Who is : The Original Bible Corrector

[Wrangler]

So that's 6,573 - 6,887occurences of God's name

Any and all variants of Lord/lord (lowercase) are not God’s name. I was not looking for occurrences but how many different people or beings that title applies to.

Again, lord Moses. Lord Joseph. Not too many people give credit where credit is due.

 

[keithr]

Any and all variants of Lord/lord (lowercase) are not God’s name. I was not looking for occurrences but how many different people or beings that title applies to.

Again, lord Moses. Lord Joseph. Not too many people give credit where credit is due.

Ah, sorry. As usual I get confused by lord, Lord and LORD! When you're reading it and you know the rules, it's not too bad, but if someone is reading it or audibly quoting it (and you are unable to follow in your own Bible), then it gets quite confusing as to who it's referring to!

 

[kcnalp]

See, the word of God can't be wrong, but it can be wrongly divided and wrongly taught and wrongly understood.

And thus, we have thousands of "Christians" with VASTLY different "Bible" doctrines.

 

[Wrangler]

And thus, we have thousands of "Christians" with VASTLY different "Bible" doctrines.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Having said that, I’m not sure how true this claim is. One thing I’ve been researching lately is ‘soul sleep.’ I’d call it a minor doctrine either way.

Most Christians hold to a central theme of God and his Son.

 

[Behold]

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Having said that, I’m not sure how true this claim is. One thing I’ve been researching lately is ‘soul sleep.’ I’d call it a minor doctrine either way.

Most Christians hold to a central theme of God and his Son.

"Soul Sleep" came from Origen.
He was a 1st century believer who was kinda crazy, but kinda brilliant.
He created the first "Christian School".
He created the Hexapla.
This fellow read a verse about "eunuch's for Christ", and took a knife and cut off his testicles and made himself a Eunuch because he thought that is what the verse means we are to do.
Catholics have been doing this type of stuff to themselves for 1600 yrs.
This religious organization created the "Dark Ages".
There was a time, not so long ago, that if you defied their doctrine, they'd just strap you to a pole and burn you to death.

One of their favorite Saints is "Joan Of Arc".
But she wasn't when they burned her alive.
They "repented", later, and now she's one of their showpieces.

Have you ever wondered why the Pope needs a small Army?
He has one.
Its the " Pontifical Swiss Guard""

You would think that God could protect his "pope".

I would tell you more about Origen, but you are into research, so go and find out.
Just dont correct the word of God with what you find out, and you're good to go.

Here is the thing.... if you dont have a good teacher to keep you from getting lost in the bible, then you might get lost in it.
Its easy to get lost in there and never find you way back to sanity or correct theology.
The bible is not a Toy.
It a spiritual bear trap, and you have to respect it, and never never never discredit it or try to correct, a REAL bible.
The bible corrects you.
You dont correct it, and when you do, the devil will take that pride and wrap you into a theological pretzel and keep you there.

 

[Wrangler]

"Soul Sleep" came from Origen.

It does not matter where it comes from. What matters is Scripture. IMO there is more in favor than opposed. Let's pursue this logically.

On Judgement Day, all will be resurrected, correct? What purpose does this resurrection serve if people are already aware in death?

 

[Behold]

It does not matter where it comes from. What matters is Scripture. IMO there is more in favor than opposed. Let's pursue this logically.

On Judgement Day, all will be resurrected, correct? What purpose does this resurrection serve if people are already aware in death?

There are 2 eternal judgements, that happen after a person dies.

there is the Great White Throne Judgement or Rev 20:11 and this one is for the Christ Rejectors whose name is not found in the Lamb's Book of Life.

But, there is a judgement for the born again, and this is not for sin..........this is for rewards.......or "what have you done in my Body"..

This judgment is the Judgement Seat of Christ, and all the born again, will be there, to be reviewed.

Study...> 1 Corinthians 3

 

[Wrangler]

There are 2 eternal judgements, that happen after a person dies.

there is the Great White Throne Judgement or Rev 20:11 and this one is for the Christ Rejectors whose name is not found in the Lamb's Book of Life.

This is something that always bothered me. Everyone will be resurrected but the damned are only resurrected to be punished. Seems like a waste of or counterproductive use of resurrection power.

 

[marks]

This is something that always bothered me. Everyone will be resurrected but the damned are only resurrected to be punished. Seems like a waste of or counterproductive use of resurrection power.

It's nothing if you are God.

Also, being as John wrote, "I saw the dead . . .", concerning the great white throne judgment, this doesn't seem to me to be the same kind of resurrection as received by the righteous.

Much love!

 

[keithr]

This is something that always bothered me. Everyone will be resurrected but the damned are only resurrected to be punished. Seems like a waste of or counterproductive use of resurrection power.

That is not correct. The passage says (Rev 20, WEB):

11) I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them.
12) I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13) The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works.
14) Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

At this point in time all Christians have already been resurrected, judged, and have eternal life ("Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years", verse 6). The rest of mankind are then resurrected (as humans again) and live on the earth for one thousand years, being ruled over by Jesus and the resurrected Christians ("I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years", verse 4). These non-Christians are referred to as "the dead", because although they have been resurrected to life again (they live on the earth for one thousand years and are standing before the throne at the end of the thousand years) they have not at that point been judged, and so don't yet have eternal life. This is why verse 5 says, "The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished". The passage does not say that they are all "damned" and that they are all going to suffer the second death. Only those who are judged to not be worthy of eternal life (those "not found written in the book of life") will be destroyed (second death) - everyone else will have eternal life.

It's at the end of the thousand years that:

7) And after the thousand years, Satan will be released from his prison,
8) and he will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war; the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9) They went up over the width of the earth, and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. Fire came down out of heaven from God and devoured them.
10) The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

So a large number of people will fail this final test, and be deceived by the devil and side with him to make war against those who remain faithful to God and Jesus (everyone will learn about Jesus and God during the thousand years of Christ's reign, unhindered by Satan's deceptions as he is bound up - "He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years", verse 2), and these are destroyed by God (second death). There is no indication of the number of those who will be be faithful and be given eternal life, but I'm sure it will be a very large number, to God's glory. God's earthly kingdom wouldn't be very glorious if there was nobody in it!

This is the judgement day of a thousand years (2 Peter 3:8-9):

8) But don’t forget this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9) The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Then Jesus turns the kingdom over to God's rule, 1 Corinthians 15:

24) Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25) For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
27) For, “He put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when he says, “All things are put in subjection”, it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him.
28) When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Wrangler]

This is something that always bothered me. Everyone will be resurrected but the damned are only resurrected to be punished. Seems like a waste of or counterproductive use of resurrection power.

That is not correct. The passage says (Rev 20, WEB):

It is correct. One cannot experience 2nd death unless there is a resurrection from the 1st death.

 

[Jay Ross]

Perhaps one has not read and understood this passage/verse: -

Ezekiel 34:17: - 17 'And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: "Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats.​

NKJV​

This verse suggests that there are two judgements that occur, the first separating those who do not call God Lord, from those who do call God Lord, with the second judgement separating the ones who have called God, Lord, into those who are like sheep and those who are like goats based on their righteous deeds/works. The very basis of Jesus' parable of the separation of the Nations as found in Matthew 25:31-46.

Perhaps the context of the English translation of Genesis 2:17 verse is wrong and gives the wrong impression as to what it is meant in the Hebrew text.

For me my money is on, 'if you sin, "then you will die the second death."' rather that, 'if you sin, "then you will surely die."'

Ezekiel 18 confirms my understanding. If you have sinned, then you are a candidate for the Second Death, but if your have repented of your sins, then you will Live and not be a candidate for the second death at the time of the great white throne room judgement.

But this is confronting for many people and they find it hard to accept that if they sin and do not repent of their sin, then they will die the second death. At to many funerals, people are told that the "person," who is in the coffin, has gone up into heaven to be with the Lord, but the reality is that when people die, they wait for the time of their resurrection, when it will be determined whether or not they are righteous and can actually enter into eternity with the Lord.

Our contextual misunderstanding should be corrected by firstly correcting the errors in our existing translations.

Shalom

PS: - Even with the existing errors in the Language translations of the Hebrew and Greek texts, God still works to bring salvation to those who will listen in the spirit to what He is saying.

 

[keithr]

It is correct. One cannot experience 2nd death unless there is a resurrection from the 1st death.

What was incorrect was your idea that "the damned are only resurrected to be punished", that all non-Christians are restored to life only to then be executed. Whereas what the passage is saying is that everyone that is resurrected will live for about one thousand years (i.e. for the majority of people they'll live far longer than they did in their first life). You said that it "Seems like a waste of or counterproductive use of resurrection power", but it isn't because they will have a longer, better life than before, and then they'll be judged and many will then be granted eternal life. So God will not be wasting his time and effort!

Christians are on trial for eternal life now - it is our faith that is on trial. Everyone else have their trial for eternal life after they have been resurrected, during the 1,000 years rule by Christ - it will be their belief and obedience that will be on trial. It is not a waste of resurrection power, it's God's plan of salvation for the majority of mankind!

 

[keithr]

Perhaps one has not read and understood this passage/verse: -

Ezekiel 34:17: - 17 'And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: "Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats.​

I think you are taking the verse out of context and coming to a wrong interpretation. It's part of a passage where God is condemning the religious leaders of Israel for not correctly teaching the people, and prophesying that he will restore the nation of Israel and judge between them, and choose new leaders. It is not a judgement for eternal life or death. Here's more of the context:

2) “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy, and tell them, even the shepherds, ‘Thus says the Lord Yahweh: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Shouldn’t the shepherds feed the sheep?

12) As a shepherd seeks out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered abroad, so I will seek out my sheep. I will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
13) I will bring them out from the peoples, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them into their own land. I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the watercourses, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14) I will feed them with good pasture; and their fold will be on the mountains of the height of Israel. There they will lie down in a good fold. They will feed on fat pasture on the mountains of Israel.
15) I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I will cause them to lie down,” says the Lord Yahweh.
16) “I will seek that which was lost, and will bring back that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong. I will feed them in justice.”’

God goes on to say (to the religious leaders):

18) Does it seem a small thing to you to have fed on the good pasture, but you must tread down with your feet the residue of your pasture? And to have drunk of the clear waters, but must you foul the residue with your feet?
19) As for my sheep, they eat that which you have trodden with your feet, and they drink that which you have fouled with your feet.’
20) “Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh to them: ‘Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat sheep [religious leaders] and the lean sheep [those taught by the leaders].
21) Because you thrust with side and with shoulder, and push all the diseased with your horns, until you have scattered them abroad;
22) therefore I will save my flock, and they will no more be a prey. I will judge between sheep and sheep.
23) I will set up one shepherd over them, and he will feed them, even my servant David. He will feed them, and he will be their shepherd.
24) I, Yahweh, will be their God, and my servant David prince among them. I, Yahweh, have spoken it.

He is saying that eventually the resurrected David will be the prince of Israel, for evermore. (I don't believe this is talking about Jesus, because Jesus is king of kings, not a prince of Israel.) The following verses also confirm this is talking about the time after the resurrection and the establishment of God's kingdom on the earth.

25) “‘I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause evil animals to cease out of the land. They will dwell securely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.
26) I will make them and the places around my hill a blessing. I will cause the shower to come down in its season. There will be showers of blessing.
27) The tree of the field will yield its fruit, and the earth will yield its increase, and they will be secure in their land. Then they will know that I am Yahweh, when I have broken the bars of their yoke, and have delivered them out of the hand of those who made slaves of them.
28) They will no more be a prey to the nations, neither will the animals of the earth devour them; but they will dwell securely, and no one will make them afraid.
29) I will raise up to them a plantation for renown, and they will no more be consumed with famine in the land, and not bear the shame of the nations any more.
30) They will know that I, Yahweh, their God am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, says the Lord Yahweh.
31) You my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are men, and I am your God,’ says the Lord Yahweh.”

Perhaps the context of the English translation of Genesis 2:17 verse is wrong and gives the wrong impression as to what it is meant in the Hebrew text.

For me my money is on, 'if you sin, "then you will die the second death."' rather that, 'if you sin, "then you will surely die."'

Nope, Adam and Eve definitely died! The KJV footnote says, "dying thou shalt die", likewise the Literal Standard version says, "dying you die". The second death is only ever referred to as such in the book of Revelation, when referring to the punishment of those judged unworthy of eternal life, which is that they will die again and will remain dead for ever. Satan's lie was "You won’t really die" (Gen 3:4) - don't believe him! Everyone dies, because of sin. The good news is that because of Jesus' sacrifice of his life that we all are redeemed and get a second chance for eternal life.

At too many funerals, people are told that the "person," who is in the coffin, has gone up into heaven to be with the Lord, but the reality is that when people die, they wait for the time of their resurrection

That's correct. They rest in an unconcious state.

when it will be determined whether or not they are righteous and can actually enter into eternity with the Lord.

But that is missing the details that Jesus tells us in the book of Revelation, which is that Christians will be resurrected as spirit beings and will be immortal, and that the rest of mankind will be resurrected to human life and will spend about 1,000 years being taught and restored to human perfection, and then there will be a final test and judgement for them to determine whether they are fit for eternal life. Those who are not will die (a second death), and never live again.

 

[Wrangler]

What was incorrect was your idea that "the damned are only resurrected to be punished", that all non-Christians are restored to life only to then be executed. Whereas what the passage is saying is that everyone that is resurrected will live for about one thousand years

I have no idea where you get this from. The text in question merely talks about the dragon being chained for that long, not resurrected people living a millennia before second death.

 

[Jay Ross]

But that is missing the details that Jesus tells us in the book of Revelation, which is that Christians will be resurrected as spirit beings and will be immortal, and that the rest of mankind will be resurrected to human life and will spend about 1,000 years being taught and restored to human perfection, and then there will be a final test and judgement for them to determine whether they are fit for eternal life. Those who are not will die (a second death), and never live again.

Perhaps I missed the verses that tells us this glorious prophecy. Would you mind putting the timeline for this outcome on paper so that others can understand how you have arrived at this conclusion, with the biblical references to confirm your point of view.

 

[keithr]

I have no idea where you get this from. The text in question merely talks about the dragon being chained for that long, not resurrected people living a millennia before second death.

I have provided lots of Bible quotes and references, so I don't understand why you have "no idea" where I get it from. It is mainly from Revelation 20. I shouldn't need to repeat it, but I don't mind doing so:

(a) Satan is bound at the beginning of the 1,000 years, so that he can no longer deceive mankind, not until the end of the 1,000 years when he will be freed for a short while. Rev 20:1-3.

1) I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2) He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years,
3) and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were finished. After this, he must be freed for a short time.​

(b) We know from the early part of Revelation that the Christians are at this time resurrected and in heaven, already having eternal life. They rule with Jesus for the 1,000 years. Rev 20:4-6.

4) I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. ... They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5) This is the first resurrection.
6) Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.​

(c) The rest of mankind are those that are being ruled over, who are still considered dead because they have not yet had their trial and judgement for eternal life. They are resurrected at the beginning of the 1,000 years (the second resurrection). Rev 20:5.

5) The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished.​

(d) We Christians only have this relatively short lifetime to make our calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10). This is the "narrow gate" way, that Jesus likens it to (Matthew 7:13-14), a more difficult way compared to the easier way for the rest of mankind, who have up to 1,000 years and no opposition and deceptions from Satan. Isaiah describes this easier way for the ransomed mankind during the 1,000 years period in Isaiah 35 (MKJV):

4) Say to those of a hasty heart, Be strong, fear not; behold, your God will come with vengeance, with the full dealing of God. He will come and save you.
5) Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
6) Then the lame shall leap like a deer, and the tongue of the dumb shall sing; for in the wilderness waters shall break out, and streams in the desert.
7) And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land shall become springs of water in the home of jackals, in its lair, and a place for the reed and rush.
8) And a highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called, The Way of Holiness. The unclean shall not pass over it. But He shall be with them; the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err in it.
9) No lion shall be there, nor any beast of prey shall go up on it; it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there.
10) And the ransomed of Jehovah shall return and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy on their heads; they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
​

(e) At the end of the 1,000 years Satan is released to provide a final test for the now restored human race. Some people are deceived and follow Satan. Rev 20:7-9.

7) And after the thousand years, Satan will be released from his prison,
8) and he will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war; the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9) They went up over the width of the earth, and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city.​

(f) God intervenes to save the holy ones, those remaining obedient to God. Rev 20:9.

9) ... Fire came down out of heaven from God and devoured them.​

(g) Satan is finally destroyed. Rev 20:10.

10) The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

(h) Finally mankind is judged, based on what they did during this 1,000 year period.

11) I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them.
12) I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13) The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works.​

(i) Anyone judged not worthy of eternal life is destroyed. There will be no more death, so everyone from that point on wil have eternal life. Rev 20:14-15.

14) Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

"Yahweh preserves all those who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy" (Psalm 145:20).​