Who is the Antichrist? Let's Put a Name on Him.

[Reggie Belafonte]

Angels are messengers, are they not ? some are of God and some are in rebellion, false regarding God.

 

[Naomi25]

The thing to distinguish is that the Holy Spirit binds the anti-Christ and plunders his goods, Christ then kills the anti-Christ at Armageddon.

You can skip to Armageddon if you want, but if you do that on Earth, you will be hit with a snare - only the Holy Spirit has a way out of Earth.

Many will try to distinguish between the anti-Christ and the Holy Spirit and will not be able.

I'm terribly sorry, but I'm not sure I follow any of that.

Did we need, specifically, to bring the Holy Spirit into the conversation? Undoubtably he is there, as he is everywhere, I'm not saying otherwise, but he was in no way pertinent to the point I was attempting to make. Or so I thought.
I don't doubt there is a huge conversation to be had, detail wise, over what happens just prior to Christ's return. Such a conversation would, I suppose, involve Armageddon. But again, that was not part of the point I was trying to make.
"Only the Holy Spirit has a way out of Earth". Are you talking about, like, death? And in that case, isn't it God...working together in the Trinity, who offers us our 'out'?
"Many will try to distinguish between the anti-Christ and the Holy Spirit and will not be able". Except...the bible promises us that if we are in Christ, he will not be able to deceive us. 'to lead astray, if possible, the elect.' The implication being...it will not be possible. We are safe in Christ, thanks to the Holy Spirit within us. So again, I'm afraid I'm not sure where you're going with this.

 

[Naomi25]

i love simple Truth from God's word, and for our benefit, He will repeat important elements whereby it becomes easy to identify.

Daniel 7:11 - Then I kept watching because of the arrogant words the horn was speaking. As I continued to watch, the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.

2 Thess 2:8 - And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

Revelation 19:19 - Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Pretty straight forward = World Leader(s) in opposition to God, they have a time of authority on earth but are defeated at the Second Coming of Christ. Not everyone is killed.
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Hold up! Straight forward, yes. Absolutely. Nicely laid out even, so well done.
The huge problem you have here, is your conclusion.
You lay out all the verses that corroborate how the beast is killed and thrown into the lake of fire. And then sum it up by saying "see, not everyone is killed!"
Really? Where does it say that? Ummm. It doesn't. At all.
In point of fact, it conspicuously stays silent...in these verses...as to what happens to the 'armies' gathered with the beast to wage war against Christ.
You, I'm afraid, have leapt to a conclusion.
What you ought to do, is search through scripture to find what it tells us happens to people at Christ's return. And, as I've been saying, it DOES tell us what happens. People are judged. Into either eternal damnation, or eternal righteousness with Christ.

Daniel 7:21 - As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and prevailing against them,
v25 - He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High

Matthew 24:9 - Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

Revelation 13: 5-7 The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months. 6And the beast opened its mouth to speak blasphemies against God and to slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven.
Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them,
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Again...we see corroborative accounts of the beast warring against the saints...but nothing to suggest that after his demise, there will be people left alive after judgement.

Daniel 7:26-27 - But the court will convene, and his dominion will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him.’

Matthew 24: 30 - At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Revelation 1:7-8 - Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty.

Revelation 2:26 - And to the one who overcomes and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations.
He will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like pottery - just as I have received authority from My Father.

Revelation 5:10 - Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Okay, I see where you're trying to go here, and I've addressed it before.
Your problem is this: you have not, and I content, cannot, prove that when the saints take...or more rightly, are given...dominion over the kingdom and shall reign over it, it needs must be a fallen world. Vastly improved than this one by Christ's kingship, but still, not the new heavens and earth.
If indeed other scriptures found in the NT are correct in pointing to Christ's return as THE day, the day when all are judged into their eternal dwelling places and given their eternal bodies to endure it. And indeed the cosmos, which includes both heaven and earth are made new at the same day (2 Pet 3:10), then the kingdom that the saints have been given dominion over is the eternal one. And that means that there is no one left who has natural bodies.

Once again, to be clear: there are many, obvious verses that state, outright, that these things will be, at Christ's return. The judgement of all, just and unjust, the giving of new bodies, both living and dead, the renewing of the cosmos. And in the face of those clear passages, you seem to have provided the above; verses that can easily be read as a physical reign and dominion upon the earth in renewed bodies, under the shepherding of our glorious king Jesus.

Interject and Review 1 Thess 4:13-18 here and then LOOK n SEE below

Revelation 20:4-5 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This is just a brief but simple and direct LOOK n SEE from the Lord Jesus Christ so that we know and have confidence in Him.

Peace

Not sure of your point here, sorry.

 

[Gottservant]

Ah, please demonstrate your claim that you are actually God's friend as what you post does not, IMHO, line up with the word of God at all and is misleading to say the least.

I believe in who God sent, in a friendly way, to do the works of the truth as is my duty.

Nothing lines up with scripture you don't even quote?

 

[Gottservant]

I'm terribly sorry, but I'm not sure I follow any of that.
[...]. So again, I'm afraid I'm not sure where you're going with this.

I'm just saying you need to punctuate your expectations of the future, with the reference to the relationship you want to learn about.

Jesus does not "bind the anti-Christ", if you are waiting for Him to do that, you will be cast into outer darkness.

The Holy Spirit does not "kill the anti-Christ", if you are waiting for Him to do that, you will be bitterly disappointed.

 

[David in NJ]

Hold up! Straight forward, yes. Absolutely. Nicely laid out even, so well done.
The huge problem you have here, is your conclusion.
You lay out all the verses that corroborate how the beast is killed and thrown into the lake of fire. And then sum it up by saying "see, not everyone is killed!"
Really? Where does it say that? Ummm. It doesn't. At all.
In point of fact, it conspicuously stays silent...in these verses...as to what happens to the 'armies' gathered with the beast to wage war against Christ.
You, I'm afraid, have leapt to a conclusion.
What you ought to do, is search through scripture to find what it tells us happens to people at Christ's return. And, as I've been saying, it DOES tell us what happens. People are judged. Into either eternal damnation, or eternal righteousness with Christ.



Again...we see corroborative accounts of the beast warring against the saints...but nothing to suggest that after his demise, there will be people left alive after judgement.


Okay, I see where you're trying to go here, and I've addressed it before.
Your problem is this: you have not, and I content, cannot, prove that when the saints take...or more rightly, are given...dominion over the kingdom and shall reign over it, it needs must be a fallen world. Vastly improved than this one by Christ's kingship, but still, not the new heavens and earth.
If indeed other scriptures found in the NT are correct in pointing to Christ's return as THE day, the day when all are judged into their eternal dwelling places and given their eternal bodies to endure it. And indeed the cosmos, which includes both heaven and earth are made new at the same day (2 Pet 3:10), then the kingdom that the saints have been given dominion over is the eternal one. And that means that there is no one left who has natural bodies.

Once again, to be clear: there are many, obvious verses that state, outright, that these things will be, at Christ's return. The judgement of all, just and unjust, the giving of new bodies, both living and dead, the renewing of the cosmos. And in the face of those clear passages, you seem to have provided the above; verses that can easily be read as a physical reign and dominion upon the earth in renewed bodies, under the shepherding of our glorious king Jesus.


Not sure of your point here, sorry.

You have me cracking up here but i loved your response.

Take your time with that post and the verses as they speak for themself and are loaded with info.
Peace

 

[Naomi25]

I have addressed such passages, none state that all humans are killed at the second coming.

You may have addressed these passages, but I have not seen your attempt.
But if your rebuttal is that none of them mention that all humans are killed at the second coming, then I confess I'm disappointed.
I've never claimed that all humans are killed at Christ's return. I've said that they are JUDGED. I think you'll find that if you read the passages again, you'll find that the imagery used over and over is one of punishment. It's....slightly terrifying to read, to be perfectly honest. And yes...in a strictly human way, we would expect that a person would die from some of the imagery used...burning being the primary one used. However, the very fact that the punishment is eternal and is along with 'weeping and gnashing of teeth', as well as described as a place of 'outer darkness'...it gives us a fuller picture. Whatever happens to people who reject Christ is terrifying, but it is something they have embraced themselves. It will be just, and it will be eternal. If it is eternal, they too will require the sort of body that's needed to endure the punishment they have chosen. So, I expect, like us, there will be a generation of unsaved who will not experience physical death. But ultimately, that will mean very little to them.

Second, what I have presented has gone unchallenged because it is scriptural fact. It cannot be denied that the ruling of the nations happens after Armageddon thus proving there are survivors. Rev 19 isn't the only passage that proves this either.

Ahh.
"Gone unchallenged"...?
I'm actually not even really sure how to respond to this.
First: yes it's been challenged. I challenged it.
Second: I challenged it because your "scriptural facts" are not scriptural facts, they're things you're inferring. You're then ignoring other 'scriptural facts' and seemingly dismissing dealing with them by saying you already have. If you truly have, give me a post # so I can read it....thanks.
As far as why there cannot be survivor's after Christ's return, go back and read my previous posts (#347 and #363). I have no desire to write it all out again. Especially since it appears you didn't read them anyway.

No. Everyone understands that the nations are those who are the unsaved mortals. Rev 2 makes that quite clear. Not to mention the common Amill position is that the "rule" with the rod of iron is violent, killing the nations which is wrong and ignorant of the meaning of RULE in the greek.

Well...I'm not sure if you know this about me, but I don't slot nicely into the "Amill" position. Which perhaps makes it tricky for those trying to peg me down. Sorry.
So me, I'm more inclined to look at what the bible says...in this case what the Greek word is bending towards, rather than what a traditional doctrinal stance is.

We know Revelation uses the phrase 'nations' in regard to both sinful 'earth-dwellers', but also, on occasion, to the vast swath of people who make up those who hold true to the testimony of Christ. ('from every tribe and language and people and nation' Rev 5:9). So, it can be hard to insist it must only be used one way or the other.

As far as who it is that Christ ruling over...
Consider this: for those of us who are forever his...we will kneel before him when he returns, out of joy and devotion. He will rule over us...be shepherd over us, because of who he is.
For those who have rejected him, at his return, we know every knee shall bow. We do not know how long a time period it will be for the judgement period to take; will it happen in a blink of an eye, as the saints translation will? Who knows. But in that moment, every single person who rejects Christ will be bought under his rule and forced to acknowledge his complete and utter Lordship of the universe. And even while their ultimate punishment might be spent 'away from the Lord and his angels', even there will under his Lordship and rule.
Basically, my point is this: After Christ comes, he WILL rule and reign. He will shepherd his flock, absolutely. But he'll also rule the whole cosmos. And...once again...there is no need for natural bodies to make it past his return. Which is a good thing, since there are all those pesky passages that make that very difficult.

 

[JunChosen]

Since I believe the Word tells us who the Antichrist is, it might be important to begin by identifying who He is not.

But he has been identified by many Christians for over two thousand years now.

The Antichrist is neither Jewish, nor Roman.

But who is he since you know he is not a Jew or a Roman?

To God Be The Glory

 

[ewq1938]

You may have addressed these passages, but I have not seen your attempt.
But if your rebuttal is that none of them mention that all humans are killed at the second coming, then I confess I'm disappointed.

Scripture is clear there are nations that are ruled over past the second coming. If you disagree, show your evidence. I've shown mine.

Ahh.
"Gone unchallenged"...?
I'm actually not even really sure how to respond to this.
First: yes it's been challenged. I challenged it.

Not really. The word for RULE is in the future tense and that has gone unchallenged. It is proof that John placed the rule over the nations AFTER Armageddon.

Well...I'm not sure if you know this about me, but I don't slot nicely into the "Amill" position. Which perhaps makes it tricky for those trying to peg me down. Sorry.
So me, I'm more inclined to look at what the bible says...in this case what the Greek word is bending towards, rather than what a traditional doctrinal stance is.

We know Revelation uses the phrase 'nations' in regard to both sinful 'earth-dwellers', but also, on occasion, to the vast swath of people who make up those who hold true to the testimony of Christ. ('from every tribe and language and people and nation' Rev 5:9). So, it can be hard to insist it must only be used one way or the other.

Rev 2 makes it clear that overcomers will rule over the nations which makes the nations non-Christians, non-overcomers. These are the same nations mentioned in Rev 19.

And...once again...there is no need for natural bodies to make it past his return.

Mortals do exist past the second coming. Only saved believers are made immortal, so the nations being ruled over are mortal and are still mortal after the thousand years when they are killed by fire at Jerusalem.

 

[n2thelight]

It's going to be important very soon, for some to know who the Antichrist is.

Since I believe the Word tells us who the Antichrist is, it might be important to begin by identifying who He is not.

The Antichrist is neither Jewish, nor Roman.

Comments?

satan

 

[The Light]

But he has been identified by many Christians for over two thousand years now.


But who is he since you know he is not a Jew or a Roman?

To God Be The Glory

Now that's funny. I named the beast of the sea somewhere in this written corn-traption.

 

[The Light]

satan

Go Fish.

 

[n2thelight]

Go Fish.

He's the only one that can be , it won't be a mere flesh man ,period

 

[The Light]

He's the only one that can be , it won't be a mere flesh man ,period

What brings you to this conclusion?

 

[Naomi25]

You have me cracking up here but i loved your response.

Take your time with that post and the verses as they speak for themself and are loaded with info.
Peace

With all due respect...
I see plenty in those verses. And yes, they are loaded with info. However...IF I were going to see what you do in them, don't you think I would have by now?
The very fact that I do not and cannot, is why we are having this conversation. Therefore, if you wish me to see what you do, you might need to actually spell it out for me.
Chances are I'll still disagree, but at least I'll be disagreeing with your actual point, rather than what you're just winking and nodding at.

 

[Naomi25]

Scripture is clear there are nations that are ruled over past the second coming. If you disagree, show your evidence. I've shown mine.

Matthew 25:19–21
[19] Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. [20] And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ [21] His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’

The parable of the talents. We know, thanks to right at the end of the parable, where the unfaithful servant is cast out into the 'outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth', that the ultimate rewards...or punishments that Jesus is speaking about within this parable are those of an eternal consequence.
We also know, when we read the parable, that some will be 'rewarded' with greater responsibility within the kingdom than others. Indeed, we know from other scriptures, like 1 Cor 3:13-15 that even though a person themselves might be saved, because their works are no good, they will enter the kingdom of heaven with nothing to show.

My point: it is quite logical to conclude that 'greater responsibility' means that some will be placed in positions of 'power' within the kingdom. Of course, I doubt any power structure will look the same as what we know, but still, it will exist. We know God and Christ will reign supreme...we also know there will be 12 thrones about theirs...the disciples, perhaps? But in a kingdom where we will all work to the glory of God, authority structures must exist. And those placed in greater authority are those who will be rewarded for their faithful stewardship here.

So yes...yes there will be nations to be ruled over. Some will do the ruling, some will be ruled.

Not really. The word for RULE is in the future tense and that has gone unchallenged. It is proof that John placed the rule over the nations AFTER Armageddon.

I think you were missing my point. Let me try and break it down:
AFTER Armageddon, when Christ returns (and we agree this is future, yes?), do you agree that every person...every tongue and nation under heaven, will be forced to bow and acknowledge that Christ is Lord? Not accept him as their saviour...but acknowledge that he is God and that they have been...indeed still are, in open rebellion to him.
Can you see that in this action...no matter how brief it might be, they are, indeed, being ruled completely...
Can you also acknowledge that even while in hell, they still fall under the purview of Christ's Lordship...or is he not Lord of every molecule within the cosmos?

Rev 2 makes it clear that overcomers will rule over the nations which makes the nations non-Christians, non-overcomers. These are the same nations mentioned in Rev 19.

The problem I have with stating absolutes like this, is it can back you into a corner. Does Revelation MOSTLY use 'nations' in reference to the sinful people dwelling on the earth? Yes. However, there are enough occasions where the word 'nations' is clearly just used to describe people of all tribes and nationalities. For example:

Revelation 21:22–24
[22] And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. [23] And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. [24] By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it,

This is very clearly after the verse that tells us that the new heavens and new earth have arrived. So...no sinful folks remain.

Mortals do exist past the second coming. Only saved believers are made immortal, so the nations being ruled over are mortal and are still mortal after the thousand years when they are killed by fire at Jerusalem.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.
Here's the thing, and I'm being totally honest with you. Revelation is apocalyptic, and the sort of imagery it uses makes it...let's say, open to nuance. It could be that you are right about your interpretation in 'nation'. Could be. Or...could be that my take on it is right. It's not so cut and dried...it doesn't lay out a direct picture for us, because, by its very nature, its using imagery to tell us its truths.
However, the other passages in the NT, the ones I've pointed out that DO very clearly talk of Christ's return...the ones that tell us that ALL people will be judged at that moment...those ones are clear.
So...any decent scholar knows you interpret the less clear passages by the clearer ones. Goodness knows I'm not a scholar, but I can read, and I can think, and I'd have to be an idiot to dismiss all those clear passages that tell me that both righteouss and sinful people get judged into eternity at Christ's coming. That's the moment. Right there.
So for me, talking about the word 'nations' in Revelation is interesting, sure. But unless you've cast serious doubt on those rock-solid verses first, no nuance in Revelation is going to help build your case.

 

[ewq1938]

I think you were missing my point. Let me try and break it down:
AFTER Armageddon, when Christ returns (and we agree this is future, yes?), do you agree that every person...every tongue and nation under heaven, will be forced to bow and acknowledge that Christ is Lord? Not accept him as their saviour...but acknowledge that he is God and that they have been...indeed still are, in open rebellion to him.

The bible is silent on whether this happens or not. I know those people will be ruled by a rod of iron but what they are forced to do regarding Christ is unknown.

Can you see that in this action...no matter how brief it might be, they are, indeed, being ruled completely...

Sure, that's basic Premill belief.

Can you also acknowledge that even while in hell, they still fall under the purview of Christ's Lordship...or is he not Lord of every molecule within the cosmos?

Sure but being ruled over by a rod of iron by Christ and his saints is a more specific type of rule and it is written to be over mortals of the nations after the Coming and it lasts a thousand years.

The problem I have with stating absolutes like this, is it can back you into a corner. Does Revelation MOSTLY use 'nations' in reference to the sinful people dwelling on the earth? Yes. However, there are enough occasions where the word 'nations' is clearly just used to describe people of all tribes and nationalities. For example:

Revelation 21:22–24
[22] And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. [23] And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. [24] By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it,

This is very clearly after the verse that tells us that the new heavens and new earth have arrived. So...no sinful folks remain.

Who the nations are is determined by context. As I explained, the nations being ruled over by overcomers in Rev 2 proves the nations are not also overcomers since overcomers are the ones who shall rule.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.
Here's the thing, and I'm being totally honest with you. Revelation is apocalyptic, and the sort of imagery it uses makes it...let's say, open to nuance. It could be that you are right about your interpretation in 'nation'. Could be. Or...could be that my take on it is right. It's not so cut and dried...it doesn't lay out a direct picture for us, because, by its very nature, its using imagery to tell us its truths.
However, the other passages in the NT, the ones I've pointed out that DO very clearly talk of Christ's return...the ones that tell us that ALL people will be judged at that moment...those ones are clear.

There is a throne judgment for the saved at the Coming, and the only other throne judgment is after the thousand years when "the rest of the dead" are judged.

So for me, talking about the word 'nations' in Revelation is interesting, sure. But unless you've cast serious doubt on those rock-solid verses first, no nuance in Revelation is going to help build your case.

The example I gave is rock solid. It is the position that questions who the nations are in the end of Rev 2 which is the non-solid position.

 

[Always Believing]

Satan is a created angel. Thus can appear as a man in human form. Paul does not call Satan a dragon, so the default would be a male human form. Paul was not being symbolic, just calling Satan out for leading men astray, even before Paul's time on earth.

I don't read of any devil being allowed human form by God. It was still Judas that betrayed Jesus after Satan entered into his heart. But we're on the same page about the beast's power from Satan from within the man himself.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't read of any devil being allowed human form by God. It was still Judas that betrayed Jesus after Satan entered into his heart. But we're on the same page about the beast's power from Satan from within the man himself.

Satan is an angel. The term devil is a nickname. There is no seperate group of created beings known as a devil, or devils.

The word demon refers to spirits. Devils are a nickname for demonic spirits. A spirit is part of a human image: body, soul, and spirit. A spirit can work independently from a human's soul and body.

 

[Naomi25]

The bible is silent on whether this happens or not. I know those people will be ruled by a rod of iron but what they are forced to do regarding Christ is unknown.

Romans 14:10–12
[10] Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; [11] for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
[12] So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.


2 Corinthians 5:10
[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Paul tells us clearly that at the judgement seat, which is described as both the judgement seat of both 'God' and of 'Christ', everyone will bow before them.

Sure, that's basic Premill belief.

Well...regardless of the specific camp you reside in, I think most will agree that if the Bible teaches everyone will submit to Christ's rule...one way or the other, they come under his rule.

Sure but being ruled over by a rod of iron by Christ and his saints is a more specific type of rule and it is written to be over mortals of the nations after the Coming and it lasts a thousand years.

Except, as I keep pointing out, you still have not delt with the issue of HOW those mortals get there. You say there are mortals after Christ's return. You say there has to be, the bible itself puts them there.
I say those verses are perhaps, more ambiguous, but let's put them aside briefly.
You still have not explained HOW we deal with those many CLEAR passages that state that at Christ's return all those living; both saved and unsaved are judged into their eternal residences and states.
Without dealing with those passages...and by going on to point to mortals being present, you are only insisting the bible has a raging case of contradictions. IF you want people to take your supposition seriously, you must first do the work that allows them to go "hmmm, sure, okay, I can see how those verses might NOT be talking about all living people being judged into eternity".
You have not done that.

Who the nations are is determined by context. As I explained, the nations being ruled over by overcomers in Rev 2 proves the nations are not also overcomers since overcomers are the ones who shall rule.

Yeah...context is good. I get context. And context here does leave a bit of room to scratch ones head.
However, if one is truly concerned with context, I do wonder why you cannot, or will not, apply the larger context to the issue at hand.
Because, sure...'nations' in Revelation, while not an absolute, does leave one looking towards one particular direction. However, when considered together with the bulk of other scripture on the topic, one simply cannot come to the conclusion you are arriving at. You are tossing the greater biblical context out the window in favour of, apparently, a singular book that is admittedly largely symbolic.
Now, I'm largely Amil, so I do symbolic. I like symbolic and I get symbolic. But ignoring the rest of scripture in favour of it...seems a bit foolish to me.

There is a throne judgment for the saved at the Coming, and the only other throne judgment is after the thousand years when "the rest of the dead" are judged.

Ah...no. No...that's not what scripture tells us at all.

Matthew 25:31–33, 46
The Final Judgment
[31] “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. [32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. [33] And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left....[46] And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

1 Corinthians 15:23–26, 52-55
[23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. [24] Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. [25] For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. [26] The last enemy to be destroyed is death....[52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. [53] For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. [54] When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
[55] “O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”


Revelation 20:7
[7] And when the thousand years are ended....

Revelation 20:11–12, 14-15
Judgment Before the Great White Throne
[11] Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. [12] And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done....[14] Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. [15] And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Okay, a bit long winded, but clear, nevertheless. Matt 25 clearly shows us that AT Christ's return, both believing and unbelieving LIVING people are judged. Into their eternal state.
1 Cor 15 tells us that AT Christ's coming, those who 'belong to him' receive their 'first fruit' bodies. The 'imperishable'...this clearly corroborates that no believing mortals proceed past this point.
The interesting thing about this passage is that it tells us some things. The first is that this all happens At Christ's return, not at the end of a thousand years. The second is that it is at this same point that Christ 'hands over the kingdom' to the Father. I won't go into that at this point, but it is interesting, especially in light of the next passage, Rev 20. The 3rd thing we see is that this event: Christ's return and the believers receiving their new, imperishable bodies, is the death of death. We see in 1 Cor 15:26 that 'the last enemy to be defeated is death'...and then in 54 we are told that when the trumpet sound and the perishable puts on the imperishable, the mortal puts on the immortal, death is vanquished. Defeated. No more.
Which brings us to the Rev 20 passage. It starts by clearly telling us that what follows in AFTER the thousand years.
Before the judgement thrones are the dead. Books are opened and they are judged. Some contend that because only the dead are mentioned here that this judgement is a separate judgement to the one in Matt 25. However, there is one good reason why only the dead are mentioned here, and several good reasons to reject the idea this is a separate judgement.
The reason only the dead are mentioned here is that death itself is under judgement. We read 'death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.' Before death can ultimately be defeated, those held within its grasp must be dealt with...must be judged. But we know, thanks to other verses, such as 1 Thess 4:15-16 and 1 Cor 15:52 that the living and the dead are 'raised' at the same time...at the same event. This links the events of Matt 25 and Rev 20 together. Meaning that there is one throne judgement, for both living and dead, believing and unbelieving. And, as 1 Cor 15 tells us, it is this occasion that see death defeated and mortal given immortality.

The example I gave is rock solid. It is the position that questions who the nations are in the end of Rev 2 which is the non-solid position.

Well, you can certainly keep believing that if you want to.