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Who is the Whore of babylon

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Andrew Kind, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    But you do with all those pretty colours, Christ is not a cult is that really what you think of Him??
     
  2. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Not HIM - I speak of you and your cult. You know - aggressivechristianity.net??

    They're the ones with the "Generals" in charge . . .
     
  3. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    I have never seeing a man with such hate for the truth, you have nothing good to say, so you seek to tare down all that oppose you, just like your religion that forced so many to join at pain of death, you are your religion, so angry, something to do with this

    Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
    Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
    Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

    Christ is not a cult, and He certainly does not require any man to be a prt of any religion to follow Him this bit

    Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

    just another saul. murdering Gods children and delighting in it.
     
  4. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Why do you keep saying that Christ is not a cult??
    I never said He was. I said that YOUR cult is a cult.

    Anybody with half a brain and with ANY knowledge of Scripture can see that YOUR group over "aggressivechristianity.net" is nothing but a man-made cult. The fact that YOU keep referring to THEM as "Christ" pretty much seals this deal . . .
     
  5. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    I follow Christ so therefore you are calling Him a cult, why is it you hate those who follow Him that is what we are called to do, what has religion got to do with Jesus or the salvation of men. Im not going away this time BOL. i am tired of watching you murder Gods people, turning them away from Him. tired of your lies and hypocrisies, what I cant understand is how the "moderators" who are supposed to call them selves "christians: have allowed it to go on for so long. Do they not know that in the end they will be called into account, I guess they dont.

    HAve a lovely day.
     
  6. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense!! That is absolutely laughable. Why is there any onus on me to refute an idea that holds no water or credibility in the first place???
    Who pray tell me is this Peter who lived in the second century and wrote a "gospel"? Sounds to me like one of the many other forgeries and fakes written by Catholicism throughout the centuries to support her lies and false claims to power and authority. Like the myths that surround Saint" Patrick, who purportedly worked many miracles in Rome and rid Ireland of snakes. Like the Donation of Constantine, used for centuries to uphold Vatican civil authority. Like the altering of manuscripts and writings of the early church fathers eg letters of Justyn Martyr? or was it Ignatius of Antioch? to suit Catholic doctrine. No, I didn't bother to read this so-called gospel of Peter. If Christ didn't change the day of rest, then no-one else can, or did.
    The Bible is all we need to be safe in all faith and practice. Unless there is a "thus sayeth the Lord" changing the day of sacred and blessed fellowship with God and our fellow man from the 7th day to the 1st, then I reject it. Your so called church fathers and their apostate mutterings on the matter notwithstanding.
     
    gadar perets likes this.
  7. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    No - you don't follow Christ - you follow aggressivechristianity.net with all of their aberrant teachings and perverted doctrines.
    You follow the doctrines and precepts of "Generals" James and Deborah Green - NOT those of Christ and His 2000 year old Church.

    You site here and pontificate all day long about how "wrong" everybody else is - yet YOU follow a cult that was invented in 1980.
    Your hypocrisy is mind-boggling . . .
     
  8. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    The onus IS on you to show me an extrabiblical source that refutes the Lord's Day because I gave you an extrabiblical source that supports it.

    Here is another one. The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) is a FIRST CENTURY document written while MOST of the Apostles were still alive. It speaks of confessing your sins to the Church, the Eucharist, methods of Baptism, including pouring - and gathering for prayer and communion on "THE LORD'S DAY":
    "But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving"

    Not ONE Protestant scholar that I have ever read refutes the Didache as a "forgery" or "spurious" document.

    YOUR turn, Einstein . . .
     
  9. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    Here is the full quote from Didache 14 as presented at CHURCH FATHERS: The Didache.

    But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations.
    The verse being quoted in the last sentence above is Malachi 1:14;

    But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord [Adonay] a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen. KJV [brackets mine]
    Therefore, the "Lord" that is being referenced in the Didache is Yeshua's Father, Adonay YHWH. It is "YHWH's day" (the Sabbath Day) that is being spoken of, not our Lord Yeshua's day.

    Also, the Greek of Didache 14:1 reads, "kata kuriaken de kuriou" (literally "according to the Lord's of the Lord"). The Greek of Revelation 1:10 reads, "κυριακη ημερα" (Lord's day"). Since "ημερα" (day) is missing in the translation above, how can the word "day" be part of the translation?

    Now it is your turn to prove "Lord's day" in the Didache refers to Sunday.
    .
     
  10. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Scripture calls Sunday the Lords day. Every Christian historical writing since the beginning of Christianity calls Sunday the Lords day. Any claim otherwise began a short time ago, after the Reformation.

    Due to the birth and death of Jesus even the Jews do not need to observe the Sabbath, which is a ceremonial law. Soooo why do you, as a Christian, feel you need to observe the Sabbath (Saturday)?

    Curious Mary
     
  11. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    Untrue unless you read "Sunday" into those words. Reference please.
     
  12. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Oh you are so upset, raving on as usual, when will the hypocrisy and lies end, I guess one day when you find the truth.

    Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
    Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

    oh well another day of stuff..
     
  13. epostle

    epostle Active Member

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    You can make scripture say anything you want when you change the meaning of words, like "first day of the week."

    Isaiah 1:13 – God begins to reveal His displeasure with the Sabbath.

    Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus’ resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.

    Acts 20:7 – this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the “first day of the week.” Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.

    1 Cor. 16:2 – Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches “on the first day of the week,” which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.

    Col. 2:16-17 – Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says “let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath.”

    2 Thess. 2:15 – we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

    Heb. 4:8-9 – regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of “another day,” which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord’s resurrection, which was on Sunday.

    Heb. 7:12 – when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.

    Rev 1:10 – John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord’s day, the new day of rest in Christ.

    Matt. 16:19; 18:18 – whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday.

    Tradition / Church Fathers
    On the Lord’s own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks, but first confess your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure.”
    Didache, 14 (A.D. 90).

    “If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death–whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master.”
    Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 110).

    “The seventh day, therefore, is proclaimed a rest–abstraction from ills–preparing for the Primal Day,[The Lord’s Day] our true rest; which, in truth, is the first creation of light, in which all things are viewed and possessed. From this day the first wisdom and knowledge illuminate us. For the light of truth–a light true, casting no shadow, is the Spirit of God indivisibly divided to all, who are sanctified by faith, holding the place of a luminary, in order to the knowledge of real existences. By following Him, therefore, through our whole life, we become impossible; and this is to rest.”
    Clement of Alexandria, Stromata, 6:16 (A.D. 202).


    But gadar has nothing to do with the church of the first and second centuries.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  14. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    No problem.
    The Didache was written BY and FOR Trinitarian Christians.

    We believe that Yaweh is a TRINITY - therefore, that quote from Malachi is about Jesus.
     
  15. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Not "upset" at all.
    Just exposing YOUR allegiance to an online cult . . .
     
  16. epostle

    epostle Active Member

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    Jesus, being God, knew whether or not his Church would apostatize by changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. If Sabbatarians are correct that Christians are still obliged to keep Saturday as their day of corporate worship, isn’t it strange that Jesus underscored exactly the opposite by appearing to his disciples after his Resurrection nearly exclusively on Sunday?
     
  17. epostle

    epostle Active Member

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    After distorting the text and history to read what they want into the Bible, and thereby obtaining God's "blessing" on their hatred of the Catholic Church, some "Christians" ignore the only texts of Scripture which tells us about the religious leanings of the Antichrist. In St. John's letters (1 John 4, 2 John 1), he tells us that the spirit of the Antichrist denies the Incarnation (the Son of God becoming man) and thereby also the Trinity (the Father and the Spirit, too).

    THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST. There is not a single text in 2000 years, including the new Catechism of the Catholic Church, where the Catholic Church, her popes, her bishops, her official teachings, her saints, or her acknowledged ecclesiastical authors, deny the Word-made-flesh or the Blessed Trinity. Instead, all of Christianity owes the preservation of these Truths to the Catholic Church, whose great Councils formulated them and whose saints and popes have defended them to this day, often at the cost of martyrdom.
    ***********************
    The first 40 Popes were killed by pagan Romans. That is NEVER mentioned by Whore duh Babble-on lunatics.
     
  18. epostle

    epostle Active Member

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    We can name some of the martyrs because they were Catholic. You can't name a single one because you have divorced yourself from the early church. That's why you avoid the ECF, you have nothing to do with them. Do you reject the Council of Nicae too?

    THAT IS A LIE.
    The Lies of Dave Hunt #4
    Hunt states, "She [the Whore] is clothed in ‘purple and scarlet’ (verse 4), the colors of the Catholic clergy." He then cites the Catholic Encyclopedia to show that bishops wear certain purple vestments and cardinals wear certain red vestments.

    Hunt ignores the obvious symbolic meaning of the colors—purple for royalty and red for the blood of Christian martyrs. Instead, he is suddenly literal in his interpretation. He understood well enough that the woman symbolizes a city and that the fornication symbolizes something other than literal sex, but now he wants to assign the colors a literal, earthly fulfillment in a few vestments of certain Catholic clergy.

    Purple and red are not the dominant colors of Catholic clerical vestments. White is. All priests wear white (including bishops and cardinals when they are saying Mass)—even the pope does so.

    The purple and scarlet of the Whore are contrasted with the white of the New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ (Rev. 19:8). This is a problem for Hunt for three reasons:
    (a) we have already noted that the dominant color of Catholic clerical vestments is white, which would identify them with New Jerusalem if the color is taken literally;
    (b) the clothing of the Bride is given a symbolic interpretation ("the righteous acts of the saints;" 19:8); implying that the clothing of the Whore should also be given a symbolic meaning; and
    (c) the identification of the Bride as New Jerusalem (Rev. 3:12, 21:2, 10) suggests that the Whore may be old (apostate) Jerusalem—a contrast used elsewhere in Scripture (Gal. 4:25–26).

    Hunt ignores the liturgical meaning of purple and red in Catholic symbolism. Purple symbolizes repentance, and red honors the blood of Christ and the Christian martyrs.

    It is appropriate for Catholic clerics to wear purple and scarlet, if for no other reason because they have been liturgical colors of the true religion since ancient Israel.

    Hunt neglects to remind his readers that God commanded that scarlet yarn and wool be used in liturgical ceremonies (Lev. 14:4, 6, 49–52; Num. 19:6), and that God commanded that the priests’ vestments be made with purple and scarlet yarn (Ex. 28:4–8, 15, 33, 39:1–8, 24, 29).
    Hunting the Whore of Babylon | Catholic Answers

    Coreissue may as well claim that the liturgical vestments worn by the priests of ancient Israel is a match to pagan Romans.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  19. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 17:6 New International Version (NIV)
    6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
     
  20. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    Trinitarians also believe the Father is not the Son and vice versa. Since we know for a fact that Yeshua's Father is YHWH based on Psalms 2:7, then the Son cannot be YHWH.

    Don't forget to prove that the "Lord's day" in the Didache means Sunday even though the word "ημερα" is not in the Greek text.
     
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