Who Is Jesus?

[Duckybill]

Jesus is the Messiah, the Savior.. God's Son sent to reconcile us to him, and atone for our sins, he is Lord.

And He is God.

John 20:28-29 (NKJV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And Thomas answered and said to Him, "MY LORD AND MY GOD!" [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

 

[Job one]

Hello Neon... Will try to be brief...

"And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none." - Ezekiel 22:30

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. " -Luke 12:4-5

The Father is one tough customer. Read the book of Exodus. It is almost as though the creator had no understandings of his creation. There were times that Moses was the only man between God and the elimination of Israel. Notice that the Lord Jesus re-emphasized the need to fear the Father.

E = mc[sup]2[/sup] ... or .... m = E / c[sup]2[/sup]

There is a spiritual energy (warmth and motivation) and light (faith, hope, and charity).

And the opposite is also true... There is a spiritual nothing (coldness and laziness) and darkness (fear, depression, hate).

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5

God the Father is pure light and energy. And in reading the bible through he has a tough time out of we humans when we stoop down to dark things., thus the need for Jesus...

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." -John 14:6

Jesus Christ is the hedge between us and God. We can call on God the Father in the name of Jesus and God will give our prayer requests audience. Which is why satan works so hard trying to eliminate using the name of Jesus... Our only was to the Heavenly Father.

I believe that God the Father revealed his son Jesus to Abraham many years ago. When Abraham was looking afar off in the land of Moriah (Genesis 22:4) I believe that God Abraham saw the sacrifice that God was going to have to make in sending his son Jesus on the cross. In inventorying my own life I see a life riddled with faults and mistakes. It is a pleasure for me to go to the Father in prayer and in the name of Jesus.

I was a little amused at your reference as to the Father being "one tough customer", who "had no understanding of His creations".

Perhaps it would be well to study Exodus more carefully. You should realize that the great Jehovah who gave the "law" to Moses was none other than Jesus Christ. So what you are really saying is that Jesus Christ is "one tough customer".

As for me, I fully believe Jehovah had a full understanding of all His creations.

If one is not wiling to come up to obedience to the "law", given at the time of Moses, how can one expect to measure up to the higher laws given by Christ while He dwelt with us in the flesh?

 

[Duckybill]

Revelation 2:18-23 (NKJV)
[sup]18 [/sup]"And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things SAYS THE SON OF GOD, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: [sup]19 [/sup]I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. [sup]20 [/sup]Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. [sup]21 [/sup]And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. [sup]22 [/sup]Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. [sup]23 [/sup]I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I AM HE WHO SEARCHES THE MINDS AND HEARTS. AND I WILL GIVE TO EACH ONE OF YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR WORKS.

Yep, Jesus is God Almighty.

 

[horsecamp]

Who is Jesus to you? How do you apply this to your spirituality?
[/quote]

Jesus - Mary Did You Know Video - The Passion

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePointofGrace#p/f/5/IfpK6cNPF7Y


How do you apply this to your spirituality?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le2OhcUJRGc&feature=related

 

[veteran]

John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto Him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"

58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

59 Then took they up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)


Jesus admitted that He is God in that example. The "I Am" is one of God's sacred Names. That's why those Jews took up stones to try and kill Him. He said the following to them just before that...

John 8:43-47
43 Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth Me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe Me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
(KJV)


For those who want to deny their Salvation, go ahead, refuse to believe that Jesus of Nazareth was not The Christ and not Immanuel God come in the flesh.


For those who do believe Jesus is The Christ, God come in the flesh, born of a virgin, there's something you should know about the devil's servants who refuse to believe Jesus is God come in the flesh...

One of the pagan ideas Satan's servants push, is the idea that we EACH can do our OWN Salvation, without Christ. That's an idea that the occultists believe. If they have to admit Jesus existed, which most of them do, they are forced to delegate Him as only a flesh born prophet like one of the Old Testament prophets, and nothing more. The reason is because that's the only way they can still push the falsehood of becoming your own god. It's the same lie the serpent pushed in God's Garden of Eden to Adam and Eve.

The occultists equate our Lord Jesus with the prophets of other religions, like Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Mohamed, etc. The New Age system believes there is a Force in the spiritual world that we each can commune and attune our psychic self to and become exactly like Christ, and do the miracles He did. They believe all that is about learning natural laws governing the psychic realm. They believe that our Lord Jesus Himself attuned to that spiritual Force to become Christ. They believe our Lord Jesus was one of 'them', even trained by them. That's where the crazy ideas come from about Jesus' missing 18 years in The Bible with traveling to the Far East, Egypt, Greece, etc., and being initiated into 'their' mysteries.


Our Heavenly Father actually warned us about that kind of belief, in Daniel 11...

Dan 11:38-39
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
(KJV)


This is why the fraternities of initiation push the lie that all religions are equal paths to the same God. To do that with Christianity, they must try to degrade our Lord Jesus down from God status, to just a flesh prophet status.

Those false ideas that our Lord Jesus was one of 'them', and trained by 'them', and initiated by 'them', in order to fulfill His Mission as The Christ, is nothing but a lie from Satan, the same lie he pushed in God's Garden. It especially goes back to Satan's sin that he did in first rebelling against God, in coveting God's Throne for himself (which is why those occultists really hate it when that is exposed from Scripture).

That is also where the idea that we can become "Christ-like" comes from being pushed in some Christian Churches today. We may follow our Lord Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit may do some works through us like His Apostles did, BUT we are never going to be 'Christ'. There can only ever be but One Christ, One Lord, and Satan hates that because he wants that position of Christ The Saviour. This is why eastern religions are in such great deception, because throughout history they have been fed the lie that they have the opportunity to achieve their own Salvation by attuning to the Divine to reach perfection and be freed from the wheel of rebirth. Many of those have yet to realize that only One can be born a flesh man and be Perfect, without sin. Only God can do that, and only God can be The Saviour.

So if Jesus The Christ is not God The Saviour, then it would suggest that we EACH can become our OWN Saviour, and that we don't need Him. That's the danger of not believing that Jesus The Christ is God.

There is only One Ultimate Authority in the universe. And That is The LORD GOD, God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit. And They are ONE.

 

[Guestman]

That's right. Except that... Jesus didn't die in the sense this is speaking of.


Except the problem is that, those verses don't say Jesus died.

It simply says he gave up his breath, or gave up his spirit. You'll then note the only thing that died in any sense was his body and his spirit went to "paradise" (see Luke 23:43) for three days.

What irrationalization ! What distorted reasoning ! How can you call yourself a "Christian" and yet say that Jesus did not die. Had Jesus not died, then as Paul said, those that are Christians, "are of all men most to be pitied."(1 Cor 15:19), for the ransom would have not been provided, and if that were the case, there is no hope of living forever, no "new covenant" was instituted with Jesus blood.(Luke 22:20)

However, Jesus did die, for the apostle Paul wrote that "if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again" at 1 Thessalonians 4:14. Furthermore, Paul said: "For to this end Christ died and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living."(Rom 14:9)

The apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death]."(1 Cor 15:20) In addition, Paul after having spoke of a physical body being replaced by a spiritual one upon death, he then says that "the last Adam became a life-giving spirit."(1 Cor 15:45) Had Jesus not died, then he could not have become "a life-giving spirit" and then presented his life blood to the Father in heaven.(Heb 9:24)

 

[veteran]

What irrationalization ! What distorted reasoning ! How can you call yourself a "Christian" and yet say that Jesus did not die. Had Jesus not died, then as Paul said, those that are Christians, "are of all men most to be pitied."(1 Cor 15:19), for the ransom would have not been provided, and if that were the case, there is no hope of living forever, no "new covenant" was instituted with Jesus blood.(Luke 22:20)

However, Jesus did die, for the apostle Paul wrote that "if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again" at 1 Thessalonians 4:14. Furthermore, Paul said: "For to this end Christ died and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living."(Rom 14:9)

The apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death]."(1 Cor 15:20) In addition, Paul after having spoke of a physical body being replaced by a spiritual one upon death, he then says that "the last Adam became a life-giving spirit."(1 Cor 15:45) Had Jesus not died, then he could not have become "a life-giving spirit" and then presented his life blood to the Father in heaven.(Heb 9:24)

Christ's flesh died, but Christ Himself did not...

1 Pet 3:18-22
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto Him.
(KJV)

 

[Guestman]

Christ's flesh died, but Christ Himself did not...

1 Pet 3:18-22
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto Him.
(KJV)

That Jesus Christ died is irrevocable. What you are saying is that the apostle Paul is a liar, that he nor the apostle Matthew nor the physician Luke told the truth, though inspired of God. Jesus had to die as a human, giving his life in order to redeem those who "exercise faith" in him.(John 3:16; Matt 20:28) You are calling God (and Jesus) a liar, for he inspired not only Paul, Matthew, and Luke, to say that Jesus died, but also the prophet Isaiah, for he wrote under inspiration: "For that reason I shall deal him a portion among the many, and it will be with the mighty ones that he will apportion the spoil, due to the fact that he poured out his soul to the very death."(Isa 53:12)

Hours before his death, Jesus himself said: "My soul is deeply grieved, even to death."(Matt 26:38) Jesus also said to his apostles that "the Son of man must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by the older men and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and rise three days later."(Mark 8:31)

The apostle Paul wrote to the Hebrews concerning Jesus, that "that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil."(Heb 2:14) Death is the end of life completely. Only through a resurrection ("resurrection", Greek a·na´sta·sis literally meaning “raising up; standing up" to life again) can a person become alive again after having died. Peter told the assembled Jews in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost: "This Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses."(Acts 2:32)

It is no wonder that the Bible is a closed book to so many, who distort it's words rather than recognizing what is true, allowing the Bible to speak for itself, instead of trying to place "a square peg in a round hole." Jesus condemned the religious leaders of his day for twisting God's word, telling them concerning what is "corban": "Why is it you also overstep the commandment of God because of your tradition? For example, God said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Let him that reviles father or mother end up in death.’ "

However Jesus now criticizes them, saying: "But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother: “Whatever I have by which you might get benefit from me is a gift dedicated to God (or "corban", Mark 7:11),” he must not honor his father at all.’ And so you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you, when he said, ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 15:3-9)

Thus, there has been a distorting of the Bible, in order to continue teaching "commands of men as doctrine." Just as Jesus condemned the religious leaders so likewise are ones to be found guilty of twisting the Bible for the purpose of promoting such false religious doctrines as the trinity, hellfire, immortality of the soul, that all good people go to heaven, the the earth is to be burned up. Unlike Joshua, who "did not remove a word from all that Jehovah had commanded Moses" regarding Hazor and the surrounding cities (Jos 11:15), many have taken out words or added or changed them, misrepresenting what the Bible really teaches.

 

[Thankful 1]

Hello there! Well its the main reason why I logged on todday, Its something thats been hammering at the back of my mind, that I dont really understand, that I dont really associate him with my troubles or joys , that I dont view him the same way as I view God or the holy spirit. There's something not right with that, since I call myself a Christian and I feel I am a Christian.

There are so many names, the Lord, the Messiah, the Son. He is all those and more? He is God's only begotten son? What does begotten really mean in that context? After all arent I his child?

I view God, as God and most definitely to myself ,a Father. Maybe thats where im getting baffled, because im human , and so fixated with the whole Father concept. So who is? Jesus is God?Saying that confuses me. Jesus is my Saviour? Yes i believe he died on the cross for us. I accept that, but im sure that not all there is to it,is it? I pray to God and only to God so very openly, i've never done anything else. What am I supposed to do with my belief in Jesus?Im not processing something, please help to simply this.

Who is Jesus to you? How do you apply this to your spirituality?

Jesus is God. He is one with the Father. All honor and glory belongs to Jesus.

 

[KingdomCome]

What does the following mean?

1Cor 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Thankful 1]

What does the following mean?

1Cor 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

When I was first into Jesus’ ministry he told me audibly: stop trying to figure me out, and just follow him. Jesus also told me he is God.



Another time Jesus told me that I would be one with Him and then we would be one with the Father. That is as big a mystery to my mind as how could it be that anything can have no beginning. My mind is way to limited to be able to understand God and his ways.



Jesus told us he is God. That is good enough for me. It is Jesus that I am following, and what he said and says goes.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

If God was alone before creation, then there wouldn't be relationship or family in creation. We don't find much singularity in the universe. When man was created, he was perfect, except that he was alone, and so God gave him a partner. What about God's character caused Him to do this? All creation stems from God and all creation testifies to the character of God unless and until it is perverted by sin. The fact that relationship (more than one) exists in the universe God created, proves that relationship (more than one) existed before all creation. Anything/anyone that always was and always is, is God; anything that is not God, is created. Can God create something foreign to His character? That just doesn't make sense. The fact that God is, means everything he does is according to Himself... because that's who he is.

I guess we can argue who God the father had relationship with before creation that would comprise Himself. There are only two others that have been revealed to us, Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. These three always were and always will be.

 

[Duckybill]

Jesus is God.

Now that's a fact!

John 1 The Word was with God ... The Word was God ... The Word became flesh ...

 

[KingdomCome]

What does the following mean?

1Cor 15:
28 ...then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Thanks to all for your comments — however, I simply asked what the above means in context — I make no inferences.

Blessings to you all...

 

[martinlawrencescott]

I think it talks about the order God means to establish by setting the Father as ruler over everything, and Jesus being placed in submission to God the Father and everything else in submission to the father through Christ. I think it means that when we submit to Christ, we are submitting to the father, for Christ is our Lord, yet even He submits Himself to the Father. I think by subdued it means that we can either give up our rights willingly or they will inevitably be taken by force and everyone in the end will be under submission to God through the Son.

 

[veteran]

That Jesus Christ died is irrevocable. What you are saying is that the apostle Paul is a liar, that he nor the apostle Matthew nor the physician Luke told the truth, though inspired of God. Jesus had to die as a human, giving his life in order to redeem those who "exercise faith" in him.(John 3:16; Matt 20:28) You are calling God (and Jesus) a liar, for he inspired not only Paul, Matthew, and Luke, to say that Jesus died, but also the prophet Isaiah, for he wrote under inspiration: "For that reason I shall deal him a portion among the many, and it will be with the mighty ones that he will apportion the spoil, due to the fact that he poured out his soul to the very death."(Isa 53:12)

I'm not the one calling God and His servants liars, you're doing a good job of that by denying Jesus as THE CHRIST, IMMANUEL (GOD with us).

And just how is it that you're doing that? By trying to show how GOD could be KILLED!!! The devil's gotta' love that one.

It was Christ's FLESH that died on the cross which Peter was referring to, not Christ as Immanuel God with us, for He is GOD THE SAVIOUR as written in the Book of Isaiah! Further proof of that by Peter was how he said Christ's Spirit was quickened by Which He also went to the spirits in prison (the pit of hell), and preached to them.


John 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.
(KJV)

---------------------------------------------------------------------



A little lesson for those not versed in Jewish mysticism like the Pharisees that loved glorifying the flesh body, wrongly thinking that's all there is to the way God created us...

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(KJV)

Even when our flesh body dies, our spirit continues!!! It DOES NOT DIE.


But the blinded unbelieving Jews didn't understand that, nor this either...

Luke 20:37-38
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For He is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto Him.
(KJV)

Nor this...

Eccl 12:6-7
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it.
(KJV)

That "silver cord" is what keeps our spirit joined with our flesh body while we're living in our flesh body. When it is severed, those two parts go to their assigned place, the flesh back to the earthly elements of matter, and our spirit back to God. We are done with a flesh body at that point, for ever. The ONLY death remaining after that is death of our spirit and soul in the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's thousand years reign. And that can only happen if we refuse to accept Jesus as The Christ, God The Saviour, Immanuel God with us, Who died in His flesh on the cross for us, but with His Spirit continuing. THAT is how only Jesus The Christ could offer us Everlasting Life, because He is The Everlasting Father as written in Isaiah 9:6.


And definitely not this...

2 Cor 5:1-4
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
(KJV)


When our flesh body dies, it goes back to the earthly elements where it came from. Our flesh is not the REAL part of our being from God. This flesh world is not our true Home. When we die, we are not waiting it out in a dug hole in the ground. Our spirit goes BACK TO GOD WHO GAVE IT. That means life AFTER flesh death folks!!

This is why our Lord Jesus gave the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16. Both Lazarus and the rich man's flesh died and was buried (sent back to the elements), but Lazarus's spirit was carried to the bosom of Abraham, while the rich man found himself in hell, across a great fixed gulf border from where Lazarus was.

The "spirits in prison" which Jesus preached to were in that same place as the "rich man" of Luke 16. It was prophecy in Isaiah that Christ would lead those who believed on Him out of the darkness of that pit prison.

 

[Duckybill]

I'm not the one calling God and His servants liars, you're doing a good job of that by denying Jesus as THE CHRIST, IMMANUEL (GOD with us).

Those who deny Jesus/God clearly have a different savior than you and I. There's gonna be a LOT of terribly disappointed 'Christians' on Judgment Day or before. What I find interesting is that most who deny Jesus/God also deny eternal punishment. Satan is busy.

 

[veteran]

What does the following mean?

1Cor 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

It's in relation to Christ's future thousand years reign. And then the end after it with the great white throne judgment.

The "thousand years" by Christ of Rev.20 is the time when He will put all His enemies under His feet. All the wicked will bow to Christ Jesus in that time.

Then after that thousand years, Satan will be loosed to lead the wicked who still refuse Christ upon the holy city, and The Father will send a destruction upon them, casting the devil into the lake of fire. Then the Judgment, and whoever's name is not found in the Book of Life is also cast into the lake of fire, along with the abode of hell and death. That is the "second death". After that, there will be no more death, ever.

And then the fulll Godhead will return to this earth, upon Mount Zion in Jerusalem. God's Role as Saviour will be finished. And of course that means His express Image will still be the Image of Jesus (Hebrews 1:3).

 

[Guestman]

I'm not the one calling God and His servants liars, you're doing a good job of that by denying Jesus as THE CHRIST, IMMANUEL (GOD with us).

And just how is it that you're doing that? By trying to show how GOD could be KILLED!!! The devil's gotta' love that one.

It was Christ's FLESH that died on the cross which Peter was referring to, not Christ as Immanuel God with us, for He is GOD THE SAVIOUR as written in the Book of Isaiah! Further proof of that by Peter was how he said Christ's Spirit was quickened by Which He also went to the spirits in prison (the pit of hell), and preached to them.


John 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.
(KJV)

---------------------------------------------------------------------



A little lesson for those not versed in Jewish mysticism like the Pharisees that loved glorifying the flesh body, wrongly thinking that's all there is to the way God created us...

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(KJV)

Even when our flesh body dies, our spirit continues!!! It DOES NOT DIE.


But the blinded unbelieving Jews didn't understand that, nor this either...

Luke 20:37-38
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For He is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto Him.
(KJV)

Nor this...

Eccl 12:6-7
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it.
(KJV)

That "silver cord" is what keeps our spirit joined with our flesh body while we're living in our flesh body. When it is severed, those two parts go to their assigned place, the flesh back to the earthly elements of matter, and our spirit back to God. We are done with a flesh body at that point, for ever. The ONLY death remaining after that is death of our spirit and soul in the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's thousand years reign. And that can only happen if we refuse to accept Jesus as The Christ, God The Saviour, Immanuel God with us, Who died in His flesh on the cross for us, but with His Spirit continuing. THAT is how only Jesus The Christ could offer us Everlasting Life, because He is The Everlasting Father as written in Isaiah 9:6.


And definitely not this...

2 Cor 5:1-4
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
(KJV)


When our flesh body dies, it goes back to the earthly elements where it came from. Our flesh is not the REAL part of our being from God. This flesh world is not our true Home. When we die, we are not waiting it out in a dug hole in the ground. Our spirit goes BACK TO GOD WHO GAVE IT. That means life AFTER flesh death folks!!

This is why our Lord Jesus gave the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16. Both Lazarus and the rich man's flesh died and was buried (sent back to the elements), but Lazarus's spirit was carried to the bosom of Abraham, while the rich man found himself in hell, across a great fixed gulf border from where Lazarus was.

The "spirits in prison" which Jesus preached to were in that same place as the "rich man" of Luke 16. It was prophecy in Isaiah that Christ would lead those who believed on Him out of the darkness of that pit prison.

In saying that only "Christ's flesh" died, you have yielded to the false belief that something exists apart from the body, such as the soul being immortal, which was taught by Greek philosopher Plato and later absorbed into so-called "Christianity". You have discarded what Isaiah prophetically wrote concerning Jesus that "hath poured out his soul unto death."(Isa 53:12, King James Bible) Or that the spirit is something that lives on after death.

The Bible does not teach that anything exists apart from the body upon death. Jesus was born completely human, for he called himself "the Son of man."(Matt 8:20; 9:6) In addition, the apostle Paul wrote: "It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."(1 Cor 15:45) Thus, Jesus was equal to Adam as a perfect human, that breathed and died.

And of the name Immanuel (With Us is God) that was prophectically given to Jesus, who was the person named Immanuel in the 8th century before Christ at Isaiah 7:14 ? Also, please explain who Ithiel was at Nehemiah 11:7, which means "With Me is God" ? Was God with Ithiel ? You are trying to promote the trinitarian doctrine that Jesus is God, of which he is not, for he himself said that to Mary: "I am ascending to my God and your God."(John 20:17)

You are among a whole host of people that have not developed the ability to reason effectively based on the evidence, allowing a prejudicial viewpoint to dominate. You accept what the churches have taught for almost 1700 years, despite the scriptural evidence to the contrary. When the Bible says that "Jesus died", you say, hmmm, that does not mean really that he died, only his "flesh". This is no different than Nestorius, an early 5th-century patriarch of Constantinople, who apparently taught that Christ was actually two persons in one, the human Jesus and the divine Son of God. In giving birth to Christ, Mary gave birth to the man but not to the divine Son. So, you reason that the man Jesus died, but not the divine Son.

Jesus said that "just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.”(Matt 20:28) Thus, Jesus gave his "soul" or life as a person, in order to provide "a ransom in exchange for many." This exchange of Jesus life, whereby he died and was non-existent for parts of 3 days (Matt 12:40), is for those who would become obedient. The death of Jesus was required by God. Otherwise, as the apostle Paul said of genuine Christians: "If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied."(1 Cor 15:19)

Of our spirit, you say that it continues upon death. First, what is the spirit, another person within us that lives on ? Let's see. The Encarta Dictionary says: "1. life force of individual: a vital force that characterizes a living being as being alive."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) What does the Bible teach ? The word spirit comes from the Greek word pneu´ma and Hebrew ru´ach, that basically means "breath." Is our breath something that lives on after death ? These Greek and Hebrew words are also be rendered as wind at Genesis 8:1 and John 3:8. Is the wind something that has life ?

At Proverbs 15:13, it says: "A joyful heart has a good effect on the countenance, but because of the pain of the heart there is a stricken spirit." Is the spirit here something separate from the body ? Another definition for spirit is "2. will: somebody’s will, sense of self, or enthusiasm for living."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) Is somebody's will to live something separate from the body, that lives on after death ? Hence, the different meanings of spirit can be wind (John 3:8, Gen 8:1); the vital force in living creatures (Gen 6:17); one’s spirit as at Genesis 41:8 concerning Pharaoh and 45:27 concerning Jacob; spirit persons, including God and his angelic creatures as at 2 Chronicles 18:20; and God’s active force, or holy spirit, as at Genesis 1:2. All these meanings have something in common: They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. Such invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.

Thus, when Matthew recorded that after "Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and yielded up [his] spirit" at Matthew 27:50, Jesus lost his impersonal life force that animates all of us, like electricity that operates a fan or refrigerator or any electrical item. For example, unplug the power cord of any fan from it's power source and the fan dies. Psalms 104:29 says: "If you take away their spirit, they expire, and back to their dust they go." Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that upon death: "Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the [true] God who gave it."

Hence, a person dies, and all hope of living again is in the hands of God. Jesus thus died, "pour(ing) out his soul to the very death."(Isa 53:12) He was now non-existent, being only in God's memory, so that after three days in the grave (Matt 12:40), he was resurrected ("resurrection", Greek a·na´sta·sis, literally meaning “raising up; standing up") to life again, receiving his spirit or life force back from God.

 

[veteran]

In saying that only "Christ's flesh" died, you have yielded to the false belief that something exists apart from the body, such as the soul being immortal, which was taught by Greek philosopher Plato and later absorbed into so-called "Christianity". You have discarded what Isaiah prophetically wrote concerning Jesus that "hath poured out his soul unto death."(Isa 53:12, King James Bible) Or that the spirit is something that lives on after death.

The Scripture examples I gave is solid proof that God created us also flesh, meaning, we have a spirit part too. Our spirit is mortal unless it puts on immortality like Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. So there is such a thing as immortality in God's Word, and it especially applies to the Nature of The Father and The Son as everlasting. The Father made all things through The Son, which should be enough proof for a believer that Christ is God, and everlasting too. It proves that Christ existed prior to being born flesh, and could exist as Spirit without the need of a flesh body.

In Matthew 22:30, Christ compared those of the resurrection being "as the angels of God in heaven." The angels don't have the "image of the earthly" flesh body like those of us born in the flesh. The angelic state is the "image of the heavenly" state Paul spoke of in the resurrection, per 1 Cor.15.

But the blind Sadduccees refused to believe the resurrection of the dead in Paul's days, just as they still do today. That's the basis of the doctrine that man is flesh only.