are not being nice".
So, that is a pathetic situation, but, that is what you find on "christian" Forums....worldwide.

I will have to say, that THIS FORUM.... recently, seems different.
Can't put my finger on it.......but i noticed that after i came back here recently, after about 2 months being more focused on what has happened to my beautiful people in Israel......this Forums seems more "tight'.. And i mean, it seems that their is less tolerance now for people preaching and teaching obvious Christ Rejecting and Cross Rejecting "rants".
Im very thankful.

And finally .....One baby Christian implying "hateful rhetoric"..... is another Student of the word's understanding of why Jesus said "you are of your father the Devil".

 

[Randy Kluth]

I appreciate that you are here to try to do some damage control.

Not damage control--just peace offering. Blessed are the peace-makers.

"Justification BY Faith", and not by water or works.

This is your mantra, and I respect that. However, this gets repetitive. Our problems are all about semantics. "Works" for Protestants has a technical application. But for James "works" had a different application. You are obviously not interested in discussing semantics.

God never gives us the Gift of Salvation because we "deserve it".
This is why its called "the GIFT of Salvation"

As I said, this is a semantics issue. I agree that only Christ was worthy of earning our Salvation. I do not agree that mankind or Christians cannot "deserve" anything good. I don't think we are "totally depraved," as some define it. Have a nice day.

 

[Behold]

Not damage control--just peace offering. Blessed are the peace-makers.

You started the fire, so, its on you to deal with it.
Thats good.
You should.

The thing that has to be explained regarding Calvinism, is just how much it is Theological poison.

And here is a FYI for you.. .All "christian" Cults try to attack the Cross, by replacing it, or denying it, or by adding to it.

What is interesting about cults..also.... is that they prey on people who dont study the bible, until they are in the cult.
And then they study the cult's commentaries, and say,... "Yeah i study the bible".

Listen, ..... you can't become born again, today, having never read a bible, and then you go read the bible and become a Calvinist.
That does not happen.
You dont become a Catholic by bible reading.

A.) Cults capture you, with their...>"truth", and once they cause you to SEE verses as they LIE THEM TO BE... then you believe the lie and those verses then seem to you, to be exactly what the cult teaches.
Then you study their commentaries, and before long, you are gone.
= No way back, unless someone like me, is able to pry open the theological mind lock.
Its a lot of work, and not many can be freed, and that is why Paul says to keep them out of the Local Church.
They'll just infect others in it, with "CULT" theology, and that is a fire raging once its gets going in the membership, and then you have a "church split", or worse.
That is what ONE Deceived person can to to a local assembly.
Just takes one.

Also, the bible has to be "spiritually discerned", not read like a newspaper or a dictionary, as the bible is a book of LIGHT and REVELATION>.
The words are a whole lot more than just letters on a page that make up sentences.


So, Why does that happen to people, because of a bible .. @Randy Kluth

Its because the bible is a spiritual book, and when you get it wrong, "wrongly divide".... its a type of "bewitching" and "spell", that happens against your mind, because Satan uses the power of the word in a twisted way that blinds the mind to Truth.

Here is what happens, (example) when a water cult person, who is not actually born again,... yet is very cult trained, regarding some verses in the bible.
Here is how they SEE....

Notice this verse..

""""The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us""""

That verse is talking about Noah and the Flood. AS its a "figure" = SYMBOLIC....
So a water cult person, will say..."see, the water saved Noah" = "water baptism saves".. "water washes sin away"... and on and on, they go with it.

But the verse shows us that the ARK.. .Noah's Ark, kept Noah and family OUT of the water... As had it not, then the water would have KILLED Noah and His family.
So, we SEE the verse, as "the ARK saved NOAH"< as Noah's Ark is symbolic for the CROSS of Christ.

See the flood is God's Judgement against sin.. and the Cross is God Judging Jesus for our sin.
Both the Cross and the Ark, are a Sanctuary, against God's JUDGMENT.
(but thats another Thread, located somewhere in my Threads)

Now.... the "water cult", reads the verse literally, and says..>>"the water saved Noah"... "water baptism saves you".

That is what the "cult of mary".... teaches as "baptismal regeneration", and they use the Flood water as "water baptism", saving Noah.
That is one of their verses that they say proves that Water Saves, "washes away your sin".

Its almost silly, how cult's create "crazy theology" from bible verses, but, .. its what they do.
And Millions believe them.

. But for James "works" had a different application.

Heretics teach that "dead faith" is = "you lost your salvation."
James doesn't.
James teaches that :.... "I'll show YOU my faith by my works".
That's not "semantics"....that's James's teaching.

The "YOU", is ... all the people who watch you, as they are evaluating you in life, by your deeds, and online you are evaluated by what you teach.

Notice that when James is talking about bearing fruit...>"works"... He says...>"I'll show YOU">... my faith by my Works'..

He does not say..>"i'll show GOD" ... and why does he not say "God"?
Because God does not look at your works., as your works are self effort and can be faked.
God only looks at your heart., whereas people can't see your heart, but they can see that you do WORKS, that a "Christian" should do, unless your faith is dead, and you are not doing them.
So James says to show them that your faith is not dead by doing '""works.""

I do not agree that mankind or Christians cannot "deserve" anything good.

We were not discussing humanity deserving "good".
Our conversation was ... "deserving salvation".........or at least that is what im talking about.
And a SINNER does not deserve God's Grace., but that does not stop God from doing this........

A.) "Jesus came into the world to SAVE Sinners"..

(not those who are repenting and trying to be good).

 

[Randy Kluth]

You started the fire, so, its on you to deal with it.

No, I didn't start a fire. I didn't agree with your negative view of Calvinism. Obviously, I favor Calvinism and would defend it to the degree I agree with it.

I'm not interested in your aggressive way of discussing things. Otherwise, I'd be happy to indulge you. If you don't acknowledge the need to be "edifying," then why listen to your explanation as to what the Bible means?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Jesus said, "For if you believe not that I am "HE" you will die in your sins" John 8:24. What was Jesus saying? Who is the "HE"? When I first became a Christian, I was not really sure about who Jesus Christ was. I knew that he was the Son of God, but that was it. I wrestled with the belief that Jesus was God. How could Jesus be God when he appeared to be an ordinary man. But he was not an ordinary man. Ordinary men cannot raise people from the dead. Ordinary men cannot feed five thousand people with next to nothing. Ordinary men cannot heal the sick. Ordinary men do not say, "Before Abraham was, I am" John 8:59.

After extensive study I concluded that Jesus was the physical manifestation of God. The scripture said, "For in him (Jesus) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" Colossians 2:9. The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus is God. Not everyone believes that Jesus is God. I have found that those who do not believe that Jesus is God usually belong to the organized church. There is a reason for this. Those that belong to an organized religion are not able to live by faith alone. This is especially true of Catholics. Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Living by faith alone means to believe the Gospel, no laws, rules or religion needed.

RELIGION: "An indication of the absence of faith". A quote from one of the most prominent Christian scholars of our time, Robert D. Brinsmead. Religion is a safety net for those that cannot live by faith in Christ alone. The thinking is that just in case Jesus is not God maybe I will be saved by my religion, (WRONG). If we are not saved by Christ alone, we are not saved. Jesus plainly said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man can come to the Father, but by me" John 14:6. Do what I did. After I learned the truth about Jesus Christ I renounced by religion and now trust in Christ alone.

12-18-23

OP Who Is Jesus Christ?

1 Timothy 3:16​

​

​

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Robert Pate]

12-18-23

OP

Who is Jesus Christ?​

Who Is Jesus Christ? - Bing

La búsqueda inteligente de Bing facilita la búsqueda en menos tiempo de todo lo que buscas y, además, te da premios.

www.bing.com

Love, Walter

Thanks Walter, but I don't need a book other than the Bible to tell me who Jesus Christ is.

 

[Gottservant]

Jesus is the One, that keeps being Jesus - everyone else would rather be someone else (apart from God).

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Thanks Walter, but I don't need a book other than the Bible to tell me who Jesus Christ is.

Hello Robert, About the link, Bing changed it, I should have checked, it was not the same one.

 

[Behold]

I favor Calvinism and would defend it

Spoken like one of His Deceived.

Not a good place to be...., but, you dont understand why, and i dont think that's going to change for you, @Randy Kluth

But at least you finally showed us the root cause of your failed Theology.