Who is Jesus Christ?

[Robert Pate]

Jesus said, "For if you believe not that I am "HE" you will die in your sins" John 8:24. What was Jesus saying? Who is the "HE"? When I first became a Christian, I was not really sure about who Jesus Christ was. I knew that he was the Son of God, but that was it. I wrestled with the belief that Jesus was God. How could Jesus be God when he appeared to be an ordinary man. But he was not an ordinary man. Ordinary men cannot raise people from the dead. Ordinary men cannot feed five thousand people with next to nothing. Ordinary men cannot heal the sick. Ordinary men do not say, "Before Abraham was, I am" John 8:59.

After extensive study I concluded that Jesus was the physical manifestation of God. The scripture said, "For in him (Jesus) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" Colossians 2:9. The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus is God. Not everyone believes that Jesus is God. I have found that those who do not believe that Jesus is God usually belong to the organized church. There is a reason for this. Those that belong to an organized religion are not able to live by faith alone. This is especially true of Catholics. Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Living by faith alone means to believe the Gospel, no laws, rules or religion needed.

RELIGION: "An indication of the absence of faith". A quote from one of the most prominent Christian scholars of our time, Robert D. Brinsmead. Religion is a safety net for those that cannot live by faith in Christ alone. The thinking is that just in case Jesus is not God maybe I will be saved by my religion, (WRONG). If we are not saved by Christ alone, we are not saved. Jesus plainly said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man can come to the Father, but by me" John 14:6. Do what I did. After I learned the truth about Jesus Christ I renounced by religion and now trust in Christ alone.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

AMEN !

Fewer and fewer ppl believe that Jesus is God !
They are not his but are on the broad way leading to destruction by way of their man made religions.

 

[Robert Pate]

AMEN !

Fewer and fewer ppl believe that Jesus is God !
They are not his but are on the broad way leading to destruction by way of their man made religions.

Yes, Jesus said, "Broad is way that leads to destruction, and many there be that go that way" Matthew 7:13.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I'm certainly not down on religious organizations. Organizing is part of life, and can be good or bad. But I found your questioning Jesus as God interesting. (Yes, organization can replace Faith.)

I was raised to believe Jesus is God, and didn't really think about it until I reached adulthood. I came to the same conclusion you did, that everything he did sounded like God Himself. Never has a man been like this, claiming divine attributes without a hint of arrogance.

What really helped is when I began to read some of the Church Fathers on the discussions of the Trinity and Christology. My conclusion is that God is by nature a revelatory Being. By that I mean that He is the Word and can simply imagine something and produce it. Kind of like Green Lantern--he just takes his ring and makes it out of His own divine imagination.

In this case He imagined us and then imagined Himself among us as a fellow man. Can He do this? He did it. The evidence is all over the Scriptures, the Gospels, and history.

 

[Robert Pate]

I'm certainly not down on religious organizations. Organizing is part of life, and can be good or bad. But I found your questioning Jesus as God interesting. (Yes, organization can replace Faith.)

I was raised to believe Jesus is God, and didn't really think about it until I reached adulthood. I came to the same conclusion you did, that everything he did sounded like God Himself. Never has a man been like this, claiming divine attributes without a hint of arrogance.

What really helped is when I began to read some of the Church Fathers on the discussions of the Trinity and Christology. My conclusion is that God is by nature a revelatory Being. By that I mean that He is the Word and can simply imagine something and produce it. Kind of like Green Lantern--he just takes his ring and makes it out of His own divine imagination.

In this case He imagined us and then imagined Himself among us as a fellow man. Can He do this? He did it. The evidence is all over the Scriptures, the Gospels, and history.

Creation is evident that God is real. The big bang theory is an atheist fairy tale.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Creation is evident that God is real. The big bang theory is an atheist fairy tale.

I have no idea how God specifically created the universe, the earth, and man. If He can create things out of nothing, and is an infinite Being, He can do it any way He likes. The important thing about what He did is the story line. Are we on the side of the redeemed? Yes we are.

 

[Robert Pate]

I have no idea how God specifically created the universe, the earth, and man. If He can create things out of nothing, and is an infinite Being, He can do it any way He likes. The important thing about what He did is the story line. Are we on the side of the redeemed? Yes we are.

I have a book "The Gospel in the Stars". Missionaries in remote places on the earth report that people know about Jesus before they have a chance to tell them about him. They say that the Gospel is written in the stars.

 

[Behold]

1.) Psalm 19

"the Heavens DECLARE the Glory of God.. and the constellations (firmament) show's God's hand in/as the creation"

2.) The "southern cross", is in the constellation : LIBRA , and old time Mariners would find the souther cross as it defined "south" and once you know where south is, you can find N/W/E and you can find your way HOME.
Or find Orien's Belt, and draw a straight line (3 stars as a "belt" = you've found NORTH

3.) There are 12 Constellations., And the Hebrews (OT) referred to them (Job 38) as Mazzoroth. (Zodiac).

4.) Zodiac, is the word that means "steps" or "the way" or "the road".

5.) In the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, Christianity is titled "the Way". = John 14:6

6.) Notice Virgo and Leo. This is #1 and $12.. So, Virgo is "virgin", and this is the Virgin born Son... and Leo... the Lion, is Jesus to return as "the Lion of Judah", and .. the brightest start in the Constellation LEO< is in the Lion's FOOT, and that is because the Virgin's SON shall crush the serpent's head with his HEEL.. .and that is the foot.

 

[Robert Pate]

1.) Psalm 19

"the Heavens DECLARE the Glory of God.. and the constellations (firmament) show's God's hand in/as the creation"

2.) The "southern cross", is in the constellation : LIBRA , and old time Mariners would find the souther cross as it defined "south" and once you know where south is, you can find N/W/E and you can find your way HOME.
Or find Orien's Belt, and draw a straight line (3 stars as a "belt" = you've found NORTH

3.) There are 12 Constellations., And the Hebrews (OT) referred to them (Job 38) as Mazzoroth. (Zodiac).

4.) Zodiac, is the word that means "steps" or "the way" or "the road".

5.) In the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, Christianity is titled "the Way". = John 14:6

6.) Notice Virgo and Leo. This is #1 and $12.. So, Virgo is "virgin", and this is the Virgin born Son... and Leo... the Lion, is Jesus to return as "the Lion of Judah", and .. the brightest start in the Constellation LEO< is in the Lion's FOOT, and that is because the Virgin's SON shall crush the serpent's head with his HEEL.. .and that is the foot.

The bible is amazing.
Be sure to study it, as it has a lot more to show you every time you study it.

Right. I have been studying it for over 50 years. There is nothing else like it.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I have a book "The Gospel in the Stars". Missionaries in remote places on the earth report that people know about Jesus before they have a chance to tell them about him. They say that the Gospel is written in the stars.

I once listened to a person explain how Chinese writing shows, in its symbols, the story of the Garden of Eden, the Fall of Man, etc. I really don't know how true these stories are, but I'm convinced that God's Word is everywhere present, speaking to the hearts and consciences of people.

It is not God's fault that people, influenced by their own sinfulness, obstruct God's message to the human conscience. By nature people tend to want to be free of any constraint, including the restraint of God's Word.

But yes, I think God has "gotten there" even before missionaries do. Otherwise, they would not even receive the testimony that missionaries bring.

The truths of God are everywhere, and sometimes we simply have to be made to focus, in order to face up to our own moral failures. Clearly, when God reaches out to some of us, we cannot refuse. He just wants to give us the comfort of His own love.

 

[Robert Pate]

I once listened to a person explain how Chinese writing shows, in its symbols, the story of the Garden of Eden, the Fall of Man, etc. I really don't know how true these stories are, but I'm convinced that God's Word is everywhere present, speaking to the hearts and consciences of people.

It is not God's fault that people, influenced by their own sinfulness, obstruct God's message to the human conscience. By nature people tend to want to be free of any constraint, including the restraint of God's Word.

But yes, I think God has "gotten there" even before missionaries do. Otherwise, they would not even receive the testimony that missionaries bring.

The truths of God are everywhere, and sometimes we simply have to be made to focus, in order to face up to our own moral failures. Clearly, when God reaches out to some of us, we cannot refuse. He just wants to give us the comfort of His own love.

Paul said that the lost are without an excuse, Romans 1:20.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Paul said that the lost are without an excuse, Romans 1:20.

That's worth an "Amen." Not that I relish the idea, but strongly agree that the games people play with God are just games.

 

[Robert Pate]

That's worth an "Amen." Not that I relish the idea, but strongly agree that the games people play with God are just games.

Can you imagine what it is going to be like for the lost in the judgment? The judge will say, why didn't you accept Jesus as your savior? They will not be able to answer.

 

[Behold]

Can you imagine what it is going to be like for the lost in the judgment? The judge will say, why didn't you accept Jesus as your savior? They will not be able to answer.

Calvinism has an answer for that one.

They can say..."Well, God, you didn't pre-destine me as one of your elect". "you chose me before i was born, to be a Christ Rejector"...

"So God, Mr Calvin told me to tell you...THATS ON YOU">....


However, i dont think God will agree with Mr Calvin.

 

[Robert Pate]

Calvinism has an answer for that one.

They can say..."Well, God, you didn't pre-destine me as one of your elect". "you chose me before i was born, to be a Christ Rejector"...

"So God, Mr Calvin told me to tell you...THATS ON YOU">....


However, i dont think God will agree with Mr Calvin.

Your right. But it is really sick. What kind of a God would predestinate trillions to hell before they are born? Not the God of the Bible.

 

[Behold]

Your right. But it is really sick. What kind of a God would predestinate trillions to hell before they are born? Not the God of the Bible.

Amen.

You see the "SICK" that is Calvinism.

Its SICK on many levels.

First of all, much of it, is a stone cold lie.

And Calvin does not just lie about the Cross as "limited atonement"....... He lies about GOD, Himself.
He teaches that God causes the evil in this world.

Rape, incest, 1400 Jews Slaughtered recently in Israel, Hate, Bigotry, Lying, Fear, envy, murder.. .all of it.. is "pre-destined" by God to happen.

Welcome to : Calvinism.

Its ugly when you SEE IT...

So, when a person realizes just how terrible is, John Calvinism at the core.... you just have to wonder how anyone can be a PROUD CALVINIST, but MY GOD are they proud of it..

They Create FORUMS just to infect people's minds with Calvinism.

There are a few of them on this forum, who post all the time..

Ive been on many Calvinism Forums, but not for long......
These people, who are truly Calvinistic, worship him, as if he wrote the bible, as if he's some superior holy being.

They are "bewitched".... As Paul teaches.. in Galatians 3:1

The first Calvinist i ever tried to help... was long ago....

If you have seen the Movie.....>"The Boy Who Could Fly".... Its a '80s movie
One of my favorites.
Well, i tried to help the actor, who played the boy, as he's a hyper calvinist.
He could not hear me, as John Calvinism stole his mind... and its always like this as Calvinism hardens the mind against God's Grace.

 

[Robert Pate]

Amen.

You see the "SICK" that is Calvinism.

Its SICK on many levels.

First of all, much of it, is a stone cold lie.

And Calvin does not just lie about the Cross as "limited atonement"....... He lies about GOD, Himself.
He teaches that God causes the evil in this world.

Rape, incest, 1400 Jews Slaughtered recently in Israel, Hate, Bigotry, Lying, Fear, envy, murder.. .all of it.. is "pre-destined" by God to happen.

Welcome to : Calvinism.

Its ugly when you SEE IT...

So, when a person realizes just how terrible is, John Calvinism at the core.... you just have to wonder how anyone can be a PROUD CALVINIST, but MY GOD are they proud of it..

They Create FORUMS just to infect people's minds with Calvinism.

There are a few of them on this forum, who post all the time..

Ive been on many Calvinism Forums, but not for long......
These people, who are truly Calvinistic, worship him, as if he wrote the bible, as if he's some superior holy being.

They are "bewitched".... As Paul teaches.. in Galatians 3:1

The first Calvinist i ever tried to help... was long ago....

If you have seen the Movie.....>"The Boy Who Could Fly".... Its a '80s movie
One of my favorites.
Well, i tried to help the actor, who played the boy, as he's a hyper calvinist.
He could not hear me, as John Calvinism stole his mind... and its always like this as Calvinism hardens the mind against God's Grace.

Calvinism is anti-Christ. If you have been predestinated before the foundation of the world, then who needs Jesus Christ and his Gospel?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Amen.

You see the "SICK" that is Calvinism.

Its SICK on many levels.

First of all, much of it, is a stone cold lie.

And Calvin does not just lie about the Cross as "limited atonement"....... He lies about GOD, Himself.
He teaches that God causes the evil in this world.

Rape, incest, 1400 Jews Slaughtered recently in Israel, Hate, Bigotry, Lying, Fear, envy, murder.. .all of it.. is "pre-destined" by God to happen.

Welcome to : Calvinism.

Its ugly when you SEE IT...

So, when a person realizes just how terrible is, John Calvinism at the core.... you just have to wonder how anyone can be a PROUD CALVINIST, but MY GOD are they proud of it..

They Create FORUMS just to infect people's minds with Calvinism.

There are a few of them on this forum, who post all the time..

Ive been on many Calvinism Forums, but not for long......
These people, who are truly Calvinistic, worship him, as if he wrote the bible, as if he's some superior holy being.

They are "bewitched".... As Paul teaches.. in Galatians 3:1

The first Calvinist i ever tried to help... was long ago....

If you have seen the Movie.....>"The Boy Who Could Fly".... Its a '80s movie
One of my favorites.
Well, i tried to help the actor, who played the boy, as he's a hyper calvinist.
He could not hear me, as John Calvinism stole his mind... and its always like this as Calvinism hardens the mind against God's Grace.

I consider myself a virtual Calvinist, though not "card-carrying." Neither do I think God predestines people for Hell before they were born. Children are born and the product of the parents' DNA, both physical and spiritual. If their DNA is not something God chose from the beginning, then they are the product of human works, and the result will be children born "out of spiritual wedlock."

Nobody can judge in advance who will bear these Lost children. Children are the product of not one, but many generations.

This is not God's fault, but Man's fault. Man chose to do things apart from their Creator, and the results are obviously out of alignment with God's highest will.

Children who do nothing more than wish to live apart from God may be predestined to live outside of God's paradise, because they won't, by spiritual endowment, want to live too close to the One who controls them. This is called "Outer Darkness"--not Hell. It is not just something one is born with, but also something that one acts upon. But their punishment will be no greater than what their deeds deserve. Some stripes will be heavier, and some will be lighter.

We are all repulsed, somewhat, by the thought that some may be bent in the wrong direction from birth. But we are imposing what we feel upon what others may feel. Once we realize that children are born wanting anything but God we have to succumb, I feel, to reality. We just have to let people choose their own way.

At any rate, I don't think our views on this are worth war or insult. We shouldn't die on this hill. The important thing to realize is that some *will not* receive Christ, and we have to let them go. We should not *force* the Gospel onto anyone.

 

[Robert Pate]

I consider myself a virtual Calvinist, though not "card-carrying." Neither do I think God predestines people for Hell before they were born. Children are born and the product of the parents' DNA, both physical and spiritual. If their DNA is not something God chose from the beginning, then they are the product of human works, and the result will be children born "out of spiritual wedlock."

Nobody can judge in advance who will bear these Lost children. Children are the product of not one, but many generations.

This is not God's fault, but Man's fault. Man chose to do things apart from their Creator, and the results are obviously out of alignment with God's highest will.

Children who do nothing more than wish to live apart from God may be predestined to live outside of God's paradise, because they won't, by spiritual endowment, want to live too close to the One who controls them. This is called "Outer Darkness"--not Hell. It is not just something one is born with, but also something that one acts upon. But their punishment will be no greater than what their deeds deserve. Some stripes will be heavier, and some will be lighter.

We are all repulsed, somewhat, by the thought that some may be bent in the wrong direction from birth. But we are imposing what we feel upon what others may feel. Once we realize that children are born wanting anything but God we have to succumb, I feel, to reality. We just have to let people choose their own way.

At any rate, I don't think our views on this are worth war or insult. We shouldn't die on this hill. The important thing to realize is that some *will not* receive Christ, and we have to let them go. We should not *force* the Gospel onto anyone.

I know of some that were born to drug addicts and other bad parents. But they came out of it and became Christians. It is not uncommon for people that are in prison because they murdered someone to become Christians. How do you account for that? I believe that Jeffrey Dalmer accepted Christ as his savior before he was murdered.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I know of some that were born to drug addicts and other bad parents. But they came out of it and became Christians. It is not uncommon for people that are in prison because they murdered someone to become Christians. How do you account for that? I believe that Jeffrey Dalmer accepted Christ as his savior before he was murdered.

Well yes, that's the whole point with grace, because the worst of all can still be saved by the blood of Christ. Ted Bundy, I think, honestly repented, and admitted after years of denial that his blood lust came from his exposure to pornography and due to his strong sex addition.

Christ died for all, for those who repent as well as for those who won't. But it wouldn't make sense to die such a hideous death if it wasn't for the worst of sinners who could then be saved.

I don't think any of us can anticipate who will be Lost unless they reveal their inward predisposition towards God Himself and His lordship. Some who will be lost seem to like His presence and power. Some who will be saved seem most irritated and angered by God's presence and word.

So like I said, we can't really judge anybody regardless, and what our position is on Calvinism has very little effect. We know some will be saved and some will be lost. When God determines they will be lost, either in their lifetime through their choices or before they're even born is pure theory or opinion. Take care.