Who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
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Bad things happen in theology when we don’t know and / or don’t remember the past.
True up to a point... none the less, we live under the New Covenant now.
God no longer honors the old covenant.
He does bidness thru Jesus Christ now.
Yahweh and Jesus both matter.
Take away Jesus and there is no “bidness” with Yahweh.
Take away Yahweh and there is no God.
Not saying the Father is not still important.
But we pray in Jesus Name... we can only get saved in Jesus Name... we cast out devils in Jesus Name.
Some in the hebrew roots movement are denying Jesus to go back under the law of Moses... those doing that have falled from grace
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
But we pray in Jesus Name... we can only get saved in Jesus Name... we cast out devils in Jesus Name.
Some in the hebrew roots movement are denying Jesus to go back under the law of Moses... those doing that have falled from grace
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
That’s not entirely true…
Malachi 3:16-18,
“Thus did those who fear Jehovah talk to each other; and Jehovah listened and heard it, and a commemorative book was written before him for those who fear Jehovah and those who give consideration to his name. 17 And, says Jehovah of Armies, they shall on the day when I take action be for me a special reserve, and I will spare them as a man spares his own son that serves him; 18 and you will come back to seeing the difference between a right-doer and a wrong-doer, between a worshiper and a non-worshiper of Jehovah.”
This is who Jesus worshipped.
Bs"d
Isaiah 9:2-7 "2 The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined. 3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, thou hast increased its joy; they rejoice before thee as with joy at the harvest, as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. 4 For the yoke of his burden, and the staff for his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, thou hast broken as on the day of Mid'ian. 5 For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire. 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace". 7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and for evermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this."
Please take notice of the fact that Isaiah is talking in the past tense: "The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined.|
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government is upon his shoulder, and his name was called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
These are things which had happened already in the days of Isaiah.
If, despite these facts, you still want to apply these verses to JC, than read verse 5, 6, and 7, and see that JC didn't do any of those things. He never ruled on the throne of David, he never had any government on his shoulders, and there never was endless peace over his kingdom.
The same holds true for the verses 6 and 7: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace". 7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and for evermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this."
All of this doesn't hold true for JC; he never had any government on his shoulder. And also here is spoken in the past tense: "A child is born, a son is given. But most translations give it in the future tense. For instance the RSV, NIV, NAS, ESV, KJV, NIRV, the all say; "His name will be called ....", future tense. However, in the Hebrew text this too is past tense: "His name was called ...." The Hebrew expression here is "wayikra". That is the first word in the book of Leviticus. And all the previously mentioned translations there say: "And the Lord called Mozes ..." Past tense. Exactly the same the word. Isn't that weird? Exactly the same word is used in Genesis 5:1; "And God called the light 'day'" Called. Past tense. Nobody argues with that one. But why then, in Isaiah 9, is it suddenly changed to future tense? The answer is simple: The past tense doesn't fit with the Christian theology, and therefore the Bible translations are corrupted and twisted to fit the Christian religion. Just like that. There is only one solution for this problem: Take a course in Biblical Hebrew. It is more easy then it looks. Then your eyes will be opened and the Christian deception will stare you in the face. And yes, I do sympathize with the poor misguided Christians whom are being led astray by their clergy by means of twisted and corrupted Bible translations. That's the reason why I fulfill my duty of being a light unto the nations and uncovering the Christian deception.
"Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end" "There will be no end", future tense. And this too is WRONG. It is in the Hebrew present tense. I found only one translation which is correct here, and that is Young's Literal Translation.
Why all this stress on the tenses? Isaiah spoke about a king who was living in his days, and therefore JC is out. The king that Isaiah speaks about is Hezekiah, the son of Achaz who got from Isaiah the sign about the young woman (no, not the virgin) who was pregnant and gave birth to the son Immanuel.
The Talmud explains that under the rule of the God fearing Hezekiah the Jewish kingdom rose to great heights, and that's why he was entitled to those impressive titles.
Because of the fact that the name of the son is "Mighty God", (or "God is Mighty", both are possible translations) and "Eternals Father", the Christians deduce that the boy spoken about must have been God.
HOWEVER, a name is only that; a name. A name is not a description of the bearer of that name. An example: Buffalo Bill was not a buffalo. The indian chief Sitting Bull was not a bull.
Many times people in the Bible have in their name the word "God", or the name of God, but that doesn't mean that those people are God. For instance; in Exodus 6:23 is spoken about a man called "Elazar". That means "God is helper", or "Helping God". But that doesn't mean that that man was God.
Exodus 6:24; "Elkanah", that means "God acquired", or "acquiring God". II Samuel 22:19; "Elchanan"; "God is merciful", or "Merciful God". But these men were not God, just like the the child in Isaiah 9 wasn't God.
Apart from that, the Hebrew words "El gibor", in Christian Bibles translated with "Mighty God", can have a different meaning. "El" can mean "God", but it can also mean "judge", "leader", or "mighty man". In Exodus 4:16 God says to Moses that he will be of an elohiem for his brother Aharon. ("elohim" is the longer form of the word "el") This doesn't mean that Moses was a God for Aharon and Aharon started to worship his brother, it meant that Moses would be the leader of Aharon.
In Exodus 21:1-6 is spoken about a slave who after the normal period of servitude ended, doesn't want to leave his master. In that case the owner has to take him to court, where the slave will make a statement that he doesn't want to leave his master, and that he will serve his master until his death. The Hebrew text there says that his master must take him to the "elohim". There the NAS, ASV, ESV, NRSV, RSV, YLT, they all say that his master must take him "to God". However, his master doesn't take him for a ride to heaven, but takes him to the courthouse. Therefore the NIV, KJV, TNIV, and the NIRV, they all say that the master must take him to "the judges".
Even so in Isaiah 9 the word "El" does not necessarily mean "God". Therefore the text in Isaiah 9 is in no way a proof that the child spoken about was God.
The old covenant has been taken away... under the New Covenant, we are told to pray to the Father in Jesus Name (John 14:16)... Those trying to come to God any other way than thru Jesus are thieves and robbers (John 14:16)
So God does not hear the prayers of those not praying to the Father in Jesus' Name.
That is not entirely true. Jesus foretold in a number of parable that Israel people would turn once more to God. Sadly, Big Boy, you have tried to abscond with Jeremiah 31:31ff as if it belongs to you, whereas Jewish understanding I have seen tend to understand that God intends to make like new again the covenant He had made with Israel at Mt Sinai to be a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations, and that includes your nation Big Boy. Infact, God tells Israel that He will sprinkle them with water to cleanse them so that they can become a Kingdom of Priests and fulfill this prophecy.
God is waiting another 20 or so years before He will begin to hear Israel's cries of despair and begin gathering them to himself. Jewish scholars for a very long time, had trouble understanding God's time frames for prophecies that had very long timeframes to be fulfilled. When they encountered long time frame prophecies, they tend to believe that the time frame is a forever timeframe when the reality is that the end of that timeframe will occur unexpectedly for Israel.
Big Boy, be careful that you are not judged for your trampling of God's Earthly Hosts and end up with teeth like lion, i.e., very long, and long hair, i.e., like a woman when you come back as a locust for five months with a stinger in your tail.
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