Who is Jesus to a Non-Trinitarian?

[Wrangler]

The Book of John reveals Jesus deity.

Untrue. The Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book of the whole Bible. In it Jesus said he has a God - who we relate to as father - who is the only true God. This is good enough for me. Why is it not good enough for you?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Matthew 1:23; John1:14
John 1-4 ;
John 10:30
John 17:5
Philippians 2:6
Colossians 1:17
Titus 2:13
1John 5:20
Revelation 1:8

I don't do labels but all the above verses clearly state that Jesus is God, not 3 gods but God, one God!

 

[Kermos]

Untrue. The Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book of the whole Bible. In it Jesus said he has a God - who we relate to as father - who is the only true God. This is good enough for me. Why is it not good enough for you?

John's intensity and amplification by reinforcing God with "the God, and God" in John 1:1
Let's examine the Apostle John's words "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1, in Greek "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος").

POINT 1: significance of "the God, and God" in Greek.

Of the three clauses in John 1:1, the transition between the 2nd and 3rd clause is "τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς" which is word-for-word English as "the God, and God".

In this passage we have the word "God" (θεόν) preceeded by the definite article "the" (τὸν) with the same word "God" (θεόν) followed by the conjunction "and" (καὶ) in turn followed by the word "God" (θεὸς) in anathrous (no definite article), essentially, "τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς" which is word-for-word English as "the God, and God".

The sequence employed by John is significant because John reinforces with intensity and amplification the usage of the word "God" with John's repetition of the word "God".

It is well established that the Jews repeat things to intensify, amplify, reinforce, and emphasize a point being made.

The Apostle wonderfully binds the word "God" (θεόν) and the word "God" (θεὸς) in a harmony of One - the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) which includes the person of the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14).

John clearly means the One True God, the God Most High, YHWH God (Deuteronomy 6:4), for both instances of "God" in John 1:1 because John uses the word "God" in tandem in the verse.

In Truth (John 14:6), John uses both occurrences of "God" in John 1:1 as equivalent terms.

This means that the Apostle John is calling the Word (the Word is Jesus, John 1:1, John 1:14) "God"!

POINT 2: John confesses One True God.

John knew of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3); therefore, John referred to Jesus as YHWH God (θεὸς) with "the Word was God" in John 1:1 because John would not violate the commandment.

John has no gods before YHWH God, that is, Jesus is YHWH God according to the words of the Apostle John.

John knew that God is One (Deuteronomy 6:4), and John made it clear that Jesus is the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) in John 1:1.

This means that the Apostle John confesses Jesus, the Word of God, is everlasting "God"!

POINT 3: another anathrous occurrence of the word "God" (Θεὸν) in John 1.

"No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him" (John 1:18, in Greek "Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο").

Recall, anathrous means a noun without an article, such as, in English, "the" for a definite article or "a" for an indefinite article.

The first occurrence of "God" (Θεὸν) in John 1:18 refers to YHWH God, yet this word "God" (Θεὸν) is anathrous, that is, there is no article, in like manner to there is no article for the word "God" (θεὸς) with "the Word was God" in John 1:1.

A Greek language semantic similarity exists between John 1:1 and the Septuagint's Nahum 1:2 in that each of these verses employ an anathrous Θεὸς (God) noun. Nahum 1:2 in the Septuagint contains an anathrous Θεὸς (God) referring to the One True God, YHWH. Here is the Greek "Θεὸς ζηλωτὴς καὶ ἐκδικῶν κύριος, ἐκδικῶν κύριος µετὰ θυµοῦ ἐκδικῶν κύριος τοὺς ὑπεναντίους αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐξαίρων αὐτὸς τοὺς ἐχθροὺς αὐτοῦ" (Nahum 1:2) for which the Septuagint translated to English is "God is jealous, and Lord is punishing; Lord is punishing with rage; Lord is punishing his adversaries, and lifting away himself of his enemies" (Nahum 1:2) - clearly Θεὸς (God) refers to the One True God, YHWH God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Behold, Θεὸς (God) in Nahum 1:2 is the same word as θεὸς (God) in John 1:1!

Truly, the anathrous word "God" (Θεὸν/θεὸς) in John 1:18 and John 1:1 refers to YHWH God.

This means that the Apostle John proclaims the Word of God integrally is YHWH God!!!

POINT 4: English usage of a noun without a definite article ("the") nor an indefinite article ("a" or "an")

This example illustrates the English language's flexibility to use a noun with an article or without an article.

One full apple pie in a pie tin sliced into 3 equal size pieces remains to be one pie for sale in a baked goods display cabinet.

The three pieces of pie are the one pie.

One piece of the pie is pie.

The word "one" means one, yet the degree of the focal point may vary; in other words, the layer of abstraction can change for a given person, place, or thing.

While this prelude portion of the example of the word "one" establishes a point of reference for the words of Jesus recorded in John 10:30 and John 17:21-23, now I move on to present another example by expanding the previous example to apply to John 1:1 through the next paragraph's dialog between a mom and her son.

The mommy asked "did you eat pie before dinner?", and Josiah answered "I ate one slice of pie at Levi's house."

Notice, the mommy used the noun "pie" without an article, not a definite article (the) nor an indefinite article (a or an).

The mom refers to the one actual pie including the three individual pieces, and the language frame is similar to John's use of the word "God" in anathrous within John 1:1.

The Apostle John refers to the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) including the person of the Word with his words of "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The second occurrence of the word "God" in John 1:1 is undeniably and truthfully the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Analogies can have a point of failure, but the above firmly proves the point in Truth (John 14:6).

CONCLUSION 1 (relates to POINT 1 above):

Mere human understanding cannot understand the harmony of the word "God" (θεόν) and the word "God" (θεὸς) in John 1:1, so the hearts of unregenerate souls tear the Word of God down from Deity into a mere man; therefore, the fleshly souls persist in a state of damnation.

The Holy Spirit reveals the glorious harmony recorded in John 1:1 which declares Jesus is the One True God!

CONCLUSION 2 (relates to POINT 2 above):

John is not going to refer Jesus as God resulting in two gods.

You subtract the fullness of "God" (θεὸς) in John 1:1; therefore, you have more than one God because you say that John 1:1 contains "the Word was a god".

Since your heart contends that Jesus is "a god", then you have more than one god which places you in violation of "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3).

According to your heart's treasure, you claim to have YHWH God + Jesus a god = two gods.

CONCLUSION 3 (relates to POINT 3 above):

The anathrous Greek word for "God" translates to meaning YHWH God elsewhere besides John 1:1 in the New Testament, for example the first occurrence of the word "God" in John 1:18 does not have an article where the word "God" means YHWH God - in like manner to John 1:1.

People that claim Jesus is created and that Jesus is not YHWH God deny the Word of God.

CONCLUSION 4 (addressing your scope exceeding claim that there are many gods with respect to the New Testament)

The Greek word θεὸς (Strong's 2316 - also Θεὸν - Theos, theos [transliteration] - God, Deity, god, deity [English]) can be dependent upon surrounding grammar and context.

The Greek word ἄγγελος (Strong's 32 - aggelos [transliteration] - messenger, angel [English]) is the parlance for angel in the New Testament, and the word θεὸς (God) is never used to refer to an ἄγγελος (angel) in the New Testament.

In the 27 books of the New Testament, the word "god" is used in one of two ways.

The first way is in the good sense which is in reference to YHWH, and I prefer a capital "G" for the good sense, like this, YHWH God.

The second way is in the evil sense which can be in reference to the devil, and I prefer a lower case "g" for the evil sense, like this, the god of this world.

Only two senses for the word "god" exists, and the senses are either good or evil. There is no middle ground.

Of the over 1000 times that the Greek word θεὸς (Strong's 2316 - also Θεὸν - God, god) or it's inflections are used in the New Testament, only the good sense or the evil sense indicated above are represented, as shown in this concordance page blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2316/nasb95/tr/0-1/, and I reviewed all the included verses to make certain - and θεὸς (God) is not used one time to indicate angels.

The good sense for the word θεὸς (God) applies to Jesus; therefore, John declares Jesus is YHWH God in John 1:1 for only God is good (Mark 10:18).

THE GREEK WORD THEOS (GOD) EXCLUSIVELY REFERS TO THE ONE TRUE GOD (DEUTERONOMY 6:4) IN THE GOOD SENSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, SO "IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD" (JOHN 1:1) THE APOSTLE JOHN IN THE BOOK BY JOHN REFERS TO JESUS AS THE ONE TRUE GOD.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Untrue. The Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book of the whole Bible. In it Jesus said he has a God - who we relate to as father - who is the only true God. This is good enough for me. Why is it not good enough for you?

Because what you claim is not good!
The Gospel of John is different than the other three. It is said that it is more theological and spiritual.
John starts off with Jesus' deity. "In the beginning was the Word (JESUS) and the Word was with God and the Word was God". ... "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."
If you can't discern that, you won't get the main theme of John, His deity.
He is the Way, the Truth, the Life, the Bread of Life, the Good Shepherd, the Door, the Resurrection, the Vine, the Alpha and Omega, One with the Father, Messiah, Savior, source of salvation, source of focus, the Great I Am, GOD.

 

[Wrangler]

Because what you claim is not good!
The Gospel of John is different than the other three. It is said that it is more theological and spiritual.
John starts off with Jesus' deity.

Just because John wrote more poetically and emotionally does not mean it is also not the most anti-trinitarian book of the Bible. Jesus and Hohn were both monotheist Jews and there is no evidence they ever stopped being Jewish.

John does NOT start off with Jesus' deity. We know this because he explicitly said in 20:31 that everything he wrote was to prove something other than the idea that Jesus is God; namely, that Jesus is God’s Anointed. So, it is funny to see trinitarians try to twist 1:1 – and indeed, his entire Gospel - to have a purpose other than what John explicitly stated is the purpose of his Gospel!

As I wrote, John clearly started off stating how Jesus fulfilled prophecy.

15 Instead, he will choose one of your own people to be a prophet just like me, and you must do what that prophet says. 16 You were asking for a prophet the day you were gathered at Mount Sinai[a] and said to the Lord, “Please don't let us hear your voice or see this terrible fire again—if we do, we will die!”

17 Then the Lord told me:

Moses, they have said the right thing. 18 So when I want to speak to them, I will choose one of them to be a prophet like you. I will give my message to that prophet, who will tell the people exactly what I have said.
Deuteronomy 18:15-18 (CEV)​

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Just because John wrote more poetically and emotionally does not mean it is also not the most anti-trinitarian book of the Bible. Jesus and Hohn were both monotheist Jews and there is no evidence they ever stopped being Jewish.

John does NOT start off with Jesus' deity. We know this because he explicitly said in 20:31 that everything he wrote was to prove something other than the idea that Jesus is God; namely, that Jesus is God’s Anointed. So, it is funny to see trinitarians try to twist 1:1 – and indeed, his entire Gospel - to have a purpose other than what John explicitly stated is the purpose of his Gospel!

As I wrote, John clearly started off stating how Jesus fulfilled prophecy.

15 Instead, he will choose one of your own people to be a prophet just like me, and you must do what that prophet says. 16 You were asking for a prophet the day you were gathered at Mount Sinai[a] and said to the Lord, “Please don't let us hear your voice or see this terrible fire again—if we do, we will die!”

17 Then the Lord told me:

Moses, they have said the right thing. 18 So when I want to speak to them, I will choose one of them to be a prophet like you. I will give my message to that prophet, who will tell the people exactly what I have said.
Deuteronomy 18:15-18 (CEV)​

Disagree.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

John's intensity and amplification by reinforcing God with "the God, and God" in John 1:1
Let's examine the Apostle John's words "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1, in Greek "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος").

POINT 1: significance of "the God, and God" in Greek.

Of the three clauses in John 1:1, the transition between the 2nd and 3rd clause is "τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς" which is word-for-word English as "the God, and God".

In this passage we have the word "God" (θεόν) preceeded by the definite article "the" (τὸν) with the same word "God" (θεόν) followed by the conjunction "and" (καὶ) in turn followed by the word "God" (θεὸς) in anathrous (no definite article), essentially, "τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς" which is word-for-word English as "the God, and God".

The sequence employed by John is significant because John reinforces with intensity and amplification the usage of the word "God" with John's repetition of the word "God".

It is well established that the Jews repeat things to intensify, amplify, reinforce, and emphasize a point being made.

The Apostle wonderfully binds the word "God" (θεόν) and the word "God" (θεὸς) in a harmony of One - the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) which includes the person of the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14).

John clearly means the One True God, the God Most High, YHWH God (Deuteronomy 6:4), for both instances of "God" in John 1:1 because John uses the word "God" in tandem in the verse.

In Truth (John 14:6), John uses both occurrences of "God" in John 1:1 as equivalent terms.

This means that the Apostle John is calling the Word (the Word is Jesus, John 1:1, John 1:14) "God"!

POINT 2: John confesses One True God.

John knew of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3); therefore, John referred to Jesus as YHWH God (θεὸς) with "the Word was God" in John 1:1 because John would not violate the commandment.

John has no gods before YHWH God, that is, Jesus is YHWH God according to the words of the Apostle John.

John knew that God is One (Deuteronomy 6:4), and John made it clear that Jesus is the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) in John 1:1.

This means that the Apostle John confesses Jesus, the Word of God, is everlasting "God"!

POINT 3: another anathrous occurrence of the word "God" (Θεὸν) in John 1.

"No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him" (John 1:18, in Greek "Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο").

Recall, anathrous means a noun without an article, such as, in English, "the" for a definite article or "a" for an indefinite article.

The first occurrence of "God" (Θεὸν) in John 1:18 refers to YHWH God, yet this word "God" (Θεὸν) is anathrous, that is, there is no article, in like manner to there is no article for the word "God" (θεὸς) with "the Word was God" in John 1:1.

A Greek language semantic similarity exists between John 1:1 and the Septuagint's Nahum 1:2 in that each of these verses employ an anathrous Θεὸς (God) noun. Nahum 1:2 in the Septuagint contains an anathrous Θεὸς (God) referring to the One True God, YHWH. Here is the Greek "Θεὸς ζηλωτὴς καὶ ἐκδικῶν κύριος, ἐκδικῶν κύριος µετὰ θυµοῦ ἐκδικῶν κύριος τοὺς ὑπεναντίους αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐξαίρων αὐτὸς τοὺς ἐχθροὺς αὐτοῦ" (Nahum 1:2) for which the Septuagint translated to English is "God is jealous, and Lord is punishing; Lord is punishing with rage; Lord is punishing his adversaries, and lifting away himself of his enemies" (Nahum 1:2) - clearly Θεὸς (God) refers to the One True God, YHWH God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Behold, Θεὸς (God) in Nahum 1:2 is the same word as θεὸς (God) in John 1:1!

Truly, the anathrous word "God" (Θεὸν/θεὸς) in John 1:18 and John 1:1 refers to YHWH God.

This means that the Apostle John proclaims the Word of God integrally is YHWH God!!!

POINT 4: English usage of a noun without a definite article ("the") nor an indefinite article ("a" or "an")

This example illustrates the English language's flexibility to use a noun with an article or without an article.

One full apple pie in a pie tin sliced into 3 equal size pieces remains to be one pie for sale in a baked goods display cabinet.

The three pieces of pie are the one pie.

One piece of the pie is pie.

The word "one" means one, yet the degree of the focal point may vary; in other words, the layer of abstraction can change for a given person, place, or thing.

While this prelude portion of the example of the word "one" establishes a point of reference for the words of Jesus recorded in John 10:30 and John 17:21-23, now I move on to present another example by expanding the previous example to apply to John 1:1 through the next paragraph's dialog between a mom and her son.

The mommy asked "did you eat pie before dinner?", and Josiah answered "I ate one slice of pie at Levi's house."

Notice, the mommy used the noun "pie" without an article, not a definite article (the) nor an indefinite article (a or an).

The mom refers to the one actual pie including the three individual pieces, and the language frame is similar to John's use of the word "God" in anathrous within John 1:1.

The Apostle John refers to the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) including the person of the Word with his words of "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The second occurrence of the word "God" in John 1:1 is undeniably and truthfully the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Analogies can have a point of failure, but the above firmly proves the point in Truth (John 14:6).

CONCLUSION 1 (relates to POINT 1 above):

Mere human understanding cannot understand the harmony of the word "God" (θεόν) and the word "God" (θεὸς) in John 1:1, so the hearts of unregenerate souls tear the Word of God down from Deity into a mere man; therefore, the fleshly souls persist in a state of damnation.

The Holy Spirit reveals the glorious harmony recorded in John 1:1 which declares Jesus is the One True God!

CONCLUSION 2 (relates to POINT 2 above):

John is not going to refer Jesus as God resulting in two gods.

You subtract the fullness of "God" (θεὸς) in John 1:1; therefore, you have more than one God because you say that John 1:1 contains "the Word was a god".

Since your heart contends that Jesus is "a god", then you have more than one god which places you in violation of "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3).

According to your heart's treasure, you claim to have YHWH God + Jesus a god = two gods.

CONCLUSION 3 (relates to POINT 3 above):

The anathrous Greek word for "God" translates to meaning YHWH God elsewhere besides John 1:1 in the New Testament, for example the first occurrence of the word "God" in John 1:18 does not have an article where the word "God" means YHWH God - in like manner to John 1:1.

People that claim Jesus is created and that Jesus is not YHWH God deny the Word of God.

CONCLUSION 4 (addressing your scope exceeding claim that there are many gods with respect to the New Testament)

The Greek word θεὸς (Strong's 2316 - also Θεὸν - Theos, theos [transliteration] - God, Deity, god, deity [English]) can be dependent upon surrounding grammar and context.

The Greek word ἄγγελος (Strong's 32 - aggelos [transliteration] - messenger, angel [English]) is the parlance for angel in the New Testament, and the word θεὸς (God) is never used to refer to an ἄγγελος (angel) in the New Testament.

In the 27 books of the New Testament, the word "god" is used in one of two ways.

The first way is in the good sense which is in reference to YHWH, and I prefer a capital "G" for the good sense, like this, YHWH God.

The second way is in the evil sense which can be in reference to the devil, and I prefer a lower case "g" for the evil sense, like this, the god of this world.

Only two senses for the word "god" exists, and the senses are either good or evil. There is no middle ground.

Of the over 1000 times that the Greek word θεὸς (Strong's 2316 - also Θεὸν - God, god) or it's inflections are used in the New Testament, only the good sense or the evil sense indicated above are represented, as shown in this concordance page blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2316/nasb95/tr/0-1/, and I reviewed all the included verses to make certain - and θεὸς (God) is not used one time to indicate angels.

The good sense for the word θεὸς (God) applies to Jesus; therefore, John declares Jesus is YHWH God in John 1:1 for only God is good (Mark 10:18).

THE GREEK WORD THEOS (GOD) EXCLUSIVELY REFERS TO THE ONE TRUE GOD (DEUTERONOMY 6:4) IN THE GOOD SENSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, SO "IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD" (JOHN 1:1) THE APOSTLE JOHN IN THE BOOK BY JOHN REFERS TO JESUS AS THE ONE TRUE GOD.

Very scholarly! Is this your study or someone else's?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Rich R.

I am not a person who believe in the trinity.

Who is Jesus to me?

I believe that Jesus had moved from the right hand of the Father now and the one who sits on the throne, though not over God (Father) himself, becoming the Lord God Almighty.

Revelation 4
New International Version

The Throne in Heaven
4 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. 3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne.4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. 5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. 6 Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’

who was, and is, and is to come.”

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

 

[APAK]

POINT 1: significance of "the God, and God" in Greek.

The Apostle wonderfully binds the word "God" (θεόν) and the word "God" (θεὸς) in a harmony of One - the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) which includes the person of the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14).

This means that the Apostle John is calling the Word (the Word is Jesus, John 1:1, John 1:14) "God"!

POINT 2: John confesses One True God.

John knew of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3); therefore, John referred to Jesus as YHWH God (θεὸς) with "the Word was God" in John 1:1 because John would not violate the commandment.

John has no gods before YHWH God, that is, Jesus is YHWH God according to the words of the Apostle John.

POINT 3: another anathrous occurrence of the word "God" (Θεὸν) in John 1.

POINT 4: English usage of a noun without a definite article ("the") nor an indefinite article ("a" or "an")

This example illustrates the English language's flexibility to use a noun with an article or without an article.

One full apple pie in a pie tin sliced into 3 equal size pieces remains to be one pie for sale in a baked goods display cabinet.

The three pieces of pie are the one pie.

One piece of the pie is pie.

The word "one" means one, yet the degree of the focal point may vary; in other words, the layer of abstraction can change for a given person, place, or thing.

While this prelude portion of the example of the word "one" establishes a point of reference for the words of Jesus recorded in John 10:30 and John 17:21-23, now I move on to present another example by expanding the previous example to apply to John 1:1 through the next paragraph's dialog between a mom and her son.

The mommy asked "did you eat pie before dinner?", and Josiah answered "I ate one slice of pie at Levi's house."

Notice, the mommy used the noun "pie" without an article, not a definite article (the) nor an indefinite article (a or an).

The mom refers to the one actual pie including the three individual pieces, and the language frame is similar to John's use of the word "God" in anathrous within John 1:1.

The Apostle John refers to the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) including the person of the Word with his words of "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The second occurrence of the word "God" in John 1:1 is undeniably and truthfully the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Analogies can have a point of failure, but the above firmly proves the point in Truth (John 14:6).

CONCLUSION 1 (relates to POINT 1 above):

Mere human understanding cannot understand the harmony of the word "God" (θεόν) and the word "God" (θεὸς) in John 1:1, so the hearts of unregenerate souls tear the Word of God down from Deity into a mere man; therefore, the fleshly souls persist in a state of damnation.

The Holy Spirit reveals the glorious harmony recorded in John 1:1 which declares Jesus is the One True God!

CONCLUSION 2 (relates to POINT 2 above):

John is not going to refer Jesus as God resulting in two gods.

You subtract the fullness of "God" (θεὸς) in John 1:1; therefore, you have more than one God because you say that John 1:1 contains "the Word was a god".

Since your heart contends that Jesus is "a god", then you have more than one god which places you in violation of "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3).

According to your heart's treasure, you claim to have YHWH God + Jesus a god = two gods.

CONCLUSION 3 (relates to POINT 3 above):

People that claim Jesus is created and that Jesus is not YHWH God deny the Word of God.

CONCLUSION 4 (addressing your scope exceeding claim that there are many gods with respect to the New Testament)

The good sense for the word θεὸς (God) applies to Jesus; therefore, John declares Jesus is YHWH God in John 1:1 for only God is good (Mark 10:18).

Another most ridiculous confused commentary of John 1:1 etc.

As in all these types of 'seemingly clever' artificially framed and constructed commentaries with a huge bias and agenda, the Achilles heel is ALWAYS the same one. Suddenly, appearing from nowhere without any introduction, Jesus is inserted into the argument and discussion and assumed and equated with the word as being the actual attribute of God himself, HIS own word (plan, purpose and inner expressions that caused miraculous events for one) instead of just being the word OF God, as his mouthpiece and spokesperson to echo and do the word of his Father of his word and spirit. It is his Father's commands and power that is the source of all things, NOT his Son!

It is impossible for the Greek transliterated word 'LOGOS' into the English 'word' (and it does not have to mean just this symbol 'word' either) to mean a person let alone Yahshua the Christ. IT is always a thing, an IT. Prove I am wrong. It can never happen!!

All the 300 plus x the word 'logos' is used in the NT they all mean an IT. They all cannot be wrong. This is the ONLY place in the entire NT where the Greek word logos was officially altered from its common grammatical meaning, from a thing to a person, forged for the sole purpose to mean a person for the sake, service and maintenance of the Trinity or Binitary doctrines.

And then to resort to another analogy of 'three parts' for the Trinity is a joke (point 4 in the post). If one have to try and still force the Trinity into scripture with yet another novel analogy like three part of pie you know the author is getting desperate. And where is the '3rd person' or the 3rd part of the pie in all this subject. AWOL as usual.

Without this historical kluged handiwork the fake forged beachhead of Trinitarianism and Binitarianism into the holy scriptures would be gone. 'They' need it to KEEP THE FRAUD and ILLUSION ALIVE, that the Son is God and the same one as his Father.

How astonishing folks still believe in this entire charade of smoke and mirrors. I would like to say Epi on this site is speaking on the 'outer' fallen man lately. This is surely the work of the outer corrupted man. And it needs to cease and be crucified instantly. And it won't of course. Fortunately, this evil spirit of this world along with it outer temporal shell will be soon gone, forever....Amen

 

[Rich R]

Hello @Rich R.

I am not a person who believe in the trinity.

Who is Jesus to me?

I believe that Jesus had moved from the right hand of the Father now and the one who sits on the throne, though not over God (Father) himself, becoming the Lord God Almighty.

Good points. It reminds me of:

1 Cor 15:28,

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
​

In the very end Yahweh will be supreme and He'll know how to run a better earth than this one!

 

[MatthewG]

Good points. It reminds me of:

1 Cor 15:28,

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
​

In the very end Yahweh will be supreme and He'll know how to run a better earth than this one!

That must be what a lot of people are having hope for a “New earth”… I believe the new heavens and earth is now, it’s a spiritual economy in the heavenly realm where God resides in His Kingdom which indwells believers today.

Thank you for the scripture as I believe that has happened, the Throne room is the biggest picture to what Christ had became upon his return and having put all things beneath Him, save God himself.

 

[Rich R]

That must be what a lot of people are having hope for a “New earth”… I believe the new heavens and earth is now, it’s a spiritual economy in the heavenly realm where God resides in His Kingdom which indwells believers today.

Thank you for the scripture as I believe that has happened, the Throne room is the biggest picture to what Christ had became upon his return and having put all things beneath Him, save God himself.

I see what you are saying and I know that is what others also say, but wouldn't you think that if God was really in charge now we would see a much better place? Look at Revelation chapters 20 through 22. It sure paints a different picture of the new earth than what we see now in this present earth. Revelation 21:1 says the "new earth" comes after the tribulation and Armageddon, two events that I don't see as having already occurred. It would be hard to miss 1/3 of the world's population as having died by fire, smoke, and brimstone (Rev 9:18).

God promised Abram, Issac, Jacob, and all Israel a real physical land, one that they could all see with their eyes. He wasn't talking about a spiritual kingdom, but a real earthly kingdom. We learn later that Jesus will be the leader of the kingdom and that he will rule with a rod of iron, i.e., evil doers will get real punishment and so kept in line. I don't see anything like that in this present world. I think spiritualizing these simple statements leads to much confusion and detracts our attention from the real hope of Jesus' return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Even the current heaven is not what God intended. It is full of evil spirits who are seeking to devour whoever they may.

Eph 6:12,

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].​

1 Pet 5:8,

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
​

The new heaven of Revelation will be quite different.

I'm curious. I've heard about a "spiritual economy" but I'm not sure what it is. Can you tell me. It would really help if you could show me the appropriate Bible verses. Thanks!

 

[MatthewG]

We are in a much better place @Rich R

You have God dwelling with-in you by the Holy Spirit and the spirit of Christ, you have direct connection with God and one day after leaving this world you are going to be the heavenly realm in the Heavenly Jerusalem were God dwells given a spiritual body by him that produced now while we traverse the lands until the day of our death.

Would like to share a quote with you I wrote to another person.

People have been killing people since the dawn of time. God even wiped them out one time and they still choose darkness.


I personally do not believe we have to worry about nuclear stuff it can do a lot of damage and who is to say someone out there might not go ahead and try to destroy some of America.


When it comes to the world, Jesus Christ was not part of it, though he was in his flesh, but he was waiting for and hoping for more out of his own life by willingly giving it over to be sacrificed.


He was willingly to, that is the key here, Jesus Christ was willingly to die for the entire world... when he did not have to, he could have chose to do his own thing and sometimes I believe we tend to forget that.


Therefore this world, sure we are part of it, it hurts when we feel pain, it doesn't feel good to be sick, we cry when someone we love passes away.


The thing about these thing even though they can hurt for a short while, or perhaps even the rest of ones life, there is true hope found in Christ, that there is something more after this life, and one day we will transfer over to the realm were God dwells, and everyone will be given a resurrected body. Those who wanted something to do with God they will go be with Him, those who did not want to be with God won't be.


It seems people focus to much on this world, yes there is pain, and hurt, and loss, however in the future one day none of that will be in the Kingdom of Heaven, Heavenly Jerusalem where God dwells.


Jesus never really focused on this world, as much as his focus was to come and do the Fathers will willingly and that is pretty much what is asked of us as Christian, to pick our cross, deny ourselves and follow after him.

Philippians 3
Citizenship in Heaven

17Join one another in following my example, brothers, and carefully observe those who walk according to the pattern we set for you.18For as I have often told you before, and now say again even with tears: Many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. Their minds are set on earthly things.20But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.

Galatians 6:10 New International Version
Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

The New Jerusalem - Revelation 21
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth had disappeared, and there was no sea anymore. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. It was prepared like a bride dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Now God’s presence is with people, and he will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them and will be their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, sadness, crying, or pain, because all the old ways are gone.”

5 The One who was sitting on the throne said, “Look! I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this, because these words are true and can be trusted.”

6 The One on the throne said to me, “It is finished. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give free water from the spring of the water of life to anyone who is thirsty. 7 Those who win the victory will receive this, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. 8 But cowards, those who refuse to believe, who do evil things, who kill, who sin sexually, who do evil magic, who worship idols, and who tell lies—all these will have a place in the lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last troubles came to me, saying, “Come with me, and I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And the angel carried me away by the Spirit to a very large and high mountain. He showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It was shining with the glory of God and was bright like a very expensive jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 The city had a great high wall with twelve gates with twelve angels at the gates, and on each gate was written the name of one of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west. 14 The walls of the city were built on twelve foundation stones, and on the stones were written the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod made of gold to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city was built in a square, and its length was equal to its width. The angel measured the city with the rod. The city was 1,500 miles long, 1,500 miles wide, and 1,500 miles high. 17 The angel also measured the wall. It was 216 feet high, by human measurements, which the angel was using. 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city was made of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundation stones of the city walls were decorated with every kind of jewel. The first foundation was jasper, the second was sapphire, the third was chalcedony, the fourth was emerald, 20 the fifth was onyx, the sixth was carnelian, the seventh was chrysolite, the eighth was beryl, the ninth was topaz, the tenth was chrysoprase, the eleventh was jacinth, and the twelfth was amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate having been made from a single pearl. And the street of the city was made of pure gold as clear as glass.

22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the city’s temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God is its light, and the Lamb is the city’s lamp. 24 By its light the people of the world will walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 The city’s gates will never be shut on any day, because there is no night there. 26 The glory and the honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing unclean and no one who does shameful things or tells lies will ever go into it. Only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life will enter the city.

 

[Rich R]

We are in a much better place @Rich R

You have God dwelling with-in you by the Holy Spirit and the spirit of Christ, you have direct connection with God and one day after leaving this world you are going to be the heavenly realm in the Heavenly Jerusalem were God dwells given a spiritual body by him that produced now while we traverse the lands until the day of our death.

It is clear that we have God dwelling within by way of Christ. And yes, we absolutely have a direct connection with God. In fact, God wants us to approach Him with boldness and confidence.

Eph 3:11-12,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.​

It'd be great to have access with boldness and confidence to the President of the US, but that pales in comparison to having direct access to God.

Will we spend eternity in heaven or on earth?

1 Thess 4:16-17,

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
​

Notice that we will meet Jesus in the clouds, in the air. It says nothing about heaven. Furthermore, wherever Jesus will be, we will be there with him. So if we know where Jesus will be, we will know where we will be.

Ps 2:6-8,

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession.​

• Jesus will be the king, ruling from Mount Zion. God will give him the earth, not heaven, to possess.

Ps 72:8,

He (Jesus) shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.​

• Jesus will have dominion on the earth, not heaven
• There will be seas, and rivers. No seas or rivers in heaven though.

Rev 5:10,

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.​

• God will always reign in heaven, but the faithful of Israel will reign with Jesus on the earth. Remember, we will be with Jesus, ergo, we will also be on the earth

Rev 21:1-2,

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.​

• The new Jerusalem comes down from heaven. It is not in heaven.
• Jesus will rule from the new Jerusalem, so he will be on the earth and we will still be with him

Isa 11:6-8,

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.​

• This is not a scene from heaven. it is very much earthly.

There are many many verses in the OT that speak of God giving His people a kingdom on earth, one that can be seen with the eyes. That is not at all how heaven is. It can not be seen with eyes. I think a careful reading of Revelation chapters 19-22 shows that Jesus will reign on earth, specifically in a new Jerusalem.

I understand that now the scriptures say our citizenship is in heaven, that we are sitting on the right hand of God, etc., but that is in a spiritual sense. It is obviously not in a real physical sense, since we are still very much earthlings. In any case, that idea has to be weighed against the clear verses in the scriptures that say we will be on a new earth, not heaven.

Basically, God will recreate the Garden of Eden (complete with the Tree of Life which Adam and Eve lost) and that's where I believe we will spend eternity. But I also am fully aware that I'm not the final authority in spiritual matters. That would be he scriptures. I just happen to believe they say we will be on a new, much improved, indeed, a perfect earth with Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

It is clear that we have God dwelling within by way of Christ. And yes, we absolutely have a direct connection with God. In fact, God wants us to approach Him with boldness and confidence.

Eph 3:11-12,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.​

It'd be great to have access with boldness and confidence to the President of the US, but that pales in comparison to having direct access to God.

Will we spend eternity in heaven or on earth?

1 Thess 4:16-17,

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
​

Notice that we will meet Jesus in the clouds, in the air. It says nothing about heaven. Furthermore, wherever Jesus will be, we will be there with him. So if we know where Jesus will be, we will know where we will be.

Ps 2:6-8,

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession.​

• Jesus will be the king, ruling from Mount Zion. God will give him the earth, not heaven, to possess.

Ps 72:8,

He (Jesus) shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.​

• Jesus will have dominion on the earth, not heaven
• There will be seas, and rivers. No seas or rivers in heaven though.

Rev 5:10,

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.​

• God will always reign in heaven, but the faithful of Israel will reign with Jesus on the earth. Remember, we will be with Jesus, ergo, we will also be on the earth

Rev 21:1-2,

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.​

• The new Jerusalem comes down from heaven. It is not in heaven.
• Jesus will rule from the new Jerusalem, so he will be on the earth and we will still be with him

Isa 11:6-8,

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.​

• This is not a scene from heaven. it is very much earthly.

There are many many verses in the OT that speak of God giving His people a kingdom on earth, one that can be seen with the eyes. That is not at all how heaven is. It can not be seen with eyes. I think a careful reading of Revelation chapters 19-22 shows that Jesus will reign on earth, specifically in a new Jerusalem.

I understand that now the scriptures say our citizenship is in heaven, that we are sitting on the right hand of God, etc., but that is in a spiritual sense. It is obviously not in a real physical sense, since we are still very much earthlings. In any case, that idea has to be weighed against the clear verses in the scriptures that say we will be on a new earth, not heaven.

Basically, God will recreate the Garden of Eden (complete with the Tree of Life which Adam and Eve lost) and that's where I believe we will spend eternity. But I also am fully aware that I'm not the final authority in spiritual matters. That would be he scriptures. I just happen to believe they say we will be on a new, much improved, indeed, a perfect earth with Christ.

Okay. We differ on our understanding, and Thank you for sharing your view of how you see things.

 

[Kermos]

Very scholarly! Is this your study or someone else's?

It is a piece that the Spirit of God has been having me work. To God be all glory and honor and praise forever and ever.

God bless you, Ronald David Bruno.

 

[Kermos]

Another most ridiculous confused commentary of John 1:1 etc.


As in all these types of 'seemingly clever' artificially framed and constructed commentaries with a huge bias and agenda, the Achilles heel is ALWAYS the same one. Suddenly, appearing from nowhere without any introduction, Jesus is inserted into the argument and discussion and assumed and equated with the word as being the actual attribute of God himself, HIS own word (plan, purpose and inner expressions that caused miraculous events for one) instead of just being the word OF God, as his mouthpiece and spokesperson to echo and do the word of his Father of his word and spirit. It is his Father's commands and power that is the source of all things, NOT his Son!


It is impossible for the Greek transliterated word 'LOGOS' into the English 'word' (and it does not have to mean just this symbol 'word' either) to mean a person let alone Yahshua the Christ. IT is always a thing, an IT. Prove I am wrong. It can never happen!!


All the 300 plus x the word 'logos' is used in the NT they all mean an IT. They all cannot be wrong. This is the ONLY place in the entire NT where the Greek word logos was officially altered from its common grammatical meaning, from a thing to a person, forged for the sole purpose to mean a person for the sake, service and maintenance of the Trinity or Binitary doctrines.


And then to resort to another analogy of 'three parts' for the Trinity is a joke (point 4 in the post). If one have to try and still force the Trinity into scripture with yet another novel analogy like three part of pie you know the author is getting desperate. And where is the '3rd person' or the 3rd part of the pie in all this subject. AWOL as usual.


Without this historical kluged handiwork the fake forged beachhead of Trinitarianism and Binitarianism into the holy scriptures would be gone. 'They' need it to KEEP THE FRAUD and ILLUSION ALIVE, that the Son is God and the same one as his Father.


How astonishing folks still believe in this entire charade of smoke and mirrors. I would like to say Epi on this site is speaking on the 'outer' fallen man lately. This is surely the work of the outer corrupted man. And it needs to cease and be crucified instantly. And it won't of course. Fortunately, this evil spirit of this world along with it outer temporal shell will be soon gone, forever....Amen

You wrote "IT is always a thing, an IT. Prove I am wrong. It can never happen!!" about the Greek word Λόγος (Strong's Greek: 3056. λόγος (logos) - in English: word - biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm).

The Apostle John wrote "the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).

Here we find that YOU ARE WRONG.

The Word is Jesus in John chapter 1.

You call Jesus the Word an "IT".

Jesus is the Word as illuminated in John 1:1-5, John 1:14, and Luke 1:1-2 - The word "Word" defined in scripture.

"Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the Word" (Luke 1:1-2).

Luke wrote "eyewitnesses" "of the Word" (Luke 1:2), and the "eyewitnesses" includes people like the Apostle Thomas who humbly acknowledged "My Lord and my God" to to TO Jesus (John 20:28).

Not just "earwitnesses" of the Word, but they were also "eyewitnesses" "of the Word" (Luke 1:2). Luke does specifically declare that they SAW the Word - they saw Jesus for Jesus is the Word of God!

They were "eyewitnesses" of Lord Jesus Christ the Word.

In Luke 1:1-2, the word "Word" is translated from the Greek word "Logos".

Luke further elaborates that the "eyewitnesses" "of the Word" (Luke 1:2) are also "servants of the Word" (Luke 1:2), so the "eyewitnesses" see and hear and serve the Word of God.

The "eyewitnesses" includes people like the Apostle John who illuminates the Word is Jesus with "the Word became flesh" (John 1:14).

In John 1:14, the word "Word" is translated from the Greek word "Logos".

Both the Apostle John and Luke illuminate that Jesus is the Word.

Thus John refers to Jesus in John 1:1-5 as the "Word" and "He" and "Him" and "Life" and "Light":

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the Life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
​

In John 1:1-5, the word "Word" is translated from the Greek word "Logos".

The following describes how "Word", "He", "Him", "Life", and "Light" all refer to Jesus.

The first word of John 1:2 is "He", and that "He" is the "Word" in John 1:1, and that "He" in John 1:2 is the "Him" in John 1:3 and John 1:4; moreover, the "Him" in John 1:3 is the "Life" in John 1:4, and the "Him" in John 1:3 is the "Light" in John 1:4 and John 1:5.

Truly, we have a Spiritually accurate linguistic linkage from "Light" in John 1:5 back to "Word" in John 1:1.

Jesus says "While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world" (John 9:6), so we have Jesus being the Light in John 1:4-5 and John 9:6.

Jesus says "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" (John 14:6), so we have Jesus being the Life in in John 1:4 and John 14:6.

John witnesses that Jesus is the Word with "the Word became flesh" (John 1:14), so we have John further identifying Jesus as the Word (Logos).

Lord Jesus Christ is the Word of God (John 1:1-5, John 1:14), a.k.a. the Logos of Theos, and the Word of God is God.

Jesus, truly God, is the God of Jesus, truly Man; moreover, Jesus, truly God, is God with the Father.

Jesus reveals Himself as truly God and truly Man at His discretion because Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

YOU DECEIVE WHEN YOU WROTE "It can never happen" THAT THE WORD REFERS TO JESUS.

YOU WICKEDLY DEMEAN JESUS BY CALLING HIM A MERE "IT".

 

[Wrangler]

the Achilles heel is ALWAYS the same one. Suddenly, appearing from nowhere without any introduction, Jesus is inserted into the argument and discussion and assumed and equated with the word as being the actual attribute of God himself, HIS own word

Reminds me of when I asked a trinitarian who said 'this is my son, in whom I am well pleased.' He obstinately said it is the voice of the Father. LOL

When I pointed out that Jesus is not called the son of the father, the conversation ended.

The verse in question proves beyond any rational doubt that our all powerful Creator has the ability to speak words all by himself. LOL He does not need another Being to speak for him. Instead, he acquiesced to our request in Deut 18:15-18.

 

[Wrangler]

Disagree.

I know. You have been indoctrinated to call out to a god not found in Scripture.

From today’s devotional reading:

so that together you may with one voice glorify God and the father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 15:5

God is the father of Jesus. The verse is not a trinitarian verse. It does not say to glorify the trinity god. It does not say to honor 2 Beings, God and father but to glorify one Being God (who is the father of Jesus).

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

You

I know. You have been indoctrinated to call out to a god not found in Scripture.

From today’s devotional reading:

so that together you may with one voice glorify God and the father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 15:5

God is the father of Jesus. The verse is not a trinitarian verse. It does not say to glorify the trinity god. It does not say to honor 2 Beings, God and father but to glorify one Being God (who is the father of Jesus).

You do not discern scripture. It is evident that you lack the presence if the Holy Spirit who lives in us and gives discernment, because you don't accept Him either as a person. I don't what would be more insulting to imply that someone is of the Devil or if someone is not a person at all. And it was quite clear that Jesus claimed the Father would send "another helper". He also said He would send a Helper/Comforter. Then when,scripture clearly says that He will live in us and also equates Him with God, there you have it. Non-trinnies just don't grasp these concepts and lack depth of understanding God.