Who Is Jesus?

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Neon

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Hello there! Well its the main reason why I logged on todday, Its something thats been hammering at the back of my mind, that I dont really understand, that I dont really associate him with my troubles or joys , that I dont view him the same way as I view God or the holy spirit. There's something not right with that, since I call myself a Christian and I feel I am a Christian.

There are so many names, the Lord, the Messiah, the Son. He is all those and more? He is God's only begotten son? What does begotten really mean in that context? After all arent I his child?

I view God, as God and most definitely to myself ,a Father. Maybe thats where im getting baffled, because im human , and so fixated with the whole Father concept. So who is? Jesus is God?Saying that confuses me. Jesus is my Saviour? Yes i believe he died on the cross for us. I accept that, but im sure that not all there is to it,is it? I pray to God and only to God so very openly, i've never done anything else. What am I supposed to do with my belief in Jesus?Im not processing something, please help to simply this.

Who is Jesus to you? How do you apply this to your spirituality?
 

rockytopva

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Hello Neon... Will try to be brief...

"And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none." - Ezekiel 22:30

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. " -Luke 12:4-5

The Father is one tough customer. Read the book of Exodus. It is almost as though the creator had no understandings of his creation. There were times that Moses was the only man between God and the elimination of Israel. Notice that the Lord Jesus re-emphasized the need to fear the Father.

E = mc[sup]2[/sup] ... or .... m = E / c[sup]2[/sup]

There is a spiritual energy (warmth and motivation) and light (faith, hope, and charity).

And the opposite is also true... There is a spiritual nothing (coldness and laziness) and darkness (fear, depression, hate).

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5

God the Father is pure light and energy. And in reading the bible through he has a tough time out of we humans when we stoop down to dark things., thus the need for Jesus...

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." -John 14:6

Jesus Christ is the hedge between us and God. We can call on God the Father in the name of Jesus and God will give our prayer requests audience. Which is why satan works so hard trying to eliminate using the name of Jesus... Our only was to the Heavenly Father.

I believe that God the Father revealed his son Jesus to Abraham many years ago. When Abraham was looking afar off in the land of Moriah (Genesis 22:4) I believe that God Abraham saw the sacrifice that God was going to have to make in sending his son Jesus on the cross. In inventorying my own life I see a life riddled with faults and mistakes. It is a pleasure for me to go to the Father in prayer and in the name of Jesus.
 

horsecamp

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the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are THE ONE and only TRUE GOD .

ALL WERE BUSY AT CREATION Genesis 1:26 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”


Jesus the second person of the trinity is fully human and fully GOD


Matthew 1:23 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)
23 “The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[a]—which means, “God with us.”



Acts 20:28

Acts 20:28
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, " which he bought with his own blood. "


Colossians 1:15-16

The Supremacy of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.




John 20:28 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”




Colossians 2:9 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,


John 1:1
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

John 1:18 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)
18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[a] who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.



The Apostles Creed:


As the head of the family should teach it in a simple way to his household.

The First Article: Creation
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.


What does this mean? I believe that God has made me and all creatures; that He has given me my body and soul, eyes, ears, and all my members, my reason and all my senses, and still takes care of them. He also gives me clothing and shoes, food and drink, house and home, wife and children, land, animals, and all I have. He richly and daily provides me with all that I need to support this body and life. He defends me against all danger and guards and protects me from all evil. All this He does only out of fatherly, divine goodness and mercy, without any merit or worthiness in me. For all this it is my duty to thank and praise, serve and obey Him. This is most certainly true.


The Second Article: Redemption
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Plate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell. The third day He rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty. From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.


What does this mean? I believe that Jesus Christ, true God, begotten of the Father from eternity, and also true man, born of the Virgin Mary, is my Lord. Who has redeemed me, a lost and condemned person, purchased and won me from all sins, from death, and from the power of the devil; not with gold or silver, but with His holy, precious blood and with His innocent suffering and death, that I may be His own and live under Him in His kingdom and serve Him in everlasting righteousness, innocence, and blessedness, just as He is risen from the dead, lives and reigns to all eternity. This is most certainly true.


The Third Article: Sanctification
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Christian church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.


What does this mean? I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith. In the same way He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian church He daily and richly forgives all my sins and the sins of all believers. On the Last Day He will raise me and all the dead, and give eternal life to me and all believers in Christ. This is most certainly true.
 

Guestman

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Hello there! Well its the main reason why I logged on todday, Its something thats been hammering at the back of my mind, that I dont really understand, that I dont really associate him with my troubles or joys , that I dont view him the same way as I view God or the holy spirit. There's something not right with that, since I call myself a Christian and I feel I am a Christian.

There are so many names, the Lord, the Messiah, the Son. He is all those and more? He is God's only begotten son? What does begotten really mean in that context? After all arent I his child?

I view God, as God and most definitely to myself ,a Father. Maybe thats where im getting baffled, because im human , and so fixated with the whole Father concept. So who is? Jesus is God?Saying that confuses me. Jesus is my Saviour? Yes i believe he died on the cross for us. I accept that, but im sure that not all there is to it,is it? I pray to God and only to God so very openly, i've never done anything else. What am I supposed to do with my belief in Jesus?Im not processing something, please help to simply this.

Who is Jesus to you? How do you apply this to your spirituality?

The apostle John wrote in about 98 C.E., that "these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God."(John 20:31) The apostle Peter, in answering Jesus question as to whom he thought he was, said: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matt 16:16) Saul, after having received back his sight from being blinded by Jesus and who later became the apostle Paul, "immediately in the synagogues he began to preach Jesus, that this One is the Son of God."(Acts 9:20) Jesus is hence, the "Son of God", not "God the Son" nor God.

Jesus is the Messiah (Hebrew) or Christ (Greek), meaning "anointed one." At Psalms 2:2, it says that "the kings of earth take their stand and high officials themselves have massed together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.("anointed one", Hebrew ma·shi´ach) Thus, Jehovah God's "anointed one" here at Psalms 2:2 is the one that was prophesied to become the Messiah or Christ, Jesus. Jesus was anointed by God to serve in the official position as Christ.

However, when Jesus was born to Mary, he was not at that time "the Christ." This did not occur until the fall of the year 29 C.E., after his baptism by John the Baptist in the Jordan River. At that time, "after being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him."(Matt 3:16) Then a voice from the heavens said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”(Matt 3:17) Jesus is thus Jehovah God's Son, and at this time became the "anointed One" or Christ immediately following his baptism.

Jesus, though, is more than just a "Son." He is God's "only-begotten Son." Jesus, in speaking with Nicodemus, told him that "God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."(John 3:16) The expression "only-begotten Son" applies only to Jesus. What does this mean ?

The Greek word rendered as "only-begotten" is monogenes, and literally means "single of it's kind, only", or "the only member of a kin or kind",(Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144) and is used to describe the relation of both sons and daughters to their parents. For example, at Judges 11:34, concerning Jephthah's daughter, it said that "she was absolutely the only child (Hebrew weraq´ hi’ yechi·dhah´; Greek Septuagint monogenes). Besides her he had neither son nor daughter."

And in the online interlinear, Scripture4all, the meaning of monogenes is "only-generated", as at John 3:16 and 18 concerning Jesus, Luke 7:12 with regard to the son of "widow of Nain", and Luke 8:42, concerning the daughter of Jairus. The word "generate" means "create: to bring something into existence."(Encarta Dictionary) Thus, as was Jephthah's daughter, the widow's son of the city of Nain, Jairus' daughter, these being "generated" or being brought into existence, so likewise Jesus was also "generated" or brought into existence, and had a beginning, just as any son or daughter, Jesus being the only one directly created (only-begotten) by God.

Jesus himself said: "And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God."(Rev 3:14) Jesus Christ is thus God's first act of creation, before "the beginning" when Jehovah God "created the heavens and the earth."(Gen 1:1)

The apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians, that "there is no God but one (not three). For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him."(1 Cor 8:4-6)

Jesus, on the night before his death, told his eleven faithful apostles: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."(John 14:6) Thus, through Jesus we approach the Father in prayer. The apostle Paul wrote to the Timothy: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus."(1 Tim 2:5) As God's "only-begotten Son", Jesus serves as a "mediator between God and men."

Psalms 65:1, 2 says: "For you there is praise—silence—, O God, in Zion.....O Hearer of prayer, even to you people of all flesh will come." It is to God that we direct our prayers or petitions, for Jesus himself directed all his prayers to God. The apostle Paul wrote at Hebrews 5:7: "In the days of his flesh [Christ] offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear."

In addition, Jesus worshipped the Father. When speaking with the Samaritan woman near the city of Sychar, he told her: "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.” Hence, Jesus had "godly fear", worshipping the Father, Jehovah God, for he loved his heavenly Father, praying to him and setting the perfect example for us to follow in worshipping "the only true God."(John 17:3)
 

tomwebster

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The apostle John wrote in about 98 C.E., that "these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God."(John 20:31) The apostle Peter, in answering Jesus question as to whom he thought he was, said: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matt 16:16) Saul, after having received back his sight from being blinded by Jesus and who later became the apostle Paul, "immediately in the synagogues he began to preach Jesus, that this One is the Son of God."(Acts 9:20) Jesus is hence, the "Son of God", not "God the Son" nor God.

Jesus is the Messiah (Hebrew) or Christ (Greek), meaning "anointed one." At Psalms 2:2, it says that "the kings of earth take their stand and high officials themselves have massed together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.("anointed one", Hebrew ma·shi´ach) Thus, Jehovah God's "anointed one" here at Psalms 2:2 is the one that was prophesied to become the Messiah or Christ, Jesus. Jesus was anointed by God to serve in the official position as Christ.

However, when Jesus was born to Mary, he was not at that time "the Christ." This did not occur until the fall of the year 29 C.E., after his baptism by John the Baptist in the Jordan River. At that time, "after being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him."(Matt 3:16) Then a voice from the heavens said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”(Matt 3:17) Jesus is thus Jehovah God's Son, and at this time became the "anointed One" or Christ immediately following his baptism.

Jesus, though, is more than just a "Son." He is God's "only-begotten Son." Jesus, in speaking with Nicodemus, told him that "God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."(John 3:16) The expression "only-begotten Son" applies only to Jesus. What does this mean ?

The Greek word rendered as "only-begotten" is monogenes, and literally means "single of it's kind, only", or "the only member of a kin or kind",(Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144) and is used to describe the relation of both sons and daughters to their parents. For example, at Judges 11:34, concerning Jephthah's daughter, it said that "she was absolutely the only child (Hebrew weraq´ hi’ yechi·dhah´; Greek Septuagint monogenes). Besides her he had neither son nor daughter."

And in the online interlinear, Scripture4all, the meaning of monogenes is "only-generated", as at John 3:16 and 18 concerning Jesus, Luke 7:12 with regard to the son of "widow of Nain", and Luke 8:42, concerning the daughter of Jairus. The word "generate" means "create: to bring something into existence."(Encarta Dictionary) Thus, as was Jephthah's daughter, the widow's son of the city of Nain, Jairus' daughter, these being "generated" or being brought into existence, so likewise Jesus was also "generated" or brought into existence, and had a beginning, just as any son or daughter, Jesus being the only one directly created (only-begotten) by God.

Jesus himself said: "And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God."(Rev 3:14) Jesus Christ is thus God's first act of creation, before "the beginning" when Jehovah God "created the heavens and the earth."(Gen 1:1)

The apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians, that "there is no God but one (not three). For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him."(1 Cor 8:4-6)

Jesus, on the night before his death, told his eleven faithful apostles: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."(John 14:6) Thus, through Jesus we approach the Father in prayer. The apostle Paul wrote to the Timothy: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus."(1 Tim 2:5) As God's "only-begotten Son", Jesus serves as a "mediator between God and men."

Psalms 65:1, 2 says: "For you there is praise—silence—, O God, in Zion.....O Hearer of prayer, even to you people of all flesh will come." It is to God that we direct our prayers or petitions, for Jesus himself directed all his prayers to God. The apostle Paul wrote at Hebrews 5:7: "In the days of his flesh [Christ] offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear."

In addition, Jesus worshipped the Father. When speaking with the Samaritan woman near the city of Sychar, he told her: "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.” Hence, Jesus had "godly fear", worshipping the Father, Jehovah God, for he loved his heavenly Father, praying to him and setting the perfect example for us to follow in worshipping "the only true God."(John 17:3)



It sounds like you are trying to say that Christ was not God, if you are you are 100% wrong. Jesus Christ is 100% GOD. He is “Emmanuel, God with us.”

Do you understand what Php 2 is saying?

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus Christ Is God!

Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, is 100% God and 100% man, human or your faith is in vain. If He, Yeshua Hamashiach is not 100% God, He is not sinless; He is not the Lamb of God that “takes away the sin of the world. If He, Yeshua Hamashiach, is not 100% human, He cannot die in our place.

Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, is the Word, Logos of God in human form. He, Yeshua Hamashiach, is Eternal, with The Father, Yahavah, YHVH, and The Holy Spirit, Ruach Ha-Kodesh.
 

Thankful 1

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Hello there! Well its the main reason why I logged on todday, Its something thats been hammering at the back of my mind, that I dont really understand, that I dont really associate him with my troubles or joys , that I dont view him the same way as I view God or the holy spirit. There's something not right with that, since I call myself a Christian and I feel I am a Christian.

There are so many names, the Lord, the Messiah, the Son. He is all those and more? He is God's only begotten son? What does begotten really mean in that context? After all arent I his child?

I view God, as God and most definitely to myself ,a Father. Maybe thats where im getting baffled, because im human , and so fixated with the whole Father concept. So who is? Jesus is God?Saying that confuses me. Jesus is my Saviour? Yes i believe he died on the cross for us. I accept that, but im sure that not all there is to it,is it? I pray to God and only to God so very openly, i've never done anything else. What am I supposed to do with my belief in Jesus?Im not processing something, please help to simply this.

Who is Jesus to you? How do you apply this to your spirituality?
Jesus is God. Scripture tells us this is true. My witness is that Jesus personally told me he is God.
 

Guestman

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It sounds like you are trying to say that Christ was not God, if you are you are 100% wrong. Jesus Christ is 100% GOD. He is “Emmanuel, God with us.”

Do you understand what Php 2 is saying?

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus Christ Is God!

Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, is 100% God and 100% man, human or your faith is in vain. If He, Yeshua Hamashiach is not 100% God, He is not sinless; He is not the Lamb of God that “takes away the sin of the world. If He, Yeshua Hamashiach, is not 100% human, He cannot die in our place.

Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, is the Word, Logos of God in human form. He, Yeshua Hamashiach, is Eternal, with The Father, Yahavah, YHVH, and The Holy Spirit, Ruach Ha-Kodesh.

If Jesus is God, then this poses a problem, for (1) that the apostle Paul did not say that he was equal to God, but that "although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."(Phil 2:6) (2) Jesus himself said that "the Father is greater than I am."(John 14:28) An example in math is 5 > 1. In this case ' the Father > the Son, ' not the Father = to the Son. Consider this: If Jesus is God, then would it be necessary for him to ' rob' (King James Bible) this position if already has it ?

In addition, (3) if you looked more closely at Philippians 2:9, it can readily be seen that Jesus is not God, for how could "God also hath highly exalted him, and given him (Jesus) a name which is above every name" ? God cannot be exalted any higher than he already is, for he is Almighty.(Gen 17:1; 28:3) (4) The apostle Peter told the Jews concerning Jesus: "This Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses. Therefore because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out this which you see and hear."(Acts 2:32, 33) Could Jesus be God and yet be "exalted to the right hand of God " ?

Peter further told the Jews: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."(Acts 2:36, King James Bible) (5) If Jesus is God, then again, how could be be "made" "both Lord and Christ" by God ?

And if Jesus is God, (6) then why did he say: "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."(John 7:16, 17, King James Bible) Why did Jesus clearly distinguish what he taught as "doctrine" as not his if he is God ? And why did he use the word "or" in verse 17, which completely separated him from God ? If Jesus is God, then all that Jesus, Paul and Peter said or wrote would have to be "thrown out the window". Furthermore, what Jesus said concerning his Father being greater than him would be a lie if he is God. However, the apostle Peter wrote that Jesus "committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth."(1 Pet 2:22)

For those who say that Jesus is God diametrically opposes what Jesus, Paul and Peter said, for Jesus also said "that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."(John 8:28, King James Bible) How could Jesus be God, and (7) yet "do nothing of myself " and be ' taught by the Father" ?

Of God, Isaiah 40:13, 14 says: "Who hath directed the spirit of the Lord, or being his counseller hath taught him ? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding ?"(King James Bible) This rhetorical question has only one answer concerning God, that no one "taught him" or "shewed to him the way of understanding ". Thus, for Jesus to be God would require that the Bible be "thrown out the window" and accept the "orthodox" teaching promoted by the churches since the days of Constantine in the fourth century C.E.
 

tomwebster

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Gm, you do not correctly understand Phil 2! I think we have argued this topic out before and I see no reason to do it again. You keep thinking as your doctrine tells you to. You’ll find out soon enough.
 

mjrhealth

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In the beginning, the law stood between man and God, yet there was no man who could fulfill the law, so God sent us Jesus, He came, fulfilled the law and so now stands between us and God, when you hold on to Him, you are holding on to God, when you speak to Him, you are speaking to God, when you worship HIm, you worship God, for they are in agreement with one another, Jesus said, " when you have seeing me then you have seeing the father" for Jesus only showed Gods will and did nothing outside of it, so when Jesus said He came to serve it was because that is what God does, when Jesus said He came to heal, He did because that is what God does, Jesus is the reflection of our father and that is why God desires that we become like Him.

In His Love
 

rockytopva

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In thinking about the topic "Who is Jesus?" a quote from John Bunyan comes to mind "Oh friends! Cry unto God to reveal unto you Jesus Christ! For there is none that teaches like he!"
 

TexUs

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If Jesus is God, then this poses a problem
It certainly poses a problem, but the problem is only for you.


He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.


By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
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Guestman

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It certainly poses a problem, but the problem is only for you.


He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.


By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
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You have not carefully read Colossians 1:15, for it says that Jesus "is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation", not God. Is an image of a person the same as the person ? Is a picture of a person the same as the person ? No. When you have taken a picture of a friend, that picture is not the actual friend. When you put the picture away, are you putting your friend away ? The picture is stored away, but your friend is walking around as any person. An image or picture is thus not the person. Hence, Jesus is spoken of only as the "image of the invisible God", not God himself. Jesus perfectly reflects his Father, for he told his apostles: "He that has seen me has seen the Father also."(John 14:9)

And of Colossians 1:18, 19, it says that "he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things; because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him." Does this say that Jesus is God ? No. Rather, the apostle Paul wrote that ' God saw good for all fullness to dwell in ' Jesus. According to God’s good pleasure, Jesus Christ occupies the foremost place in the congregation, not only as regards preeminence and authority, but also in having the “fullness” of everything that Christians need. The Son of God is the embodiment of divine qualities, including wisdom. Hence, he, not any human on earth, is the one to whom true Christians look as their exemplar and the appointed source of guidance and instruction. In addition, if Jesus is God, then he would already have had "all fullness" dwelling in him for an eternity, not given it later by God.

Just as Steve Jobs has handed all the affairs of Apple to Tim Cook to run the company, so likewise has God seen fit to hand over "all authority" to Jesus. Jesus himself said after his resurrection: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth."(Matt 28:18) If Jesus is God, then would "all authority" have to be "given" to him ? If Jesus is God, then he is Almighty, and already has "all authority". It needs to be remembered, as King Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged of God, that "all the inhabitants of the earth are being considered as merely nothing, and he is doing according to his own will among the army of the heavens and the inhabitants of the earth. And there exists no one that can check his hand or that can say to him, ‘What have you been doing?’ "(Dan 4:35)

If Jesus is God, then why did he defer the sitting at his right and left hand in the kingdom to his Father ? He told the mother of James and John, that "this sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”(Matt 20:23) If Jesus is God, then why was the choosing of who sits in the "kingdom", "not mine to give" ? Furthermore, if Jesus is God, then why was unable to provide the "day and hour" as to when the great tribulation would begin, but said that "only the Father" knew this ?(Matt 24:36)

Most never give careful consideration to what the Bible says about Jesus and his role in God's eternal purpose. Rather, because orthodox "Christianity" has taught that Jesus is God for centuries, since the time of Constsantine in the fourth century C.E., it has become accepted as "truth". The ability to reason on the Bible is for many something that is just not done, but accepts what is given out by the churches. When Jesus was on the earth, only a few were willing to go against orthodox Judaism and reason on Jesus as being the Messiah (Dan 9:24-27), and thus accede to his direction.(John 1:49) On the other hand, the religious leaders opposed him, never recognizing that he was the promised Messiah or Christ.(Matt 12:22-24; John 11:47, 53)

It also is important to realize that the word Messiah (Hebrew ma·shi´ach) means "anointed" or "anointed one". If Jesus is the "anointed one" of God, then how could he be God ? The patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are also called God's “anointed ones (Hebrew ma·shi´ach).” (1Chron 16:16, 22) Are they God ? In entering into a synagogue at the beginning of his ministry, Jesus read from Isaiah 61:1,2, saying: "Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.” (Luke 4:18, 19) Could Jesus be God and have "Jehovah's spirit upon me", being "anointed" by him ?
 

TexUs

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Rather, the apostle Paul wrote that ' God saw good for all fullness to dwell in ' Jesus. According to God’s good pleasure, Jesus Christ occupies the foremost place in the congregation, not only as regards preeminence and authority, but also in having the “fullness” of everything that Christians need. The Son of God is the embodiment of divine qualities, including wisdom. Hence, he, not any human on earth, is the one to whom true Christians look as their exemplar and the appointed source of guidance and instruction. In addition, if Jesus is God, then he would already have had "all fullness" dwelling in him for an eternity, not given it later by God.
I'm not sure if admitting that everything Christians need being in Christ really helps your case. Because if everything Christians need (which includes God's death) is in Christ then it requires that Christ was God.

Secondly, the word "dwell" is an active infinitive. "Given later" is in no way whatsoever, supported by this text.


"All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth."(Matt 28:18) If Jesus is God, then would "all authority" have to be "given" to him ? If Jesus is God, then he is Almighty, and already has "all authority".
Simple... Christ, while fully God, was still fully man and came to live as a man. He limited himself. If you read the rest of Scripture you'd find that he, as that limited man, only did his Father's will. So Christ describing the authority as being "given" to him as an exception to his limitation.

"I'm not simply a man, but I've been given all authority as an exception to my limitations as a man". To heal, forgive, walk on water, etc.

You see this over and over again, the concept of God speaking in our terms. The entire Bible is evidence of that. God needs not the Bible in order to make himself "full", so to speak, but he opts to explain himself in a way we can understand it, through fellow humans and language. This is also no different.

When the Bible speaks of us being like dew... Here in the morning and gone in the morning. This is simply terms that we humans can understand: we are insignificant. We don't even make it to noontime.
Do you think God really had to say that for it to be true, or was it true without him saying that? Indeed the case is the latter. He simply desired to express it to us in terms we understood, exactly like, "All authority has been given me".

It needs to be remembered, as King Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged of God, that "all the inhabitants of the earth are being considered as merely nothing, and he is doing according to his own will among the army of the heavens and the inhabitants of the earth. And there exists no one that can check his hand or that can say to him, ‘What have you been doing?’ "(Dan 4:35)
I don't know why you believe this passage to be of issue to a Trinitarian because I'd simply respond that since Jesus and the Father are one (John 10:30), his hand is still not being checked.

2 Peter 1:1, directly states Jesus is God.

If Jesus is God, then why did he defer the sitting at his right and left hand in the kingdom to his Father ? He told the mother of James and John, that "this sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”(Matt 20:23) If Jesus is God, then why was the choosing of who sits in the "kingdom", "not mine to give" ? Furthermore, if Jesus is God, then why was unable to provide the "day and hour" as to when the great tribulation would begin, but said that "only the Father" knew this ?(Matt 24:36)
You need to realize the roles in the Trinity. You do not have one God with three separate but equal carbon copies of one another. I think you clearly show your ignorance for trinitarian theory even trying to make such arguments.
Each performs and ops to be limited in the role they play.
Read Ephesians 1:3-5 for an example of how the Father, though distinct from Christ, they work to accomplish exactly the same seamless goal.
Colossians 1:12-14 is another.
Titus 3:4-7 speaks of both the Father and Christ being our Savior. Singular. But both are mentioned. Again, two entities which work together but which are the same.
The Father plans our salvation, and oversees all things.

Christ is limited in human form. He was limited as a human and thus did the will of the Father. The Father opted to run the entire salvation process through him.
John 6:38

The Holy Spirit's role is to minister to Christians here on earth.
John 14:26
John 15:26
Acts 2:33

Three roles but they all accomplish the goal of the same God.

Most never give careful consideration to what the Bible says about Jesus and his role in God's eternal purpose. Rather, because orthodox "Christianity" has taught that Jesus is God for centuries, since the time of Constsantine in the fourth century C.E., it has become accepted as "truth".
You do realize the people that actually walked with him considered him God, don't you? This didn't start in the fourth century.
Peter
Thomas
John

Ignatius called Jesus God 16 times in his letters written about 110AD, if you want a non-Biblical example.

Fact is your argument is full of fail that this was invented centuries later.
 

Neon

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Hope that everyone is having a good evening. After reading your replies, well your replies just made me realise that I've been asking the wrong question, quite silly of me. Its clear that none of you are wrong. Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it. God bless you . Really great posts :).
 

Guestman

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I'm not sure if admitting that everything Christians need being in Christ really helps your case. Because if everything Christians need (which includes God's death) is in Christ then it requires that Christ was God.

Secondly, the word "dwell" is an active infinitive. "Given later" is in no way whatsoever, supported by this text.



Simple... Christ, while fully God, was still fully man and came to live as a man. He limited himself. If you read the rest of Scripture you'd find that he, as that limited man, only did his Father's will. So Christ describing the authority as being "given" to him as an exception to his limitation.

"I'm not simply a man, but I've been given all authority as an exception to my limitations as a man". To heal, forgive, walk on water, etc.

You see this over and over again, the concept of God speaking in our terms. The entire Bible is evidence of that. God needs not the Bible in order to make himself "full", so to speak, but he opts to explain himself in a way we can understand it, through fellow humans and language. This is also no different.

When the Bible speaks of us being like dew... Here in the morning and gone in the morning. This is simply terms that we humans can understand: we are insignificant. We don't even make it to noontime.
Do you think God really had to say that for it to be true, or was it true without him saying that? Indeed the case is the latter. He simply desired to express it to us in terms we understood, exactly like, "All authority has been given me".


I don't know why you believe this passage to be of issue to a Trinitarian because I'd simply respond that since Jesus and the Father are one (John 10:30), his hand is still not being checked.

2 Peter 1:1, directly states Jesus is God.


You need to realize the roles in the Trinity. You do not have one God with three separate but equal carbon copies of one another. I think you clearly show your ignorance for trinitarian theory even trying to make such arguments.
Each performs and ops to be limited in the role they play.
Read Ephesians 1:3-5 for an example of how the Father, though distinct from Christ, they work to accomplish exactly the same seamless goal.
Colossians 1:12-14 is another.
Titus 3:4-7 speaks of both the Father and Christ being our Savior. Singular. But both are mentioned. Again, two entities which work together but which are the same.
The Father plans our salvation, and oversees all things.

Christ is limited in human form. He was limited as a human and thus did the will of the Father. The Father opted to run the entire salvation process through him.
John 6:38

The Holy Spirit's role is to minister to Christians here on earth.
John 14:26
John 15:26
Acts 2:33

Three roles but they all accomplish the goal of the same God.


You do realize the people that actually walked with him considered him God, don't you? This didn't start in the fourth century.
Peter
Thomas
John

Ignatius called Jesus God 16 times in his letters written about 110AD, if you want a non-Biblical example.

Fact is your argument is full of fail that this was invented centuries later.

You say that "if everything Christians need (which includes God's death) is in Christ then it requires that Christ was God." Does it ? First off, God does not die, for Habakukk 1:12 says: "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." Psalms 90:2 says: "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God."(King James Bible) In addition, the apostle Paul says, at 1 Timothy 1:17, that God is "King of eternity, incorruptible"( King James Bible reads "King eternal, immortal"). Hence, being "incorruptible" or "immortal" ("immortal" means "deathlessness" or cannot die, Greek word a·tha·na·si´a , formed by the negative prefix a followed by a form of the word for “death” [tha´na·tos] ), God does not or cannot die.

On the other hand, Jesus died.(Matt 27:50; Luke 23:46) And therefore on this basis alone, the belief that Jesus was "fully God and fully man" does not hold water, for no one who is immortal or incorruptible ever sees death. Otherwise, what Paul wrote would be a lie and any true Christian is fully aware that Paul wrote his letters under inspiration.(2 Tim 3:16) The word "trinity" is not in the Bible and has only come into existence because Tertullian (160 ?-220 ? C.E.) coined the word "trinitas", the Latin form of the word "trinity".

Do I show my "clear ignorance of trinitarian theory" ? No. Rather, I show that the trinity doctrine is baseless and without merit, that it was conjured up and placed among so-called "Christian" teachings, along with "hellfire", immortality of the soul, clergy-laity class, that all good people go to heaven, to name just a few. You use Ephesians 1:3-5 as support for the trinity, when, in fact, it provides a basis that Jesus is not God, but subordinate to his Father, for it says: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."(ESV or English Standard version) This is inspired evidence that Jesus has a God and a Father, not is God.

Further, the use of John 6:38 also testifies that Jesus is not God, but subserviant to his Father, doing his will, for Jesus said: "I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me." Your and others line of reasoning is nonsensical. Most never carefully examine the Scriptures, and are unlike the ancient Boreans, who was spoken of as receiving "the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so."(Acts 17:11)

And just a note concerning Ignatius, within about 10 years of the apostle John's death, he was already on the road of apostasy, laying out the beginning of a clergy-laity class in about 110 C.E. He fits into category of what Paul told the Ephesian elders just before his departing: "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."(Acts 20:29, 30)
 

TexUs

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First off, God does not die, for Habakukk 1:12 says: "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die."
That's right. Except that... Jesus didn't die in the sense this is speaking of.

On the other hand, Jesus died.(Matt 27:50; Luke 23:46)
Except the problem is that, those verses don't say Jesus died.

It simply says he gave up his breath, or gave up his spirit. You'll then note the only thing that died in any sense was his body and his spirit went to "paradise" (see Luke 23:43) for three days.

So therefore on this basis alone, your argument does not hold water, as you say.

You use Ephesians 1:3-5 as support for the trinity, when, in fact, it provides a basis that Jesus is not God, but subordinate to his Father, for it says: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."(ESV or English Standard version) This is inspired evidence that Jesus has a God and a Father, not is God.
You'd be correct in that Jesus has a father (again, read the roles) however this does not say Jesus is not God.
You'll not the phrase you quoted is describing God the Father- and not Christ. Read the context as well.

Further, the use of John 6:38 also testifies that Jesus is not God, but subserviant to his Father, doing his will, for Jesus said: "I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me."
Once more this again, doesn't say that Jesus isn't God, as you claim.
It does say Christ does the will of the Father, though.

And just a note concerning Ignatius, within about 10 years of the apostle John's death, he was already on the road of apostasy, laying out the beginning of a clergy-laity class in about 110 C.E. He fits into category of what Paul told the Ephesian elders just before his departing: "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."(Acts 20:29, 30)
It really doesn't matter what you believe. The facts are the people that walked with Christ considered him to be God.
 

Disciple

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Jesus is the Messiah, the Savior.. God's Son sent to reconcile us to him, and atone for our sins, he is Lord.