Who is the Whore of babylon

[ScottA]

I've been told multiple times that the whore of babylon from revelation is the Roman Catholic Church and the vatican yet I have read revelation 17 and 18 multiple times and a better match seems to be pagan rome which took place in the time revelation was written, why do people keep claiming that the whore of babylon is the catholic church when alot of the evidence suggests pagan rome

She is defined in the scripture as having tempted all people. She is a metaphor for the flesh, also know as the man of sin.

 

[ScottA]

Giving up my freedom is bad

The only freedom is to align with the creator of all things. Just what freedoms are you referring to?

 

[Ivor]

CoreIssue said.... She does not contain God's people. She contains people the need to escape her and come to God.


Yet the scripture reads "Get out of her my people" .... so whoever she is, she contains God's "my" people..

I had two conifer trees at the side of my doorway in clay pots and sadly one got smashed and so I planted that tree out in my garden and within several years it was above 20 feet tall while the pot bound one never flourished and was 4ft tall at its maximum. This showed me how being "pot bound" and having restricted water and nutrients can be.

The seed can fall on good or poor soil and yet it can also be restricted from growing by having just enough soil in a rock like container. I think Babylon restricts the Holy Spirit from doing what He does and anywhere that restricts the Holy Spirit is not necessarily bad soil but may still be bad for the seed because the rock that surrounds it controls and restricts growth by it's very nature, and to me Babylon the Great is not limited to a single religion but anything where God's people are contained and restricted and "her" Babylon's reach is also financial, banking and trade related which are other methods she uses to control masses of people. She is an entity with world influence and she will fall and when she does it will shock the world

 

[CoreIssue]

CoreIssue said.... She does not contain God's people. She contains people the need to escape her and come to God.


Yet the scripture reads "Get out of her my people" .... so whoever she is, she contains God's "my" people..

I had two conifer trees at the side of my doorway in clay pots and sadly one got smashed and so I planted that tree out in my garden and within several years it was above 20 feet tall while the pot bound one never flourished and was 4ft tall at its maximum. This showed me how being "pot bound" and having restricted water and nutrients can be.

The seed can fall on good or poor soil and yet it can also be restricted from growing by having just enough soil in a rock like container. I think Babylon restricts the Holy Spirit from doing what He does and anywhere that restricts the Holy Spirit is not necessarily bad soil but may still be bad for the seed because the rock that surrounds it controls and restricts growth by it's very nature, and to me Babylon the Great is not limited to a single religion but anything where God's people are contained and restricted and "her" Babylon's reach is also financial, banking and trade related which are other methods she uses to control masses of people. She will fall and when she does it will be shocking

Revelation 18:4 New International Version (NIV)
Warning to Escape Babylon’s Judgment
4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:

“‘Come out of her, my people,’a]">[a]
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

But the subject was the harlot, which is different from mystery Babylon.

Different in that mystery Babylon is a complete system: religious, economic, moral and so on.

The harlot is covered in the blood of martyrs. So who slaughtered Christians that are eligible here? Pagan Rome and Roman Catholic Church.

So don't try to simplistically reduce it to religion.

 

[Ivor]

CoreIssue wrote... So don't try to simplistically reduce it to religion.

Obviously not read my replies or others, it seems - I got this feeling on other threads but it's now confirmed.. by the way I will answer as I wish to answer, ordering me with a "don't try!" comment is pointless because unless we are free to have a variety of opinions it's not really a discussion or a debate.

Then again I may be wrong because I do accept that I am not always right - I wish others would too

 

[Episkopos]

Babylon....the religious system that men give official sounding names to. That would include personal ministries that are set up as businesses. Men tend to be ambitious. Babylon comes from such motivation.

All ministry should come indirectly (or directly?) from God...through a human instrument...without anything added to it. (No additives)

 

[CoreIssue]

CoreIssue wrote... So don't try to simplistically reduce it to religion.

Obviously not read my replies or others, it seems - I got this feeling on other threads but it's now confirmed.. by the way I will answer as I wish to answer, ordering me with a "don't try!" comment is pointless because unless we are free to have a variety of opinions it's not really a discussion or a debate.

Then again I may be wrong because I do accept that I am not always right - I wish others would too

Sure. Answers you wish and others will respond as they wish. That's called posting on a forum.

I did not mean it as an order, just an observation.

 

[Andrew Kind]

Most people would believe what they want, and latch onto the first thing they hear to prove it to themselves.

You refuse to do that, this means you at least have some respect for the truth. This is why I think you're going to befriend Jesus one day.

Nobody knows what the truth is

 

[gadar perets]

I'm not becoming Christian end of story

In that case, you have good reason to be scared as an unbeliever.

Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
​

A believer on the other hand has no reason to fear because he loves God and knows that God loves him.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love.​

The very reason I received Yeshua (Jesus) as my Savior was because I was afraid to die without him and without my sins being forgiven through his shed blood. Since then, my fear turned to love as I came to know him and God more.

Giving up my freedom is bad

No, not giving up your slavery to sin is bad. Your "freedom" is only an illusion. Your are in bondage to sin and only the Son can make you free.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
​

The bible is the cause of all my unhappiness and misery

No, sin is because it has separated you from your Creator.

 

[lforrest]

Nobody knows what the truth is

Well, if they did know the truth you wouldn't be able to tell them apart from those who don't but only think they do. Making surveys pointless, as it implicitly assumes most are in agreement. But when you get deep into interpretation you will find many Christians do not agree, especially on a forum like this with many denominations.

But just cause people don't know, it doesn't deminish the Bible from which they draw their incorrect interpretations. This would apply to religious people who are:

"Always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:7 NIV"

I have faith that the bible as written is true. But as it says, it must be spirituality discerned. So unless you are given "eyes to see" the truth in the bible will not be found.
If I am right, then your approach to come to the truth will not work.

Like most problem solving I suggest you start with the most basic principles first.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6 NIV

 

[CoreIssue]

Well, if they did know the truth you wouldn't be able to tell them apart from those who don't but only think they do. Making surveys pointless, as it implicitly assumes most are in agreement. But when you get deep into interpretation you will find many Christians do not agree, especially on a forum like this with many denominations.

But just cause people don't know, it doesn't deminish the Bible from which they draw their incorrect interpretations. This would apply to religious people who are:

"Always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:7 NIV"

I have faith that the bible as written is true. But as it says, it must be spirituality discerned. So unless you are given "eyes to see" the truth in the bible will not be found.
If I am right, then your approach to come to the truth will not work.

Like most problem solving I suggest you start with the most basic principles first.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6 NIV

Many use what I call shopping cart theology. They only quote the verses they believe can be made to support their thinking and dismiss the rest.

You have to harmonize Scriptures, make them all work together or else the Bible becomes a pile of contradictory words without value.

As you say, always learning but never getting to the truth.

 

[CoreIssue]

Babylon....the religious system that men give official sounding names to. That would include personal ministries that are set up as businesses. Men tend to be ambitious. Babylon comes from such motivation.

All ministry should come indirectly (or directly?) from God...through a human instrument...without anything added to it. (No additives)

Where does the Bible limit mystery Babylon to religion?

The four beasts are kingdom and kings.

The statute is kingdoms and kings.

The composite East the harlot rides on our kingdoms and kings.

 

[ScottA]

Nobody knows what the truth is

That's not true.

 

[Enoch111]

Nobody knows what the truth is

That is a rather sad and uninformed statement.

Does God know the truth? Does Jesus know the truth? Does the Holy Spirit know the truth?

And have they not given us God's truth in Scripture, where Jesus is recorded as saying: I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

 

[CoreIssue]

That's not true.

We know some of the truth but not all the truth.

 

[ScottA]

We know some of the truth but not all the truth.

Then you do not believe in having "the mind of Christ" as Paul claimed, and Jesus sending the Holy Spirit to "lead us in to all truth."

I do.

 

[CoreIssue]

Then you do not believe in having "the mind of Christ" as Paul claimed, and Jesus sending the Holy Spirit to "lead us in to all truth."

I do.

The truth we need to know and he wants us to know.

We see through a dark glass says the Bible.

Can you name the AC right now? Can you tell me when the rapture is going to occur specifically? Can you tell me if Trump is saved? Can you tell me if either one of us a be alive tomorrow?

Don't make outlandish claims you cannot defend.

New International Version
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Notice that verses has qualifiers?

 

[Blueberry]

Giving up my freedom is bad

What freedom? You may not be as free as you think that you are. By your own words, you are not free from fear. Is that what you do not want to give up?

 

[ScottA]

The truth we need to know and he wants us to know.

We see through a dark glass says the Bible.

Can you name the AC right now? Can you tell me when the rapture is going to occur specifically? Can you tell me if Trump is saved? Can you tell me if either one of us a be alive tomorrow?

Don't make outlandish claims you cannot defend.

New International Version
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Notice that verses has qualifiers?

Bravo, you defend untruth quite well. Nonetheless, I know and will defend Truth.

 

[CoreIssue]

What freedom? You may not be as free as you think that you are. By your own words, you are not free from fear. Is that what you do not want to give up?

Bravo, you defend untruth quite well. Nonetheless, I know and will defend Truth.