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Who Is Jesus?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Neon, Jan 16, 2011.

  1. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    I think that some have been a little judgemental here, but please, watch what you write. In your statement, you said that Jesus is NOT God, but the Son of God. Such a view is vigorously contradicted by Scripture. If the Word of God is the only thing that will stand, may I be so bold as to ask you, where do you stand? If you believe that Jesus is NOT God, but just his Son, you have taken an enormous step off the Scripture into the quicksand. Now if I'm going have the title of judgemental thrown at me, I don't care. I am NOT propagating what my opinion is, I am merely passing on what is established in Scripture. If someone disagrees with me (I'm talking about the doctrines concerning the Godhead), they are not disagreeing with me, but with the Scripture. Everything I have stated about Jesus can be solidly backed up with Scripture.
    I agree with what you have said about Christians. We are not to condemn, but to give life. However, hark, this is what the Scripture says. Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
    If you reject the Scripture, you WILL be judged by the very same Scripture you rejected. I haven't judged anyone here. I have used Scripture to back up the Oneness of God. Now it is up to you to decide whether the Oneness of God is truly of God or not. Based on your decision and follow-through, you will be judged by the Scripture.
    You do seem to be pointing the finger at people in this forum, claiming them to be self-righteous and full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Please, you cannot judge the inside of a man. God ALONE has the authority to do such. In the future, please refrain from such comments. They not only damage you and others, but at the moment, from what I have read, you have been far more judgemental than the person to whom you directed those comments. If you do have something, don't just let loose with your thinking, but back it up with the Scripture, and don't be hasty. Analyse the Scripture first. Perhaps your view is erroneous.
     
  2. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    John 10 ESV

    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
     
  3. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    You have spent a great deal of research, unfortuanately, such a view is untenable in the light of the Scripture. Now, after reading, it seems that you think I believe in the Trinity. Let me set it straight. I do NOT believe in the trinity. I believe that there is One God, his name is Jesus, and there is no other beside him.


    Before I explain why, I am going to explain, yet again, Jesus' dual personality, as this is the key to understanding Jesus.


    Did Mary give birth to a boy? Yes! Then that boy was Mary's son! Who was the father? God was. If God was the father, then Mary's son was also God's only begotten son (we say only begotten because while Adam was created, Jesus Christ was a result of a miraculous conception in Mary's womb. It was a one-of-a-kind event)! Now while Jesus had feelings and the same anatomy as us, his spirit was nothing like ours. It wasn't created, it was the Creator. The spirit inside Jesus Christ was the omiscient, omnipotent, omnipresent spirit of God! Therefore, there were two sides to Jesus, or a dual personality. On his mother's side, he died, but on his father's side, he rose from the dead. On his mother's side, he was tempted, but on his father's side he forgave sins. On his mother's side he was hungry, but on his father's side he fed the thousands. The same applies for when he talked. Jesus generally spoke as an everyday man, but there were times when he spoke as God. All you have to do is ask yourself, is he acting as God here, or is he acting as man?


    • You previously stated that Jesus didn't speak as God. Who then was he speaking as when he said to the Jews, "Before Abraham was, I AM."? The Jews understood him perfectly. They tried to stone him for blasphemy. If the Jews, who were so spiritually blind, could see what Jesus was claiming, why can't we? Jesus was claiming to be the self-existent one because he WAS!
    • Who was he speaking as when he said to Philip, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father." ? No son would say that of his father! It stands to reason that Jesus said that because HE WAS THE FATHER!
    • Who was Jesus speaking as when he said "Your sins are forgiven." Only God can forgive sins! The Jews realised that!
    Now let's have a look at John 1. This passage of Scripture is so mauled that it's not funny. Let's highlight some basic facts that it declares to us.


    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    The declaration in this sentence is that the Word IS God. Some people attempt to separate the Word. They say it proves that there is a trinity. Wow, I didn't know that my voice was a separate person to me! It seems absurd, but that is exactly what people do when they separate the Word and God. You can't separate what God says from God himself! The Word was God!


    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    Let's remove any doubt about this. ALL things were made by the Word, and WITHOUT the Word, NOTHING could be made! Doesn't that say it all? The Word was fully God, there was no one else to create anything!


    Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    What a sad fact that back then they didn't acknowledge their Creator and even now we don't.


    Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    Wow! This verse is amazing! The very Word that created the world, became flesh! What a staggering thought! That the Creator was walking amongst a fallen creation, trying to save them!


    You said that Jesus does not deserve even being equal with the Father. According to John, you're wrong. Rev_1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. John called Jesus the one which was, which is, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY! John said that Jesus had ALL power!


    It gets worse. According to "Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism." there is one Lord. Now read 1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. The one Lord is Jesus! And if we are going to distinguish between Lord and God, the Scriptures don't. They even put them together. Luk_1:68. They declare Jesus to be the only God there is.


    In Isaiah 9:6, the son who was to born would be the EVERLASTING FATHER! Or better said as the FATHER OF ETERNITY! How could that be? We do not know, except that it happened. By some glorious miracle God fused divinity and humanity together to reach a lost human race with his love. This is the mystery Paul was talking about.1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. We cannot understand how the babe of Bethlehem could also be the Father of eternity. It cannot be explained how it happened, but we know it happened.


    Now in closing, I will state the solution. When the word son or christ is used, it is referring to the humanity, or the ultimate manifestation of God. It was the son/christ who died on the cross, not God, because God cannot die, only Jesus' humanity could die, and it was the son who was risen from the grave, for as God, Jesus filled the entire universe. Please note, the son/christ did NOT have a separate spirit to that of the Father, but rather the exact same spirit that filled the universe. We cannot explain how that can be, but it is evident in Scripture that it is true.
    I love analogies, so I will give one here. The son was the image of the invisible God parallels with a ballon filled with air. You cannot see air, but we know it's there. When we have a ballon, we 'see' the air that is filling that baloon. The same with the son/christ. We cannot see God because he is a spirit, but we can see the son/christ who is filled with God. There is no other spirit inside the son/christ, but God, therefore when we worship the son, we are in effect worshiping God because the spirit that is giving the son/christ life IS God. If it wasn't for the body of flesh, God couldn't have come to earth and died and rose again to purchase our salvation because God cannot be seen, neither die. The son/christ was filled with the spirit of God because if it wasn't, all it would be was just an empty shell with no life whatsoever. It was the spirit of God that gave life to the son/christ.
    Just remember to apply the key to understanding Jesus. Is he acting as a man or as God? You will find that the gospel will fit into place perfectly. If you ever have any questions regarding it, contact me and I will do my best to explain.


    Jesus, the one and only God who will forever reign, the King of kings and the Lord of lords, the same yesterday, today, and forever! Amen.
     
  4. KingdomCome

    KingdomCome New Member

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    Groundzero,

    I say this with all respect: are you your father?

    Christ Jesus becomes one with the Father:

    1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

    My labours are that all things shall be subdued unto Christ Jesus...

    Please take it to heart — do not deny the Son by making Him the Father. Christ Jesus is born of the Father
    1Jo 2:
    21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
    22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
    23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
    24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

    1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
     
  5. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    Dear Kingdomcome,


    You seem to have miss the most important sentence in that paragraph concerning Jesus stating that he and the Father were one. The reason that Jesus could say such a thing was because inside of him wasn't the spirit of a man like you or me, it was the spirit of the Almighty God who filled eternity. Jesus was saying that HE WAS THE FATHER!


    Your points are good, but what about all those other examples I gave of Jesus acting as God? What about him forgiving sins? What about the fact that John called him ALMIGHTY? I am yet to see them explained, and they never will be because Jesus was God!


    It is obvious that you have misunderstood when I wrote about the dual personality. I have NOT made the Son the Father, rather, I have distinguished between them. The Son wasn't God because all the son was, was an image of the invisible God. Something that we could see. By some glorious miracle, God fused deity and humanity together and thus was born the man Christ Jesus. He experienced emotions like you and me, yet at the same time, he was the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God. Who died on the cross? The Son, for God cannot die. Who was risen from the dead? The Son. Previously I had a scripture verse given to me that said something along the lines of life given to the Son by the spirit. If God's spirit ever left the Christ, we wouldn't have another man walking amongst us. All we would have is a body with no spirit.


    On that note, you seem to have ignored that Jesus is also the name of the Father, and the Holy Ghost. Do we have three persons in the Godhead with the same name? i don't think so. THERE IS ONE, A LITERAL ONE! Jesus could say he was the Father because the spirit inside that body of flesh WAS the FATHER. I would never dare to deny the deity of Jesus, for there is a day coming where EVERY knee will bow, and EVERY tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord. [bible='Philippians 2:10,11'][/bible] You are no doubt going to say, well, that is to the glory of God the Father! Of course it is! What spirit is it that indwells Jesus Christ? The Father! There was nothing special about the ark of the covenant except that God's presence was in it! And then it was special, extremely special. The same with the son/christ. All that the son/christ is, is flesh, it's the spirit inside that makes it so special. When every knee bows and every tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord, it will glorify the Father, because the spirit inside Christ is none other than the Father!


    You made a point about 1 john. I don't see how that shows Jesus as only human. In fact, it points the other way. If Jesus isn't the Christ, who is he? You can believe that he is God or you can believe he is just a man, it makes no difference if you don't believe he is the Christ, the anointed one sent to save. In the previous verse John made it clear that he is writing to those who have been saved. If Jesus isn't God, like you are stating, how is it that by denying the Son we deny the Father? The only way that is possible is if inside the Son was the Spirit of the Father. Then we are denying the FATHER!
     
  6. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    According to your position on Jesus having a "dual personality", this places Jesus as being schizophrenic, or having a form of psychosis. That Jesus is not God, can well be attested by his own words. Jesus told the Jews "that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.”(John 8:28, 29) How can Jesus be God and yet was ' taught by the Father ' ? How can Jesus be God and yet always does "the things pleasing to" the Father, who is God ?

    It is obvious that you have not considered Isaiah 40:13, 14, in which the prophet Isaiah wrote about God: "Who has taken the proportions of the spirit of Jehovah, and who as his man of counsel can make him know anything ? With whom did he consult together that one might make him understand, or who teaches him in the path of justice, or teaches him knowledge, or makes him know the very way of real understanding ? " Thus, God is not taught by anyone !

    Your ability to reason has many flaws, saying that Jesus "spirit....wasn't created, it was the Creator." This goes contrary to Jesus words that he was "the beginning of the creation by God" at Revelation 3:14. You are contradicting Jesus himself, and in effect, callling Jesus a liar. You make statements that are a contradiction to the Bible's statements, trying to divide Jesus in half. The apostle Paul wrote that "there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus."(1 Tim 2:5) Paul further said that Jesus was a "corresponding ransom for all".(1 Tim 2:6) Paul used the Greek word an·ti´ly·tron and not just the word "ransom"(Greek lytron, as at Matthew 20:28) as the King James Bible inaccurately does.

    Had Jesus been a demigod or half man and half god, he could not have been a "corresponding ransom", equal to Adam as a perfect man. Do you understand what it means the word correspond means ? Jesus could be neither higher or lesser than Adam as a perfect man in order to correspond to him and give a "ransom for all". He could not be God, for this would not have balanced the scales of justice, "soul for soul" principle at Exodus 21:23.

    So many people use John 8:58 as rendered by the King James Bible to assert that Jesus said he was God. However, if indeed Jesus is God simply because of the wording "I AM" (Greek ego eimi), then so is the man that was born blind in John 9, for at John 9:9, he says literally: "I am".(Greek ego eimi) It is of interest that the King James Bible though adds the word "he" to the sentence. Why would they add the word "he" here and not in what Jesus said ? Bias ? Yes.

    And also of interest is that God's name does not mean "I AM", as rendered by the King James Bible at Exodus 3:14, but more accurately as "I Shall Become Who I am Becoming".(online Scripture4all interlinear) Had you done your homework, it could have been found that God's name of Jehovah has as it's basis the Hebrew verb ha·wah´ (become); meaning “He Causes to Become”. An even more accurate reading is "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” (New World Translation)

    And how could Jesus be the "Father" since he himself said that he was "the only-begotten Son of God" when speaking to Nicodemus.(John 3:16) He further said to the Jews: "Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me. Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father."(John 6:45, 46) No imperfect man has seen the Father, Jehovah God, while on the earth. If Jesus were the Father, then who did he pray to ? Why did Jesus, after Peter had cut off the high priest slave's ear, say: "Or do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father to supply me at this moment more than twelve legions of angels ? "(Matt 26:53) if he is God and the Father ? In addition, how could Jesus say that he was "from God" if he is God ? As it has been said, most are unwilling to reason effectively or properly on the Bible, but rather have accepted the "orthodox" teachings of the churches of Christendom as de facto.

    John 1: 1 has been used so often without consideration for it's exact wording. The apostle John used the Greek word ho, a definite article meaning "the" in the first and last instances of John 1:1, 2, establishing that he was speaking of God Almighty. However, in the second instance, he did not use the definite article ho. Why ? To ensure that those reading the book of John would recognize Jesus as "a god". Thus, John 1:1, 2 reads accurately: "In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God (literally "the God" or ho theos), and the Word was a god (theos without ho). This one was in [the] beginning with God (literally "the God" or ho theos)."(New World Translation)

    Are you not aware that where the word "god" is used without a definite article or anarthrous, it is rendered as a "a god" at Acts 12:22 and 28:6 in the King James Bible. It is furthermore of interest that John 1:1 was translated as "In the beginning existed the Word and the Word existed with the God and a god was the Word " in Sahidic Coptic. Sahidic Coptic was a language that was spoken in Egypt in the centuries immediately following Jesus’ earthly ministry, and the Sahidic dialect was an early literary form of the language. Regarding the earliest Coptic translations of the Bible, The Anchor Bible Dictionary says: “Since the [Septuagint] and the [Christian Greek Scriptures] were being translated into Coptic during the 3d century C.E., the Coptic version is based on [Greek manuscripts] which are significantly older than the vast majority of extant witnesses.”

    The Sahidic Coptic translation uses an indefinite article with the word “god” in the final part of John 1:1. Thus, when rendered into modern English, the translation reads: “And the Word was a god.” Evidently, those ancient translators realized that John’s words recorded at John 1:1 did not mean that Jesus was to be identified as Almighty God. The Word was a god, not Almighty God. Possibly, this Sahidic Coptic manuscript precedes the King James Bible by more than a thousand years.

    Hence, Jesus is "a god" and not "the God". This is also seen at Isaiah 9:6, in which he is called "Mighty God" (Hebrew ’El Gib·bohr´) and not "almighty God (Hebrew El Shad·dai´ as in Gen 17:1)." It is seen too, that Jesus is called "Prince of Peace" and not ' King of Peace '. He is thus subservient to his Father, Jehovah God, for a "prince" is below a king. That Jesus is the "Everlasting Father" does not make him God, for these are official offices that he oversees. And had you looked more closely at Isaiah 9:7, the reason he holds these positions of "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace" is because of the "very zeal of Jehovah of armies."(Isa 9:7) Hence, his Father, Jehovah God, has given him these offices in order to restore genuine peace to the earth, whereby obedient mankind will reach perfection and live on the earth "in the abundance of peace."(Ps 37:11; Rev 21:3-5)
     
  7. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    Are we going to limit God? Dear friend, I have not stepped outside the Scriptures during my discussion with you. I don't know how it could be that Jesus had two personalities, but I can see it in the Scripture.

    I have already gone very in-depth into the dual personality. The dual personality can explain every Scripture, and I have already demonstrated how. The only way that Jesus could learn and yet know all things was because HE HAD A DUAL PERSONALITY. HE COULD ACT AS MAN OR HE COULD ACT AS GOD.

    I fail to see how the title of EVERLASTING FATHER, or THE FATHER of ETERNITY could possibly be given to one, unless HE WAS THE FATHER OF ETERNITY! You can attempt to change the Scripture as much as you like, but it will still say the same thing. In case you're wondering, the defence of the deity of Jesus Christ does not, and never will, rest on the word 'a'. It uses the whole Scripture, and does not have to painfully drawn out because that is what God has been trying to tell us since he came to Earth in a body of flesh.

    While you have continued to peg away at undermining Jesus' supreme deity, you have failed to answer these critical questions. If you can answer them, I will change what I believe, because you can't answer them.

    HOW could Jesus forgive sin unless he was God (Mar_2:7)?

    HOW come John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit described Jesus as the Almighty (Rev. I:8)? He wasn't just mighty, he was the ALL MIGHTY!

    HOW is it that the name of the Father IS Jesus (Joh_5:43)? If the Father's name is Jesus, doesn't it stand to reason that Jesus is God?

    HOW is it that all throughout the New Testament Jesus is described as Lord (1Co_1:8)? And how is it that the exact same word is used with God (Mar_12:29)?
     
  8. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    That Jesus does not have a "dual personality", of being both God and man at the same time, is seen that the apostle Paul wrote that "there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, "(1 Tim 2:5) This is an irrevocable statement. Paul further wrote to the Philippians, that Jesus was "although he was existing in God’s form (as a spirit son of God), gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men."(Phil 2:6, 7) Paul adds: "More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake."(Phil 2:8)

    Thus, Paul confirms that Jesus became a "man" of flesh and blood, that could be put to death. On the other hand, God cannot die, for Hababbak wrote: "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die."(Hab 1:12) The apostle Peter told the Jews, that "this Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses."(Acts 2:32) He further told them that "you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses."(Acts 3:15) Hence, while on the earth, Jesus was a man that could die and not a demigod.

    Jesus is given the title of "Everlasting Father", because he has been granted the authority by his Father, Jehovah God, to resurrect "all those in the memorial tombs". (John 5:28) Hence, he becomes their "Everlasting Father" by giving them life again through a resurrection from the dead. Those who mold their personality to conform to God's, can then live forever and so Jesus has become their "Everlasting Father".(Eph 4:24; Ps 37:29) The title "King of Eternity" at 1 Timothy 1:17 (and Revelation 15:3), is applied only to God, not Jesus, for Paul wrote: "Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, [the] only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."

    (1) You ask "How could Jesus forgive sin unless he was God" ? Simply put, had you looked more closely at Mark 2, you could have of seen that Jesus said to the Jewish religious leaders, who felt the same way you do, by saying in their hearts: "Why is this man talking in this manner? He is blaspheming. Who can forgive sins except one, God?” (Mark 2:7) Had Jesus been God, he would have not disagreed with them, would he ? Would Jesus have found fault with their reasoning if it was "in line with truth" ?(Mark 12:14) Because their reasoning was faulty, really wicked, Jesus now tells them: "But in order for you men to know that the Son of man has authority ("authority" Greek exousia, meaning "delegated influence") to forgive sins upon the earth,”—he said to the paralytic: “I say to you, Get up, pick up your cot, and go to your home.”(Mark 2:10) Thence, Jesus was granted or was delegated "authority" by his heavenly Father to forgive sins and heal people.

    (2) You ask "How come John, under the inspiration of the holy spirit described Jesus as the Almighty God (Rev 1:8)? He wasn't just mighty, he was the All Mighty ?" At Revelation 1:8, Jesus is not the one speaking. Again had you examine this more closely, Revelation 1:8 does not just say: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty"(King James Bible), but it says more accurately: "I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”(New World Translation)

    The online interlinear Scripture4all reads literally "Master the God" or "kyrios ho theos" not just "kyrios" or "Lord". The Emphatic Diaglott reads: "the Lord God". This text has been tampered with, as has so many others, supplanting or removing God's name of Jehovah. Revelation 4:8 says that the "four living creatures" gives praise to God, saying: "Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is coming.” Hence, Jehovah is Almighty, not Jesus. Jesus is called "Mighty God"(Hebrew, ’El Gib·bohr´ ), not "Almighty God" (Hebrew ’El Shad·dai´ ) at Isaiah 9:6. Had Jesus been "Almighty God", Isaiah would have written "Almighty God" or ’El Shad·dai´. Instead he wrote "Mighty God", ’El Gib·bohr´.

    (3) You ask "How is that the name of the Father IS Jesus (John 5:43) If the Father's name is Jesus, doesn't it stand to reason that Jesus is God ?" First, John 5:43 does not say that "the name of the Father IS Jesus", but that Jesus said: "I have come in the name of my Father, but you do not receive me; if someone else arrived in his own name, you would receive that one."(New World Translation) What does it mean to come in someone's name ? What does it mean when the police say: "Stop in the name of the law " ? Are the police named "law" or are they telling the criminal to stop by "authority" of the law ? When the tribe of Levi was told that "he must also minister in the name of Jehovah his God the same as all his brothers, the Levites, who are standing there before Jehovah", what was meant ?

    Simply that this tribe was given authority by Jehovah God to minister in behalf of the nation of Israel, representing God before the nation. Hence, Jesus came to the earth as God's representative, just as the tribe of Levi represented God for the Israelites. That is why Jesus said to the Jews: "You both know me and know where I am from. Also, I have not come of my own initiative, but he that sent me is real, and you do not know him. I know him, because I am a representative from him, and that One sent me forth.”("representative", Greek apostello, meaning "to send out on a mission", John 7:28, 29)

    (4) You ask "How is it that all throughout the New Testament Jesus is described as Lord (1 Cor 1:8) ? And how is it that the exact same word is used with God (Mark 12:29) ?" The word "Lord" literally means "sir", "owner" or "master" and can be applied to just about anyone, for Abraham was called "Lord" by Sarah.(Gen 18:12) The sons of Heth called Abraham "Lord".(Gen 23:6, 11) Rebekah called Abraham's servant, Eliezer, "lord".(Gen 24:18) And Rachael called her father "lord".(Gen 31:35)

    The term "lord" is used in the Bible almost 1200 times and is often used as an expression of humility, as in the case of Hannah when before high priest Eli (1 Sam 1:15, 26), or of Abigail when before David.(1 Sam 25:24) Hence, the word "lord" is used throughout the Bible for a whole host of different ones, not just of God. It need be noted that at Mark 12:29, the word "lord" is not found in the original Greek manuscript, but rather reads: "Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah", for Jesus was quoting from Deuteronomy 6:4.
     
  9. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    Mate, there is no point in continuing this conversation. I have ALREADY proved how all these verses will fit into place. The key is the dual personality of Christ; however, since you won't even entertain the idea, then OF COURSE you will continue to see Jesus as JUST A MAN. You have answered all four questions, but they are far from conclusive. I couldn't be bothered putting any more up, since it is clear that you are not interested. I have no desire to continue this conversation. I know that I stand on Scripture, and there are many who do. Whether you do, I think you know.



    Jesus, the Lord of Lords, and the King of kings.
     
  10. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    All heresy is grounded in the distortion of the true Nature of God as Trinity
     
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