Who is the Antichrist? Let's Put a Name on Him.

[ewq1938]

Except, as I keep pointing out, you still have not delt with the issue of HOW those mortals get there. You say there are mortals after Christ's return. You say there has to be, the bible itself puts them there.
I say those verses are perhaps, more ambiguous, but let's put them aside briefly.

There are verses that are actually clear that people will be alive after the second coming, Rev 2, 19 and 20 show this.

You still have not explained HOW we deal with those many CLEAR passages that state that at Christ's return all those living; both saved and unsaved are judged into their eternal residences and states.

Let's see if they are as clear as you believe:

Matthew 25:31–33, 46
The Final Judgment
[31] “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. [32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. [33] And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left....[46] And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

You placed verse 33 immediately next to verse 46...that's highly misleading. 46 should be placed separately to show it is not near what the other verses are talking about. Better yet, the entire passage should be posted with the certain verses highlighted.




Verse 46 is clearly the last day before the NHNE, found in Rev 20. It is LONG after the second coming over a thousand years earlier. Here Christ gives a BRIEF description of events that takes place over a long time. People are not sent to the eternal punishment the same day he returns.

1 Corinthians 15:23–26, 52-55
[23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. [24] Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. [25] For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. [26] The last enemy to be destroyed is death....[52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. [53] For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. [54] When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
[55] “O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

You did the same thing here...

Nothing here disagrees with the chronology of Rev 20 where a judgment and resurrection happen BEFORE the thousand years and "the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were finished" proving a second resurrection happens AFTER the thousand years. Two days of resurrection and judgment is Premill.

 

[Jay Ross]

Verse 46 is clearly the last day before the NHNE, found in Rev 20. It is LONG after the second coming over a thousand years earlier. Here Christ gives a BRIEF description of events that takes place over a long time. People are not sent to the eternal punishment the same day he returns.

I am surprised that you are critical of someone for not adequately separating verses which do not numerically follow each other. but the gap between the verses was highlighted by a number of "....." to indicate that there were verses let out between the verses indicated.

As for when the second coming happens, well, your expressed opinion as to when that occurs is suspect.

The "Second Coming to judge the peoples of the whole earth," occurs at the end of the Seventh Age, not at the beginning of the seventh age as you are suggesting.

It is possible, using only the Old Testament, to determine when the Final Judgement/Second Coming will occur. Your chronology of the events that occur over this time span is suspect. Christ's return to judge the peoples of the earth occurs at the end of the seventh age.

Sadly, you are keeping company with many others who are making the same mistake as you.

 

[ewq1938]

The "Second Coming to judge the peoples of the whole earth," occurs at the end of the Seventh Age, not at the beginning of the seventh age as you are suggesting.

I don't beieve in this supposed "seven ages" so how could I suggest anything about it?

 

[Naomi25]

There are verses that are actually clear that people will be alive after the second coming, Rev 2, 19 and 20 show this.

No...these passages are far from 'clear'. Far from the 'slam dunk' you claim them to be.
The passage in Rev 2 is inconclusive. While the majority of times Rev uses 'nations', it is for the wicked peoples of the earth, it also applies it to the peoples of God from every tribe, tongue and...nation. Thus, as you have previously pointed out, context is important. In Rev 2 we see that 'The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations'. The verse gives a timeframe in which we must place our understanding in. Of course, this is where the 'begin again, begin again' theology of Premillennialism kicks in, and they'll say "which end?' My response....it's not really the end, if another one comes after it.
In short...it is thoroughly conceivable that, as I've pointed out before, what is being spoken of is a nation of believers, where those who are rewarded more greatly in the kingdom, are given more authority over others. It's taught within scripture, and it would appear to also reach a harmonious outcome where no scripture contradicts itself.
Rev 19...again, we've been through this. Christ's return in majesty, where every eye see's him and every knee bows and every tongue confesses he is Lord. There can be no doubt that at that moment...and then all the moments after...in the moments of judgement and as judgment is carried out, that he continues to be Lord over all in the universe. It does not require people to continue on in their mortal bodies. Indeed...if you read Rev 19, I doubt you can find anywhere that tells you that folks continue on in mortal bodies.

Revelation 19:17–18
[17] Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, [18] to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.”

Sounds like judgement to me.

And then we get to Rev 20, which is just more of the same. Judging of the dead. No mortal folk here. The only time mortal folk seem to be mentioned in relation to Christ's return, directly, is Matt 25, and, as I keep pointing out, its rather plain.

Let's see if they are as clear as you believe:

You placed verse 33 immediately next to verse 46...that's highly misleading. 46 should be placed separately to show it is not near what the other verses are talking about. Better yet, the entire passage should be posted with the certain verses highlighted.

You see the .... ? Those aren't just because I want to pause for dramatic effect or like the look of them. They're actually there to indicate a break in the scripture I'm giving. And, you'll note, when I cite the scripture I'm giving, I noted that I was citing Matt 25:31-33, 46. See the coma? Again, it indicates a gap.
I'm terribly sorry if you're not cognizant of proper citation. But that's not my problem, and it's hardly a sound argument. In point of fact, it's rather pitiful.

Verse 46 is clearly the last day before the NHNE, found in Rev 20. It is LONG after the second coming over a thousand years earlier. Here Christ gives a BRIEF description of events that takes place over a long time. People are not sent to the eternal punishment the same day he returns.

Really? That is an...interesting take. I must confess, I do wonder how you find that within the text.

Matthew 25:31
[31] “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

WHEN the Son of Man comes, THEN he will sit on his throne. Not, 1000 years after he comes, THEN he will sit on his throne. It doesn't even tell us that he sits on his throne and then the judgement takes place 1000 years later...or takes that long doing the judgement. There is absolutely nothing within the text that even suggests a time hiatus. Clear reading of the text is that it happens WHEN the Son of Man comes and sits on his throne. Anything else is just wishful thinking.
I suppose people will see anything in a text if the need it to be there.

You did the same thing here...

Nothing here disagrees with the chronology of Rev 20 where a judgment and resurrection happen BEFORE the thousand years and "the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were finished" proving a second resurrection happens AFTER the thousand years. Two days of resurrection and judgment is Premill.

Absolutely I did the same thing here. Again, I don't apologise for it.
Oh boy.
Yes it absolutely disagrees with it. Brace yourself, I'm about to cite properly again:

1 Corinthians 15:23–26, 52-55
[23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. [24] Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. [25] For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. [26] The last enemy to be destroyed is death....[52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. [53] For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. [54] When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
[55] “O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

Okay...what's being talked about here? Firstfruits...Christ being the first of. Resurrection bodies, yeah?
So, v23 tells us that AT Christ's coming...his return, those who belong to him...ALL those who belong to him, will also receive their 'firstfruit' bodies. Which is what it is talking about in both v26 (last enemy to be destroyed) and v54 (mortal puts on immortality).
We are also told that THIS SAME EVENT will see Christ handing the Kingdom over to the Father after he's destroyed every rule and every authority and power. We can know this happens at the same time, because we know, thanks to v26, that the LAST enemy to be defeated is death, and yet death is defeated AT Christ's return. So...what we have in Christ's coming, is the defeat of all earthly forces aligned against God and his children, AND the defeat of death in the giving of the immortal to the mortal.

What makes this passage important, is that when we consider Rev 20, it CAN ONLY fit in Rev 20, AFTER the 1000 years, when death is thrown into the lake of fire. The death of death.
Which means, this moment, when Christ returns, all believers are given their resurrection bodies and all resistant earthly foes are defeated...is the end of the millennium. Not at the start of it.
Now...I sort of think the whole millennium debate is pants. And it does get murky, and terminology can cloud things...and I just don't like it. But...when it comes to what the bible teaches on Christ's return and folks being gathered to him/folks being judged? That...I think the bible is crystal clear on.

 

[robert derrick]

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Is this the same beast in Rev 13:1? Is this a man in Daniel 7:7? In both there is a ten horned beast.

True. A ten horned beast but not the same. To give 7 heads to the Dan 7 beast, is to add to the Scripture 6 more heads that are not mentioned. Not to mention 10 crowns where none are spoken of.

I've seen the thread from someone else that they are not, and I completely agree with it. They do not have the same descriptions.

And if the 10 horns is all it takes to be the same one, then that includes the red dragon of Rev 12. Thus, Satan himself becomes that beast and man of sin. While I believe he will enter that first beast, who then only becomes a mouthpiece for him, that does not mean Satan is ever incarnate as the Word being made flesh.

I don't read any Scripture of any angels becoming men in the flesh unto death of the body.

And of course the first beast is cast into the LOF, while Satan is shut up in the pit and not cast into the LOF for another thousand years.

 

[ewq1938]

True. A ten horned beast but not the same. To give 7 heads to the Dan 7 beast, is to add to the Scripture 6 more heads that are not mentioned. Not to mention 10 crowns where none are spoken of.

I've seen the thread from someone else that they are not, and I completely agree with it. They do not have the same descriptions.

And if the 10 horns is all it takes to be the same one, then that includes the red dragon of Rev 12. Thus, Satan himself becomes that beast and man of sin. While I believe he will enter that first beast, who then only becomes a mouthpiece for him, that does not mean Satan is ever incarnate as the Word being made flesh.

So then you don't agree Daniels ten horned beast is the same beast John wrote of? That would mean you don't believe the little horn is the AC either. So who is this ten horned beast being judged and cast into fire at what appears to be the second coming?


Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

This all sure looks like the OT version of the GT with the AC overcoming the saints and the second coming, judgment and destruction of the ten horned beast and the beginning of God's eternal kingdom.

 

[robert derrick]

The whole point is that one history is recorded by humans about the same people found in Scripture,

One true history from God. One false myth from the devil's muse. Myths are not just harmless tales of dim memories of man. They are purposed lies of Lucifer that knows the truth of all things and turns them into lies.

His success is seen in so-called Christian scholars showing how the Bible was 'influenced', by older myths whether the epic of Gilgamesh or Tammuz/Phoenix resurrections from death.

A person could write about Abraham Lincoln as a strong Christian. Or they could turn his time into a vampire hunter as some "hidden fact". That does not mean Abraham Lincoln a fake made up person.

Modern Lincoln fictional novels are not ancient myths, upon which pagan religions are made, and the Bible is seen as just another book of myths with it's own religion.

There was only one Flood in history and all legands are about that one single Flood.

One history reveals the truth of that flood, and all the rest are false myths to muddy the true record of Scripture. Your words suggest the Bible is just another one of the recorded legends.

Why would I ever point out Scripture came from human legends passed down from generation to generation?

Why would anyone, but they do.

I would point out that Jesus with His nail scares and pierced side, sat down with Moses on mount Sinai as the Word, and told Moses the whole history of all creation. From the beginning to the end, after the Day of the Lord.

And so here you are making up a myth out of Scripture. The prophesied Lamb slain from the foundation of the world was not slain, when the God of Israel spoke face to face with Moses on the mount and in the wilderness.

The risen God of Israel does not go back in time to do things over again.

Moses was not condemned to death for disobedience.
He was prevented from the celebration of entering and settling the Promised Land with Joshua.

No one says he was condemned unto death.

There was nothing physically wrong with Moses. He was taken from the earth.

And now another myth.

And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

He was still strong bodily and had good vision, when he died.

Moses wrote those words that he died, and told them not to look for his body, because they would never find it.

And now the biggest whopper of a myth.

No one actually saw Moses die, and wrote about it.

God did: And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

And, He may have had Joshua write his obituary of Scriptures finishing Deut 34.

Any one claiming Moses physically died would be as wrong as all the made up stuff about Nimrod under the name of Gilgamesh.

Anyone rejecting Scripture and making up myths instead is arong.

And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

I mean, you have read this scripture before right? It's no different than when the Bible says Joshua and David died.

And it came to pass after these things, that Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died, being an hundred and ten years old.

Thus David the son of Jesse reigned over all Israel. And the time that he reigned over Israel was forty years; seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem.

And he died in a good old age, full of days, riches, and honour: and Solomon his son reigned in his stead.

And angels never took on human flesh either. That is as much a made up story as Gilgamesh. The half god, aliens, different beings is all hogwash from Satan.

Amen.

Adam was just one of the sons of God, God called out for a purpose, just like God called Abraham out for a purpose, 2,000 years later.

Here you go again with more myth.. It's almost funny really. God didn't call out Adam for anything, until He had to look for him after he sinned.

And so, there are Jews making up Jewish fables, and now Christians making up Christian fables.

I know it's probably fun and intellectually stimulating, but we see how you have turned from the truth of Scripture to do so, even as they. You don't accept all Scripture as the written truth.

 

[robert derrick]

So then you don't agree Daniels ten horned beast is the same beast John wrote of?

No. I said the exact opposite. I used to try and make them the same beast, as well as that of Rev 17. Now I don't have to force that, because it isn't true. Now I interpret the prophecies of those three beasts as being separate. And so, if Daniel's beast is not a man, then no problem, because the first beast of Rev 13 certainly is a man.

That includes the scarlet beast, that someone else says is Apollyon the king of the bottomless pit and an angel. So far, that could be true.

That would mean you don't believe the little horn is the AC either.

Since they are not the same, then the little horn can be any AC, and maybe beast from the earth and the false prophet.

So who is this ten horned beast being judged and cast into fire at what appears to be the second coming?

The first one of Rev 13 of course. Both prophecies speak of his name and number, as well as the beast of the earth being his false prophet.

Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

This all sure looks like the OT version of the GT with the AC overcoming the saints and the second coming, judgment and destruction of the ten horned beast and the beginning of God's eternal kingdom.

Yes looks like it. As I said, the little horn could be the beast with two horns of a lamb. But then, that would cause God to contradict Himself in His prophecies, because the beast of Dan 7 is killed, destroyed, and cast into the flaming fire of hell, not cast alive into the LOF.

I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

It does occur to me that maybe only the beast is given to flames of hell, but not the little horn. The Scripture does not say the little horn goes with him, and it is written in a manner that could show the beast is destroyed, while the little horn continues on speaking.

Attention to detail is very important in Scripture. God writes His word very specifically and exactly, but we tend to gloss over it with our own thinking. I know that I used to immediately believe they were the same beasts, until someone pointed out they do not have the same description.

Perhaps the little horn is the first beast with a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies.

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

And further, the writing here of plucking up three other horns could be speaking of that beast's death at the hands of the little horn. Losing three horns could kill any beast, even if 4 are left.

 

[Timtofly]

And, He may have had Joshua write his obituary of Scriptures finishing Deut 34.

Just as much a blockbuster myth. No one was a witness to the death of Moses.

 

[ewq1938]

It does occur to me that maybe only the beast is given to flames of hell, but not the little horn. The Scripture does not say the little horn goes with him, and it is written in a manner that could show the beast is destroyed, while the little horn continues on speaking.

Impossible since the little horn is one of 11 horns on the beast in Daniel 7. If the beast is burned, so too are all of it's horns.

 

[Timtofly]

I know it's probably fun and intellectually stimulating, but we see how you have turned from the truth of Scripture to do so, even as they. You don't accept all Scripture as the written truth.

Yes God placed Adam in the Garden. So God moved Adam from point A to point B. That is being called out. Adam had no choice in being placed in the Garden, and no faith, because he disobeyed God. Abraham obeyed God by choice, and had faith.

Laugh if you want to, but read the verses, instead of just an op ed.

"And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."

Adam was taken and set apart from all the other sons of God created on the 6th day. He was only alone after being placed in the Garden.

 

[robert derrick]

Just as much a blockbuster myth. No one was a witness to the death of Moses.

God was, and had a ready writer to record it: And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

If you're not going to believe plain words of Scripture, then there's nothing I can do to help you. All I do is quote Scripture and believe it as written.

To say Moses wrote his own obituary, is not only denying what is written of his death, but is calling Moses a deceiver and liar.

Unfortunately, your love of myth instead of Scripture of truth, is the same as that of Jewish lovers of fables.

 

[robert derrick]

Impossible since the little horn is one of 11 horns on the beast in Daniel 7. If the beast is burned, so too are all of it's horns.

Probably, but if he is the same little horn of Dan 8, and coming out of the goat with four horns, then he does not stay among them.

Also, the the 3 beasts continue on after the 4th beast is killed, destroyed, and burned, and so he cannot be the 1st beast cast into the LOF, since no beast continues after him.

And the Dan 7 beast is cast into burning flames first, which certainly is hell, not the LOF. Hell has flames, and then the LOF has hell after it gives up her dead. The first beast and false prophet bypass hell altogether. And so, not only is their make up different, but also their end.

 

[robert derrick]

Adam was taken and set apart from all the other sons of God created on the 6th day.

He was created and put in the garden. He was only separated from the beasts of the field.

So, who might these other sons of God be?

 

[ewq1938]

Probably, but if he is the same little horn of Dan 8, and coming out of the goat with four horns, then he does not stay among them.

Also, the the 3 beasts continue on after the 4th beast is killed, destroyed, and burned, and so he cannot be the 1st beast cast into the LOF, since no beast continues after him.

There are no other 10 horned beasts though. That beast is destroyed and then the saints possess the kingdom for eternity. There is no room in Daniel 7 to force another ten horned beast to rise up and rule the world. That 4th beast is the last beast in Daniel's vision.

Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.


Obviously this was the events that were to take place at the end of this world but it is not the same ending events that John saw. The two visions cannot be mixed together because they directly contradict each other. I'm all for apologetics and have participated in many myself but this one is insurmountable and impossible. God can change prophecy and has done it in the past and clearly has done it with much of Daniel's prophecies.

 

[Timtofly]

God was, and had a ready writer to record it: And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

If you're not going to believe plain words of Scripture, then there's nothing I can do to help you. All I do is quote Scripture and believe it as written.

To say Moses wrote his own obituary, is not only denying what is written of his death, but is calling Moses a deceiver and liar.

Unfortunately, your love of myth instead of Scripture of truth, is the same as that of Jewish lovers of fables.

No, Moses did not obey God. He was punished not a liar. He did not get to go in a chariot of fire. But any one can write their own obituary. That is not a sin.

 

[Timtofly]

He was created and put in the garden. He was only separated from the beasts of the field.

So, who might these other sons of God be?

Read Genesis 1:26-31

 

[robert derrick]

There are no other 10 horned beasts though. That beast is destroyed and then the saints possess the kingdom for eternity. There is no room in Daniel 7 to force another ten horned beast to rise up and rule the world. That 4th beast is the last beast in Daniel's vision.

As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

The horn made war with the saints to prevail against them, not the beast.

The beast stamped some other residue with his feet, and not the residue of the saints. There never will be a residue of saints stamped out on earth. The will be resurrected and ascend from the earth, but never stamped out.

That horn could be the first beast of Rev 13.

And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

That horn could be that dead beast made alive again and transforming himself into an even greater false prophet antichrist, after his dead body was destroyed with complete decomposure into bones only.

And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.

Those bones did live again by the hand of the Lord, to be the last great antichrist of Satan ever on earth.

And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

I'm liking this interpretation of prophecy more and more.

Obviously this was the events that were to take place at the end of this world but it is not the same ending events that John saw. The two visions cannot be mixed together because they directly contradict each other.

That's what I've been saying. It is not the same beast in Rev 13 as Dan 7. But it may be an old beast transformed into a new one, but only worse.

It's the same as being the old man transformed into the new man for the better.

One man of sin becomes even more conformed to Satan, while the saint is conformed to the life of Christ.

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Even as the saint is not the same old man, neither is the antichrist. I'm liking Korah for the job.

 

[robert derrick]

God can change prophecy and has done it in the past and clearly has done it with much of Daniel's prophecies.

How so? Which prophecies of God have been changed, after He prophesied what is to come to pass? And since prophecy of Scripture is Scripture, then to change the prophecy is to change the Scripture.

None of God's prophecies nor Scripture are changed after being written.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Prophecy of God is the Lord's promise and oath that He says will come to pass and will bring it to pass, and they cannot be changed by man, because they are not given by the will of man, but by the sure promise of God Himself:

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

God's word is His oath, and He changes not, and so His oath is never changed.

The gospel is prophecy of change to come in men's lives that believe and obey Jesus, but the gospel and His prophecy does not change, even if men believe not.

And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

Neither God's word, prophecy, Scripture, nor gospel ever changes, but all will be fulfilled as He has spoken and written by the pens of His prophets and apostles.

My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

Man's unbelief in prophecy of Scripture does not make it not true, nor does our will make it not come to pass. If our interpretation of Scripture requires prophecy and Scripture to change, then our interpretation and teaching is false.

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[robert derrick]

Read Genesis 1:26-31

Now that is interesting. It's always been concluded that this is prophecy of Scripture, with the hidden details of creating man revealed in Gen 2, as well as the prophecy being fulfilled by the children of Adam and Eve.

And it must be true, because Adam was the first man created by God.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Every teaching of Scripture must be tried by all Scripture. If any Scripture contradicts any teaching, then it is false teaching, so that Scripture is not broken, changed, or done away with to teach it.

The first time Adam was called anything was to be given a name. The only time the Lord called out for Adam was to come to Him for repentance, but he refused and blamed it all on Eve. Adam was the first man and first self-justifying coward on earth.

The only other sons of God are the angels, and no man is called out from among the angels, including the second Adam.

But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?