Who Is "the Restrainer" In 2 Thess. 2:6-7

[Eoreris]

Why I thought you would never ask!

The called anti christ must full fill these things - A- be so deceptive that the Church falls for him anyway as they see no hope of future for their family if things go on like they are..
1 He must speak great things - Both Daniel and Revelation makes this clear several times.. - such as "Let,s make us great again" He might say something like that...
2 He will be one who has never (Repented) But say's he will if he ever does something wrong - Which is blasphemy as (Only) Jesus had no need to repent.. Thus with this alone he makes himself out as a messiah or god sitting in a temple of God- Which (by the way) he has already done with top name preachers praying over him on TV in a church and (Not) to get him to repent but instead to (Anoint him)
3 His name must be a (Name of blashphemy) He has this.. His first name by the dictionary means (World rule) Only Christ will be the World rule and wonderful counselor. Thus this name technically full fills this by (Logic) and (It is what it is and means what it means) -Note - The first beast first name is simular but starts with an (R) and he was the 2nd king and is the (one) who.s spirit (Comes up from the abyss) to enter into the 2nd beast.. His name adds up to 666 letters if you add (All) the kings of this nation's letters of their names together including adding any (Jr) letters (Full official names.. This 2nd king's blasphemy is to start the ball rolling with making it known that the World should unite in case of an alien threat invasion that the World would come together to overcome it.. His dead soul will enter into the 8th king and direct him like a puppet to make a 10 nation coalition to fight this coming threat.
4 He will win his throne by a (Small) hardcore people that will put him over the top that never give up.. These are rugged individual people that most have never voted and they are types that never answer and participate in phone election polls
5 He will be (NOT) receive the (HONOR) of this throne by his companions.. They will say he is not worthy of the position.. Some will make fools of themselves by not endorsing him, others will (Hold their nose) and vote for him but make a scene.
6 He will be (Wondered) about.. This man will be the topic of wonder as the media has never seen anyone like this or can figure him out. He will be the biggest reality show the World has ever seen.
7 His (Seat) - his hometown (pad) you might say will be in the center of the Mystery babylon (Greatest city on Earth) Economically and surrounded by water and large cargo ship traffic from all over the World without end .
8 And finally - He will be an (Eighth king) after a succession of 7 blasphemous ones before him that (start) this blasphemous 7 head countdown.. And the (7th) one will only rule a (Short space) just before he (The eighth) takes the throne.. This 7th king (it says clearly) (Must) continue a short space.. Meaning he (must by duty) take over and continue the 6th king's term (The one who reigns now) and finish it out as the 6th king will not finish his term. Each one of these 7 kings have blasphemed God in one way or another.. For instance the (5th one) celebrated a big war victory on a ship he landed on with a speech.. His last words at the end of his speech quoted Isaiah "The captives are set free" -- Just so you understand what a blasphemy is in God's hearing is.. This 5th king ended his speech with that.. He did not mention that one day Jesus christ 2nd coming will full fill this scripture and this (his war victory) is an example ... NO! - he made it sound like (HE) full filled this holy of holiest verses. God (Will not stand) for these blasphemous kings that do not give him (By name) the glory because of their political correctness. There are also only 7 mountain ranges in this nation the woman sits on..

The 2 witnesses will (Entice) this beast and make his city, his precious buildings to fall.. When they are out of his way (He kills them) this man will enter into his own wrath madness and the people (TOO LATE) will see him revealed

 

[michaelvpardo]

Why I thought you would never ask!

The called anti christ must full fill these things - A- be so deceptive that the Church falls for him anyway as they see no hope of future for their family if things go on like they are..


The 2 witnesses will (Entice) this beast and make his city, his precious buildings to fall.. When they are out of his way (He kills them) this man will enter into his own wrath madness and the people (TOO LATE) will see him revealed

Well, you may be right, but I was pretty sure that Ronald Reagan was the anti-Christ back during his administration (of course, this was also before I received Christ by faith): He professed Christ, but never even attempted (to my knowledge) to give any explanation to the church for divorcing his first wife. Some people wouldn't consider this a big deal since the divorce rate in the church is about the same as outside of it, but the public appearance of his action was that he did this to keep working during the McCarthy era, when the Senator's committee was pressuring Hollywood to blacklist communists and communist sympathizers (which included Reagan's first wife.) Reagan, having been a former actor, was an eloquent speaker who made grandiose speeches implying that America's citizens were the light of the world. He presented himself as the humble leader of a great nation serving God and preserving justice and freedom, while at the same time he seemed to have no problem approving illegal military and intelligence operations aimed at toppling other governments, and clearing the way for American business interests. He was even shot in the head and made a full recovery to the amazement of the world. But here we are just the same.
I don't trust Donald Trump, but I already know that Hillary Clinton is a criminal and the scripture tells us that according to God, it isn't fitting for a woman to have authority over men so in my mind Trump is a better choice, though I'd prefer a reasonable third option. A lot of people thought that Barak Obama is the anti-Christ, but he never seemed sharp enough to me and ideologues are typically too blind to reality to have effective control over anything. While I believe that ambition will be a driving force for the man of sin, you won't find a single politician in the United States that isn't driven to some extent by ambition.
Again, you may be right but even if you are, no man can prevent the rise to power of the anti-Christ and no man will be able to defeat or destroy him except the Son of God when He returns in glory. I actually hope that you're right as this would mean that Christ's return could be expected some time within the next 15 years and His return could never be too soon. Of course, you also need to consider that Donald Trump's belief that he isn't guilty of anything (if that's the case) is a common belief of a large part of unredeemed humanity. In any case, time will tell, and the revealing of the man of sin is something which must occur before the whole of God's congregation, since everyone except the elect will be deceived.

 

[Phoneman777]

Why I thought you would never ask!

The called anti christ must full fill these things - A- be so deceptive that the Church falls for him anyway as they see no hope of future for their family if things go on like they are..
1 He must speak great things - Both Daniel and Revelation makes this clear several times.. - such as "Let,s make us great again" He might say something like that...

You do realize that the Bible itself actually give us a definition of "great things and blasphemies" which should be used to interpret what kind of words the Antichrist will speak, right?

Luke 5:21 KJV and John 10:33 KJV.

Why opt for an interpretation of the prophetic symbol of "blasphemy" which implies a 2016 campaign slogan, rather than what Matthew and John, "holy men who spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost", said under inspiration?

 

[Eoreris]

Yes, Reagan was a great leader, My commander in chief at the time we went from overflowing toilets and no hot water -to- a fine working military because of him.. The thing that set's him out is his speeches to the United nations.. He was the only super power leader to call on World unity if an outside alien threat came to Earth.. It clearly says that this (King.s spirit) will come up from the dead and enter into a willing host- the 8th king

Counting each official letter of each and all US presidents and adding them all together including (Jr) surnames.
This is a real counting of something than the usual to reach (A mans name)

1 George Washington ------------------------------------16
2 John Adams--------------------------------------------09
3 Thomas Jefferson--------------------------------------15
4 James Madison-----------------------------------------12
5 James Monroe------------------------------------------11
6 John Quincy Adams-------------------------------------15
7 Andrew Jackson----------------------------------------13
8 Martin Van Buren--------------------------------------14
9 William Henry Harrison--------------------------------20
10 John Tyler-------------------------------------------09
11 James Knox Polk--------------------------------------13
12 Zachary Taylor---------------------------------------13
13 Millard Fillmore-------------------------------------15
14 Franklin Pierce--------------------------------------14
15 James Buchanan---------------------------------------13
16 Abraham Lincoln--------------------------------------14
17 Andrew Johnson---------------------------------------13
18 Ulysses Simpson Grant--------------------------------19
19 Rutherford Birchard Hayes----------------------------23
20 James Abram Garfield---------------------------------18
21 Chester Alan Arthur----------------------------------17
22 Stephen Grover Cleveland-----------------------------22
23 Benjamin Harrison------------------------------------16
24 Stephen Grover Cleveland-----------------------------22
25 William McKinley Jr----------------------------------17
26 Theodore Roosevelt Jr--------------------------------19
27 William Howard Taft----------------------------------17
28 Thomas Woodrow Wilson--------------------------------19
29 Warren Gamaliel Harding------------------------------21
30 John Calvin Coolidge Jr------------------------------20
31 Herbert Clark Hoover---------------------------------18
32 Franklin Delano Roosevelt----------------------------23
33 Harry S Truman---------------------------------------12
34 David Dwight Eisenhower------------------------------21
35 John Fitzgerald Kennedy------------------------------21
36 Lyndon Baines Johnson--------------------------------19
37 Richard Milhous Nixon--------------------------------19
38 Gerald Rudolph Ford Jr-------------------------------19
39 James Earl Carter Jr---------------------------------17
40 Ronald Wilson Reagan+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++18 = Grand total of letters counted (Ronald Wilson Reagan) =(Six hundred and sixty six)

As all must live a regular life on earth so does the morning star.. This was Reagan that lived a blessed life.. but with a few clues as to how he would try and do something if an alien threat came.. And the only alien threat coming for real is Jesus Christ

Ronald Reagan's speeches about an alien threat are below. Ronald Reagan is the only World power King (President) ever to make a claim that all nations should come together in the face of an outside alien threat. Though he said no words in his speeches that all nations should fight it with armies just calling it a (Threat) is a blasphemy to Christ. As Christ will soon come from the sky with his saints(Coming before him) in many chariots to war with the beast and his coalition armies. The beast fools the World to make them believe that this is an actual invasion of aliens from some other planet. The people of Earth are easily fooled enough to believe it as Christ return (Will not be recognized)--- Yes It will not be bearded men in sandals floating down on clouds shooting lightning bolts. And the Beast also will not be recognized.. It just says the majority will (Wonder) when they see him.. That just means they will not know but are in wonder of him.

Reagan---UN speech
"... when you stop to think that we're all God's children, wherever we may live in the world, I couldn't help but say to him, just think how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries and we would find out once and for all that we really are all human beings here on this earth together"


"In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world"

n 1988, President Ronald Reagan addressed the General Assembly of the United Nations. The speech has become known as his famous Disarmament speech.

In this address, he postulated upon his "fantasy" of an alien species, from outside this world, invading Earth. Reagan thought that this would unite all humanity and tear down national borders. He also said that an alien force is already amongst us. Hear the audio portion of this speech above.

If this were not remarkable itself, look at this. Before he gave the address, his speech writer, Rhett Dawson, removed his comments from Mr. Reagan's draft.

Reagan insisted that he replace it.


Notice he said "An alien force is already amongst us" That is (you) if you are a son of God. Remember Satan is extreme smart with military strategy.. and he will fool everybody exept the elect. The elect is (Small) so expect masses to be fooled. You will see the whole end unfold without anybody having a clue of what is going on but (You)





Revelation tells of this event-- The beast (comes up) from the abyss (This means he must be DEAD first--) and his soul posseses an 8th king. The alien threat comes-- Christ and his saints ( yes it will be seen as UFO's ) to the masses.. not bible bearded men coming on clouds but as balls of light, crafts.. yes aliens invading. A coalition of 10 nations are formed by the (beast) to fight it (Not knowing this is actualy the Lord 2nd coming) They think it really is actually aliens from another planet (Like the movies) and so does most of the public. The coalition of the United States and 10 Nations gather together at Christ (Landing spot) but they are defeated by (Fire from his mouth) . The surviving remnant of the 10 nations armies are angry about it all and go forth in anger to destroy Babylon (New York) They will pillage and destroy and make their way out but the Lord will catch them and destroy all of them in the end thus cutting all things short so none of his 144000 elect will be harmed.


Revelation
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
[11] And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
1 Carter
2 Reagan
3 Bush
4 Clinton
5 Bush
6 Obama (The one (who is) now) - his blasphemy is calling the Haiti earthquake a (Cruel act) Who would say that to God,s face?
7 Biden (Takes over shortly- something happens to Obama does not finish his 2nd term)
8 Trump - The final beast with Reagan's spirit up from the abyss possesing him

9 It is over
(HE (MUST) CONTINUE A SHORT SPACE-MEANING IT IS HIS (DUTY) TO DO SO-- THIS IS A CONTINUEING KING PRESIDENT-(BIDEN) MEANING HE CONTINUES OUT THE 6TH KINGS REIGHN (OBAMA)

 

[LambOfChrist]

Hi guys, gals?
Thought I could put a few sense in here.
I started reading this post thinking I would have something to pay but soon realized it is 19 pages long and I don't have time to read it all. So I jumped to the last page and found that the thread has been high-jacked.
Well that happens in long threads.
So first of all I will address that original topic.
2nd Thess 2 reveals 2 raptures. Notice in verse 7-8 the wicked one CANNOT be revealed until he who restrains or lets is taken out of the way. But if you backup to verse 2-3 we see that the gathering of the saints will not happen until the wicked one is revealed first. Check this out before you reply. Remember, we could be wrong about what we have been convinced of so we must weigh the scriptures thoroughly.
So seeing as what I have just stated is scriptural there must be 2 raptures, not one. If you disagree please read those verses again.
He who lets is the HOLY GHOST. He will never force himself on anyone. But through the prayers of the HOLY GHOST filled believers the wicked one is restrained and cannot sit in the temple.
It was pointed out on page one of this thread by Eric E Stahl that when the HOLY GHOST leaves this earth He will take every Spirit filled believer with Him. This cannot be argued, although there are millions of believers that are not Spirit filled and who walk not in the ways of our Lord. These the HOLY GHOST cannot take simply because He is not in them. This will be a wake-up call to all believers who have denied the working of the HOLY GHOST in this age. Those taken will be kept from the hour of temptation that comes upon the children of disobedience. They have been disobedient in that they did not believe the bible but rather their teachers. Many of these are living in ways not honorable to God. They know it in their hearts but have chosen to follow a false way that gratifies their flesh.

Is there a second witness in scripture to this understanding of 2 raptures? YES!

The child of Revelation 12. This child cannot be Jesus simply because Jesus was already raptured 40 some years before John received the testimony of Jesus. AND the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns did not exist back then, AND the beast only exists for 42 months at the end of the age. It says this child will rule with a rod of iron, yes, but Rev 2 tells us that those who overcome Jezebel will receive a rod of iron just as Jesus received from his Father. AND they will receive the Morning Star. Notice in 2nd Peter 1:19 the Morning Star is given to those who study prophecy as light that shines in a dark place until the day dawns and the Morning Star arises in their hearts. I feel sorry for those who refuse to study prophecy or give up the search. Without the Morning Star they MAY not go with the child.

The rapture of the (what many call) tribulation saints occurs at the last (2nd Corr 15:51-52) great (Matt 24:31) 7th (Rev 11:15) trumpet. They have washed their garments in the blood of the Lamb finally. These likely include the 144000 Israelis but also include saved gentiles. Their rapture takes place 1335 days after the abomination is set up, according to Daniel 12:12. Rev 12:17 reveals another group of believers who stand against the dragon and are martyred for their testimony of Jesus and keeping the commandments of God. Some preach that the Christians are not in the final 7 years because they are not mentioned after Rev 4 when a voice LIKE a trumpet sounds and calls JOHN up in the SPIRIT. I guess they never red Rev 12:17.

Most of the church today does not understand that we might very well be in the last 7 years as we speak. They have believed the invisible pre-tribulation rapture lie and therefore can't see an existing covenant. We have been fed the lie that there will be a 7 year peace treaty. Ezekiel in the first 7 chapters tells us that they will cry peace but there will be no peace. No where in Daniel does it mention a peace treaty. It is a covenant or agreement. That is it and simple. It has a 7 year time table so we should be able to recognize it, and it is made by the prince of the people who destroyed the temple who is to come.

The roman soldiers destroyed the temple so this prince, not king, must be related to Rome in some way. Any other covenant is a false flag. On Jan 1st 2007 Jovier Solana went into his office with no fan fair and put his signature on the EPI, European Partnership Instrument. This 7 years expired on Dec 31, 2013 with no further prophecy being fulfilled. However, it was renewed the next day with stronger language pertaining to a Palestinian State with Jerusalem as it's shared capital with Israel. Since then ISIS has moved rapidly across the Middle East and could be the King of the North of Daniel 11 the way it is shaping up.

Other indicators that this might be the covenant of Daniel are the assignment of Glick. He is one of the strongest proponents for the 3rd temple. The temple is ready to build. All of the furnishings, trumpets, harps, etc... are ready. A red heifer is apparently ready. All that is needed is a command. A study of Ezekiel and Chronicles reveals that the temple does not belong where the rock is but beside it to the east. In Chronicle Solomon was told to buy Jebus' threshing floor. Can you picture an ox threshing grain where the rock sits? Ezekiel tells us that the door to the temple is in line with the eastern gate, (Gate Beautiful) where the prince must enter. These prove that the temple does not belong where the rock sits. They just have to realize this and the temple can go ahead. Soon, very soon.

Now concerning the issues written in the posts above on this page;
There are more than one individual spoken of in Daniel and it may be that none of these are the anti Christ. First, the little horn. He is definitely a Muslim because he comes out of one of the regions that the 4 generals of Alexander the Great ruled. These are all Muslim today, case closed. Then there is the prince of the covenant. He is somehow related to Rome. Well Jovier Solana was the High Representative of the EU when he signed the covenant. The next High Representative who strengthened the covenant was a woman and still reigns today. The King of the North of Daniel 11 rises to power in Syria as many of these prophecies have already been fulfilled. Of these only the little horn could be the anti-Christ, though I am not convinced that the real Anti Christ is not the Pope. He is definitely ANTI-CHRIST. However, he also could be called a false prophet. Scripture tells us an anti Christ is someone who came into the church but left the church because he did not belong. The fact that the Vatican claims to be Christian when they worship Lucifer as the father of Jesus makes them fit the requirements of an anti-Christ.

Now concerning the abyss, I have studied this issue with an understanding of a hollow earth and am convinced that the beast that finally rises to take control in the final 5 months literally comes out of the hollow earth. The bottomless pit is literal and is at the North Pole. It is flooded with the Arctic Ocean though at low tide in summer months when the earth is closest to the sun, this hole may appear as the waters are drawn away from the poles. When you read in Rev 9 about the king of the abyss you will find a star hits and has the key to the pit. If you look at Rev 8 you will find that the star knocks the earth spinning faster by 1/3. This is evidenced by verse 12 where we see 1/3 of the sun, moon and stars smitten SO THAT 1/3 of the day night and light shine not. Isaiah 13 9-13 reveals that the earth will be moved out of its place on that day. Isaiah 14 tells us it will sway like a drunkard.

Another proof that this is not the same beast is that the beast in Rev 13 causes everyone to receive a mark while the king from the pit stings all those who receive the mark. This king once was, is not but is and will ascend from the pit. That scripture is perplexing until you understand it is literal. He was out here in Israel, he is not because somehow he went inside the hollow earth and rose to be king there. So though he IS NOT here he IS there. And will come out when the star hits out here. Picture a hollow earth with a center sun. Move the earth by hitting it with a huge asteroid and the center sun inside will come crashing down inside putting the light out in the beasts kingdom. He has no choice but to come out here and attempt to take over. He goes to Israel because he came from Israel. He has lived for 2000 years inside. Remember that before the flood under a protected atmosphere they lived up to just under 1000 years? It is not hard to understand the possibility of longer life inside an earth where you have no ultra violet rays from the sun. The center sun does not produce such waves.

I will let you chew on this for a while. I have heard all of the arguments against a hollow earth and see no sound reason to believe them ahead of scripture. There is always a way to give reason they could be wrong. I personally believe scripture ahead of so called true science.

 

[n2thelight]

Yes, Reagan was a great leader, My commander in chief at the time we went from overflowing toilets and no hot water -to- a fine working military because of him.. The thing that set's him out is his speeches to the United nations.. He was the only super power leader to call on World unity if an outside alien threat came to Earth.. It clearly says that this (King.s spirit) will come up from the dead and enter into a willing host- the 8th king

Counting each official letter of each and all US presidents and adding them all together including (Jr) surnames.
This is a real counting of something than the usual to reach (A mans name)

1 George Washington ------------------------------------16
2 John Adams--------------------------------------------09
3 Thomas Jefferson--------------------------------------15
4 James Madison-----------------------------------------12
5 James Monroe------------------------------------------11
6 John Quincy Adams-------------------------------------15
7 Andrew Jackson----------------------------------------13
8 Martin Van Buren--------------------------------------14
9 William Henry Harrison--------------------------------20
10 John Tyler-------------------------------------------09
11 James Knox Polk--------------------------------------13
12 Zachary Taylor---------------------------------------13
13 Millard Fillmore-------------------------------------15
14 Franklin Pierce--------------------------------------14
15 James Buchanan---------------------------------------13
16 Abraham Lincoln--------------------------------------14
17 Andrew Johnson---------------------------------------13
18 Ulysses Simpson Grant--------------------------------19
19 Rutherford Birchard Hayes----------------------------23
20 James Abram Garfield---------------------------------18
21 Chester Alan Arthur----------------------------------17
22 Stephen Grover Cleveland-----------------------------22
23 Benjamin Harrison------------------------------------16
24 Stephen Grover Cleveland-----------------------------22
25 William McKinley Jr----------------------------------17
26 Theodore Roosevelt Jr--------------------------------19
27 William Howard Taft----------------------------------17
28 Thomas Woodrow Wilson--------------------------------19
29 Warren Gamaliel Harding------------------------------21
30 John Calvin Coolidge Jr------------------------------20
31 Herbert Clark Hoover---------------------------------18
32 Franklin Delano Roosevelt----------------------------23
33 Harry S Truman---------------------------------------12
34 David Dwight Eisenhower------------------------------21
35 John Fitzgerald Kennedy------------------------------21
36 Lyndon Baines Johnson--------------------------------19
37 Richard Milhous Nixon--------------------------------19
38 Gerald Rudolph Ford Jr-------------------------------19
39 James Earl Carter Jr---------------------------------17
40 Ronald Wilson Reagan+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++18 = Grand total of letters counted (Ronald Wilson Reagan) =(Six hundred and sixty six)

As all must live a regular life on earth so does the morning star.. This was Reagan that lived a blessed life.. but with a few clues as to how he would try and do something if an alien threat came.. And the only alien threat coming for real is Jesus Christ

Ronald Reagan's speeches about an alien threat are below. Ronald Reagan is the only World power King (President) ever to make a claim that all nations should come together in the face of an outside alien threat. Though he said no words in his speeches that all nations should fight it with armies just calling it a (Threat) is a blasphemy to Christ. As Christ will soon come from the sky with his saints(Coming before him) in many chariots to war with the beast and his coalition armies. The beast fools the World to make them believe that this is an actual invasion of aliens from some other planet. The people of Earth are easily fooled enough to believe it as Christ return (Will not be recognized)--- Yes It will not be bearded men in sandals floating down on clouds shooting lightning bolts. And the Beast also will not be recognized.. It just says the majority will (Wonder) when they see him.. That just means they will not know but are in wonder of him.

Reagan---UN speech
"... when you stop to think that we're all God's children, wherever we may live in the world, I couldn't help but say to him, just think how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries and we would find out once and for all that we really are all human beings here on this earth together"


"In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world"

n 1988, President Ronald Reagan addressed the General Assembly of the United Nations. The speech has become known as his famous Disarmament speech.

In this address, he postulated upon his "fantasy" of an alien species, from outside this world, invading Earth. Reagan thought that this would unite all humanity and tear down national borders. He also said that an alien force is already amongst us. Hear the audio portion of this speech above.

If this were not remarkable itself, look at this. Before he gave the address, his speech writer, Rhett Dawson, removed his comments from Mr. Reagan's draft.

Reagan insisted that he replace it.


Notice he said "An alien force is already amongst us" That is (you) if you are a son of God. Remember Satan is extreme smart with military strategy.. and he will fool everybody exept the elect. The elect is (Small) so expect masses to be fooled. You will see the whole end unfold without anybody having a clue of what is going on but (You)





Revelation tells of this event-- The beast (comes up) from the abyss (This means he must be DEAD first--) and his soul posseses an 8th king. The alien threat comes-- Christ and his saints ( yes it will be seen as UFO's ) to the masses.. not bible bearded men coming on clouds but as balls of light, crafts.. yes aliens invading. A coalition of 10 nations are formed by the (beast) to fight it (Not knowing this is actualy the Lord 2nd coming) They think it really is actually aliens from another planet (Like the movies) and so does most of the public. The coalition of the United States and 10 Nations gather together at Christ (Landing spot) but they are defeated by (Fire from his mouth) . The surviving remnant of the 10 nations armies are angry about it all and go forth in anger to destroy Babylon (New York) They will pillage and destroy and make their way out but the Lord will catch them and destroy all of them in the end thus cutting all things short so none of his 144000 elect will be harmed.


Revelation
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
[11] And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
1 Carter
2 Reagan
3 Bush
4 Clinton
5 Bush
6 Obama (The one (who is) now) - his blasphemy is calling the Haiti earthquake a (Cruel act) Who would say that to God,s face?
7 Biden (Takes over shortly- something happens to Obama does not finish his 2nd term)
8 Trump - The final beast with Reagan's spirit up from the abyss possesing him

9 It is over
(HE (MUST) CONTINUE A SHORT SPACE-MEANING IT IS HIS (DUTY) TO DO SO-- THIS IS A CONTINUEING KING PRESIDENT-(BIDEN) MEANING HE CONTINUES OUT THE 6TH KINGS REIGHN (OBAMA)

satan represents all 8 kings

 

[michaelvpardo]

Its unlikely that we'll ever have any solid understanding of what the Apostle was referring to unless some additional source material is found from the first century that gives us insight into the more cryptic statements made by the Apostles. They were inclined to "talk around" certain people, places, and topics and we can only assume that this was to protect the holders of the letters from persecution. I can't believe that there are already 19 pages of posts with little more than educated guesses about "the restrainer" and how does all this speculation add to our understanding or more significantly, how does it help us to live sanctified lives? God bless you all for trying to arrive at an understanding and thanks for the entertainment.

 

[Phoneman777]

2nd Thess 2 reveals 2 raptures.

No, the only "rapture" in Scripture takes place at the sudden visible, audible, and experiential coming of Christ (2 Thessalonians 2) when He comes "as a thief", meaning "unexpectedly" just as the flood came upon the Antediluvians "unexpectedly" and fire and brimstone fell on Sodom and Gomorrah "unexpectedly", not "secretly and invisibly" as taught by Protestant believers of Jesuit Futurism.

The dead in Christ rise from the grave up to Jesus, followed by the living in Christ, as the world is exploding around them in utter destruction in this "day of the Lord (Jesus)" and "elements melt with fervent heat" and "the earth also and the works therein shall be burned up".

Please don't come with this idea that "the day of the Lord" and the "coming of Christ" are two diff days. Really? Both events are said to come upon the earth "as a thief", right? Do you all really think that if Jesus comes "as a thief" to sneak in and sneak out of town with the church, there will be any possibility of "Thief in the Night: Part 2" when even a fool would know, if Jesuit Futurism were true, to start counting down the so called "last seven years of tribulation" or the "last 3 1/2 years of tribulation", depending which fairy tale is believed.

Jesus comes, the righteous dead and living are caught up, the wicked drop dead and join the already dead wicked as the Earth is destroyed and only Satan and his angels are left to contemplate their rebellion for a thousand years, when New Jerusalem is moved from its current location to Earth, where the lost are resurrected, judged, and cast into the Lake of Fire to be totally annihilated, and the saints witness the creation of the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness".

 

[Phoneman777]

No more blind that you believing you can lose your salvation.


I believe in Prewrath rapture and the antichrist signing peace treaty at the beginning of the 70th week, and antichrist setting up abomination of desolation in the middle of the 70th week. If you have any questions, let me know. Reading is fun...

Prewrath Rapture of the Church by Marvin Rosenthal
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/prewra01.JPG

1. Antichrist signs peace treaty with Israel to begin the 70th week Isa 28:15 NIV, Isa 28:18 NIV, Isa 57:8-9 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, Rev 6:2 NIV, Rev 6:8 NIV.
2. The third temple (the holy place) is built Exo 26:33 NIV, Ez 40-48 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, 2 Thess 2:3-4 NIV..http://thewordonpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Ezekiels-Temple-Logos.png
3. The first 3.5 years are birth pains, the first four seals are open along with apostasy of Jews Dan 11:36-45 NIV, Matt 24:4-7, 2 Thess 2:3 NIV, Rev 6:1-8 NIV.
4. At the middle of the 70th week the abomination of desolation takes place in the holy place Exo 26:33 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, Dan 11:31 NIV, Dan 12:11 NIV, Matt 24:15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:3-4 NIV, Rev 13:14-15 NIV.
5. Michael the angel, the restrainer is removed here Dan 12:1 NIV, 2 Thess 2:6-12 NIV, Rev 12:6-12 NIV.
6. Immediately after the abomination of desolation the fifth seal is open and the Great Tribulation begins, man's rebellion against God Rev 6:9-11 NIV.
7. This is right around where the two witnesses make their appearance and prophesy for 1,260 days Mal 4:5 NIV, Rev 11:2-3 NIV.
8. The last 3.5 years of the 70th week now begins.
9. Then the Great Tribulation is cut short around the middle of the last 3.5 years Matt 24:22 NIV.
10. Immediately after the Great Tribulation ends cosmic disturbances occur before the Day of the Lord begins.
11. The 144,000 are then sealed before the rapture, so they can enter the Day of the Lord without harm Rev 7:2-4 NIV.
12. The rapture occurs at the seventh seal, after the Great Tribulation and at the beginning of the Day of the Lord Matt 25:31-46 NIV, Rev 7:14 NIV, Rev 8:1-5 NIV.
13. The Bema Seat of Christ is here Matt 16:27 NIV, Luke 14:14-15 NIV, 2 Cor 5:10 NIV, Rev 19:8-9 NIV, Rev 22:12 NIV.
14. The Feast/Marriage Supper of the Lamb is also here Luke 14:14-15 NIV, Rev 7:9 NIV, Rev 19:1 NIV, Rev 19:9 NIV.
15. Then begins the Day of the Lord, the start of God's wrath of trumpets. The 5th trumpet will also last five months Rev 9:5 NIV.
16. At the end of the 70th week the beast will kill the two witnesses, but after 3.5 days they will come alive Rev 11:7-12 NIV.
17. Very few people will be left after the 70th week is complete Zech 13:8-9 NIV.
18. Jesus landing on the Mount of Olives is here Zech 9:14-17 NIV, Zech 10:1-12 NIV, Zech 12:10-14 NIV, Zech 14:4 NIV, Mal 3:2-4 NIV, Matt 25:31-46 NIV, Rom 11:26-27 NIV, Jude 1:14-15 NIV, Rev 19:11-21 NIV.
19. After the 70th week is complete the bowl judgments begin for 30 days Dan 12:11 NIV, Zech 12:10-14 NIV.
20. Then the 45 days begin for cleansing of the Temple Dan 12:12 NIV, Zech 13:1-6 NIV.
21. After the 45 days are finished the 1,000 year millennium begins Isa 11:6-9 NIV, Isa 65:20 NIV, Rev 20:4-6 NIV.
22. Nonbelievers will also be a part of the 1,000 year millennium Zech 14:16-19 NIV.
23. After the 1,000 years are finished, the dead believers and nonbelievers that are left over will be judged Rev 20:11-15 NIV.
24. Then a New Heaven and a New Earth will appear making everything new Isa 65:17-25 NIV, Rev 21:1-8 NIV.
25. Lastly, Eden is restored in which we now live with Jesus Christ forever and ever. Amen Rev 22:1-5 NIV.

Side Note 1: The full seven years are never called "the tribulation period", rather the 70th week is the proper name to describe the seven years.

Side Note 2: The Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord are not the same event. The GT is man's rebellion against God, and the Day of the Lord is God's wrath against man. These two events are split in half in the last 3.5 years of the 70th week. The church will have to go through the first five seals and also the GT, but they will be raptured before the Day of the Lord begins, God's wrath of trumpets and bowls. The church will witness the signing of the peace treaty, the third temple built, the first four seals opening, the abomination of desolation, the two witnesses, the fifth seal opening, the GT of man's rebellion and the sixth seal of cosmic disturbances in the sun, moon and stars before they are raptured.

I've never read so much confusion in all my life! You are following textbook Jesuit Futurist theology, friend.

 

[Phoneman777]

Its unlikely that we'll ever have any solid understanding of what the Apostle was referring to unless some additional source material is found from the first century that gives us insight into the more cryptic statements made by the Apostles. They were inclined to "talk around" certain people, places, and topics and we can only assume that this was to protect the holders of the letters from persecution. I can't believe that there are already 19 pages of posts with little more than educated guesses about "the restrainer" and how does all this speculation add to our understanding or more significantly, how does it help us to live sanctified lives? God bless you all for trying to arrive at an understanding and thanks for the entertainment.

You mean, the writings of the ECF which say Paul told the church the Restrainer is Pagan Rome is insufficient?

 

[michaelvpardo]

You mean, the writings of the ECF which say Paul told the church the Restrainer is Pagan Rome is insufficient?

I've never heard of the ECF, and why would I consider some unknown source sufficient for anything?

 

[Phoneman777]

I've never heard of the ECF, and why would I consider some unknown source sufficient for anything?

ECF = "Early Church Fathers"...y'know, like Josephus, who's testimony about the real, literal existence of Jesus is invaluable to us in a time when even "conservative" politicians call Jesus a myth?

England's greatest Protestant prophecy teacher H. Grattan Guinness wrote this, and O how it applies to you:

5. The Fathers held that the Roman empire was the ” let” or hindrance, referred to by Paul in 2 Thessalonians, which kept back the manifestation of the ” man of sin” This point is of great importance. Paul distinctly tells us that he knew, and that the Thessalonians knew, what that hindrance was, and that it was then in existence. The early Church, through the writings of the Fathers, tells us what it knew upon the subject, and with remarkable unanimity affirms that this “let,” or hindrance, was the Roman empire as governed by the Caesars ; that while the Caesars held imperial power, it was impossible for the predicted antichrist to arise, and that on the fall of the Caesars he would arise. Here we have a point on which Paul affirms the existence of knowledge in the Christian Church. The early Church knew, he says, what this hindrance was. The early Church tells us what it did know upon the subject, and no one in these days can be in a position to contradict its testimony as to what Paul had, by word of mouth only, told the Thessalonians. It is a point on which ancient tradition alone can have any authority. Modern speculation is positively impertinent on such a subject.
​

See hat part about "no one in these days"? That means you and all other Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurists.

 

[michaelvpardo]

ECF = "Early Church Fathers"...y'know, like Josephus, who's testimony about the real, literal existence of Jesus is invaluable to us in a time when even "conservative" politicians call Jesus a myth?

England's greatest Protestant prophecy teacher H. Grattan Guinness wrote this, and O how it applies to you:

5. The Fathers held that the Roman empire was the ” let” or hindrance, referred to by Paul in 2 Thessalonians, which kept back the manifestation of the ” man of sin” This point is of great importance. Paul distinctly tells us that he knew, and that the Thessalonians knew, what that hindrance was, and that it was then in existence. The early Church, through the writings of the Fathers, tells us what it knew upon the subject, and with remarkable unanimity affirms that this “let,” or hindrance, was the Roman empire as governed by the Caesars ; that while the Caesars held imperial power, it was impossible for the predicted antichrist to arise, and that on the fall of the Caesars he would arise. Here we have a point on which Paul affirms the existence of knowledge in the Christian Church. The early Church knew, he says, what this hindrance was. The early Church tells us what it did know upon the subject, and no one in these days can be in a position to contradict its testimony as to what Paul had, by word of mouth only, told the Thessalonians. It is a point on which ancient tradition alone can have any authority. Modern speculation is positively impertinent on such a subject.
​

See hat part about "no one in these days"? That means you and all other Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurists.

If by Josephus, you're referring to Flavius Josephus, then you're confused. Flavius was his given Roman name as a historian to Caesar, but he was born a Levitical priest in Judah, lived off tithes, and only acknowledged Jesus as the Son of God, without ever being a disciple as far as the historical records are concerned. I've never read the early church fathers, but know that if they were sincere, then we received of the same Spirit and anointing that teaches us all things. I place my confidence in Christ, not men. Don't you?

 

[Randy Kluth]

You mean, the writings of the ECF which say Paul told the church the Restrainer is Pagan Rome is insufficient?

I agree that the Early Church had the view that the Roman Empire was the Restrainer and the Restraint of Antichrist's appearance. It is important to recognize that Paul was arguing that premature cultic Christian movements would come, but that Christ himself could not come because of not just 1, but 2, things:

1) Christ could not come for his Church before the Antichrist was revealed.
2) Christ could not come for his Church before the Antichrist was destroyed.

In fact, Paul's argument was that Christ's coming itself entailed the destruction of Antichrist, which in effect amounted to the coming of Christ for the Church. These things were synonymous, the coming of Christ for the Church and the coming of Christ to defeat the Antichrist. That was Paul's argument.

There would be preliminary false eschatological groups, proclaiming to be the "Coming of Christ," much like the Mormons or the JWs today. But the true coming of Christ would be, as Christ himself said, from the sky, ushering in the Kingdom of God and the destruction of the world system currently holding it in its grip.

I would add to this notion that the Roman Empire resisted the rise of Antichrist the *reason* for this understanding. It was, I think, because Daniel had predicted a 4th Great Kingdom on earth resisting the coming of Christ's Kingdom. Both Dan 2 and Dan 7 describe a series of 4 Kingdoms leading up to the coming of Christ's Kingdom.

The 4th Kingdom is thought to be the Roman Empire, which murdered Christ, the apostles, and many Christians. But Christ's Gospel in effect went from Israel to the Roman Empire, extending grace from the Jews to the Europeans. And this has been the result in history, the extension of Christian grace from Israel to European nations and even to all the world.

Until world civilization is converted to Christ or brought under the dominion of Christian law, world civilization remains resistant to the coming of Christ's Kingdom. Even Christian nations remain resistant to God's Kingdom because of the prevalence of sin in even Christian nations.

Daniel foresaw this 4th Kingdom breaking up, however, into 10 states. And it may be that Paul saw the Roman Empire resisting the coming of Christ's Kingdom until it was initially converted, and ultimately broken up into 10 dominant States.

Well, we've seen the fragmentation of the two halves of the old Roman Empire, East and West. And though the civilization continues in the form of European Civilization, East and West, we are now in a position to see the rise of Antichrist. Thanks for your thoughts on this.

 

[Phoneman777]

If by Josephus, you're referring to Flavius Josephus, then you're confused. Flavius was his given Roman name as a historian to Caesar, but he was born a Levitical priest in Judah, lived off tithes, and only acknowledged Jesus as the Son of God, without ever being a disciple as far as the historical records are concerned. I've never read the early church fathers, but know that if they were sincere, then we received of the same Spirit and anointing that teaches us all things. I place my confidence in Christ, not men. Don't you?

Everyone knows Josephus wasn't a Christian...what I mean is that he is "early" in church history and his historic account affords much evidence to the truth. This has major implication regarding the identity of the Antichrist.

Also "early", the ECFs testimony does the same. They provide insight to what was going on during the early period of the church, like that the church believed the Restrainer was not sonme agent of holiness, but was the Pagan Roman Empire. I have to agree with Guinness that we who live now are in no position to rewrite the history that is essentially set in stone by the ECFs regarding this issue.

Yes, I believe the Word of Jesus but I also believe our teachings must be consistent with history. For instance, there are those who would argue homosexuality was as acceptable to the church then as it is now, and we are right to provide historic evidence to the contrary in order to disprove such false ideas. Likewise, there are those who argue (without any basis whatsoever except from a desire to prop up Jesuit Futurist doctrine) that the Restrainer is an agent of holiness, but the historic evidence shows the ECFs were certain Paul taught the early church the Restrainer was the Pagan Roman Empire and they themselves believed that to be the case.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Everyone knows Josephus wasn't a Christian...what I mean is that he is "early" in church history and his historic account affords much evidence to the truth. This has major implication regarding the identity of the Antichrist.

Also "early", the ECFs testimony does the same. They provide insight to what was going on during the early period of the church, like that the church believed the Restrainer was not sonme agent of holiness, but was the Pagan Roman Empire. I have to agree with Guinness that we who live now are in no position to rewrite the history that is essentially set in stone by the ECFs regarding this issue.

Yes, I believe the Word of Jesus but I also believe our teachings must be consistent with history. For instance, there are those who would argue homosexuality was as acceptable to the church then as it is now, and we are right to provide historic evidence to the contrary in order to disprove such false ideas. Likewise, there are those who argue (without any basis whatsoever except from a desire to prop up Jesuit Futurist doctrine) that the Restrainer is an agent of holiness, but the historic evidence shows the ECFs were certain Paul taught the early church the Restrainer was the Pagan Roman Empire and they themselves believed that to be the case.

Josephus ' historic account of Christ is exactly one sentence, but He did have more to say about John the Baptist and an expectation among his contemporary brethren that the Son of God would be returning at the head of the Roman Legions in response to the Jewish rebellion against Rome, though there is no explicit explanation of why the Jews believed this prior to 70AD.

 

[Phoneman777]

I agree that the Early Church had the view that the Roman Empire was the Restrainer and the Restraint of Antichrist's appearance. It is important to recognize that Paul was arguing that premature cultic Christian movements would come, but that Christ himself could not come because of not just 1, but 2, things:

1) Christ could not come for his Church before the Antichrist was revealed.
2) Christ could not come for his Church before the Antichrist was destroyed.

In fact, Paul's argument was that Christ's coming itself entailed the destruction of Antichrist, which in effect amounted to the coming of Christ for the Church. These things were synonymous, the coming of Christ for the Church and the coming of Christ to defeat the Antichrist. That was Paul's argument.

There would be preliminary false eschatological groups, proclaiming to be the "Coming of Christ," much like the Mormons or the JWs today. But the true coming of Christ would be, as Christ himself said, from the sky, ushering in the Kingdom of God and the destruction of the world system currently holding it in its grip.

I would add to this notion that the Roman Empire resisted the rise of Antichrist the *reason* for this understanding. It was, I think, because Daniel had predicted a 4th Great Kingdom on earth resisting the coming of Christ's Kingdom. Both Dan 2 and Dan 7 describe a series of 4 Kingdoms leading up to the coming of Christ's Kingdom.

The 4th Kingdom is thought to be the Roman Empire, which murdered Christ, the apostles, and many Christians. But Christ's Gospel in effect went from Israel to the Roman Empire, extending grace from the Jews to the Europeans. And this has been the result in history, the extension of Christian grace from Israel to European nations and even to all the world.

Until world civilization is converted to Christ or brought under the dominion of Christian law, world civilization remains resistant to the coming of Christ's Kingdom. Even Christian nations remain resistant to God's Kingdom because of the prevalence of sin in even Christian nations.

Daniel foresaw this 4th Kingdom breaking up, however, into 10 states. And it may be that Paul saw the Roman Empire resisting the coming of Christ's Kingdom until it was initially converted, and ultimately broken up into 10 dominant States.

Well, we've seen the fragmentation of the two halves of the old Roman Empire, East and West. And though the civilization continues in the form of European Civilization, East and West, we are now in a position to see the rise of Antichrist. Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Thank you for acknowledging history, which some here seem unwilling to do. If I may impart to you Protestant Historicism's take on the issue:

It was universally understood among Protestants that the Restrainer was the Pagan Roman Empire which prevented the rise of the Papal Antichrist, because while the Caesars occupied the throne, the "man of sin" Papacy could not have ascended to supreme power. The reason, obviously, Paul refused to put down on paper what he claimed to have previously told the Thessalonians in person about the identity of the Restrainer was that if such a letter speaking about Pagan Rome being taken out of the way and the man of sin being revealed were to fall into the hands of the Roman authorities, Christianity would have been condemned as insurrectionist and swiftly wiped out before the ink had time to dry. So, he simply referred to Rome as "the Restrainer".

After the fall of Rome in 476 A.D. and the "seat of the Caesars" was vacated, the 10 resulting barbarian tribes which divided up the Roman fourth beast fought incessantly amongst each other until it was clear that the only solution was to have a common ruler preside over them...enter the papal PONTIFEX MAXIMUS - the "divine bridge builder" between heaven and earth - the same name used by the "divine" caesars was adopted by the newly crowned "divine" Pope who is "Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under veil of flesh". Even secular authorities recognized this, with people like Thomas Hobbes writing, "The Papacy is not other than the Ghost of the deceased Roman Empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof."

Thus, the when the Restrainer was taken out of the way the "man of sin" papal Antichrist ascended in 538 A.D. and began the 1,260 prophetic days (literal years) of tyranny. While even conservative estimates put the Christian victims of Roman Empire persecution only in the mere hundreds of thousands, perhaps (this is because the Empire preferred to leave bloodshed confined to its battlefields for the most part), the Papacy became the all time world champion, Satanically possessed, insane clown posse', supersonic enemy of Christ that prophecy predicted it to be: IT IS ESTIMATED THAT BETWEEN 50 AND 150 MILLION CHRISTIANS DIED AT THE HANDS OF "CHURCH" LEADERSHIP, thus fulfilling Daniel's word, "...and he shall wear out the saints of the Most High". Pagan Rome as the Restrainer is a key component of Protestant Historicism eschatology.

 

[Phoneman777]

Josephus ' historic account of Christ is exactly one sentence, but He did have more to say about John the Baptist and an expectation among his contemporary brethren that the Son of God would be returning at the head of the Roman Legions in response to the Jewish rebellion against Rome, though there is no explicit explanation of why the Jews believed this prior to 70AD.

Never heard that about John the Baptist..interesting. But, it's enough to know what Josephus said about Christ being real and about His death. My point is that we must not discount ancient authoritative sources of actual history simply because their account of history disrupts what we think about prophecy.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Thank you for acknowledging history, which some here seem unwilling to do. If I may impart to you Protestant Historicism's take on the issue:

It was universally understood among Protestants that the Restrainer was the Pagan Roman Empire which prevented the rise of the Papal Antichrist, because while the Caesars occupied the throne, the "man of sin" Papacy could not have ascended to supreme power. The reason, obviously, Paul refused to put down on paper what he claimed to have previously told the Thessalonians in person about the identity of the Restrainer was that if such a letter speaking about Pagan Rome being taken out of the way and the man of sin being revealed were to fall into the hands of the Roman authorities, Christianity would have been condemned as insurrectionist and swiftly wiped out before the ink had time to dry. So, he simply referred to Rome as "the Restrainer".

After the fall of Rome in 476 A.D. and the "seat of the Caesars" was vacated, the 10 resulting barbarian tribes which divided up the Roman fourth beast fought incessantly amongst each other until it was clear that the only solution was to have a common ruler preside over them...enter the papal PONTIFEX MAXIMUS - the "divine bridge builder" between heaven and earth - the same name used by the "divine" caesars was adopted by the newly crowned "divine" Pope who is "Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under veil of flesh". Even secular authorities recognized this, with people like Thomas Hobbes writing, "The Papacy is not other than the Ghost of the deceased Roman Empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof."

Thus, the when the Restrainer was taken out of the way the "man of sin" papal Antichrist ascended in 538 A.D. and began the 1,260 prophetic days (literal years) of tyranny. While even conservative estimates put the Christian victims of Roman Empire persecution only in the mere hundreds of thousands, perhaps (this is because the Empire preferred to leave bloodshed confined to its battlefields for the most part), the Papacy became the all time world champion, Satanically possessed, insane clown posse', supersonic enemy of Christ that prophecy predicted it to be: IT IS ESTIMATED THAT BETWEEN 50 AND 150 MILLION CHRISTIANS DIED AT THE HANDS OF "CHURCH" LEADERSHIP, thus fulfilling Daniel's word, "...and he shall wear out the saints of the Most High". Pagan Rome as the Restrainer is a key component of Protestant Historicism eschatology.

I'm not a protestant, but was raised as a Roman Catholic, abandoned that church at the age of 13 because of the tremendous hypocrisy I dealt with as a child, was born again at the age of 39, and have been taught by the Holy Spitit since then. I'm currently 65, and you're a presumptiously funny guy.

 

[Phoneman777]

I'm not a protestant, but was raised as a Roman Catholic, abandoned that church at the age of 13 because of the tremendous hypocrisy I dealt with as a child, was born again at the age of 39, and have been taught by the Holy Spitit since then. I'm currently 65, and you're a presumptiously funny guy.

Wait, you've abandoned the RCC but you're not a "protestant"? How's that possible? "Protestantism" at its core means "protest against the teachings of the RCC".

To split even finer hairs, the only true "protestant" recognized by the RCC is my denomination. From the RCC itself:

"Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of the one or the other of the two alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."​