Who or What is Antichrist?

[cga]

In Matthew 24 Jesus warns us of false teachers to lead us away from Him.
Paul in 2nd Thess.2 and John in 1st John 2 reminds of a "son of perdition" and "antichrists"...
Who and what are these?
There is a website that has very informative articles on this subject, to the point of identifying these entities.
Google: End times deception-The antichrist is hidden in plain sight.

Reading this article, and following the many links, provides spiritual understanding, as well as the history leading up to these entities.

The antichrist is not one man, but is indeed a seat of authority occupied by one man. This seat of authority is that of the Roman emperors, which then became the Roman papacy, and this seat of the antichrist, has lived on from the times of the destruction of Jerusalem and will continue until the coming of Jesus Christ. I have a study on this on this here, http://www.wisdomofgod.co/2016/10/14/the-identity-of-the-antichrist-the-two-beasts-of-revelation-and-the-whore-of-babylon/ .

 

[bbyrd009]

(pleased to meet you; hope you guessed my name)

if the pope does a good deed, does it not cover many sins?

 

[Dcopymope]

(pleased to meet you; hope you guessed my name)

if the pope does a good deed, does it not cover many sins?

If he's still facing judgement by the Lord in front of the great white throne for his every deed, thought and word he ever spoke in his life, then no, his "good deeds" didn't cover any sin. Your good works are like filthy rags to the Father, so the only thing that ever did or could cover any sin was the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. If you are willing to bet the eternal fate of your soul on your works, then good luck, my heart bleeds for you.

 

[bbyrd009]

And yet 8...charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

So we might keep an open mind at this "judgement by the Lord," which imo people seem to be so keen on, when there is much evidence that God does not judge, at all.

I understand the concept of "Your good works are like filthy rags to the Father," but imo this is a different concept, meant to be applied to someone plowing their own ground, in the manner of Cain; these do not impart the same sense of self-sacrifice, to me anyway.

 

[Dcopymope]

And yet 8...charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

So we might keep an open mind at this "judgement by the Lord," which imo people seem to be so keen on, when there is much evidence that God does not judge, at all.

I understand the concept of "Your good works are like filthy rags to the Father," but imo this is a different concept, meant to be applied to someone plowing their own ground, in the manner of Cain; these do not impart the same sense of self-sacrifice, to me anyway.

Charity shall cover a multitude of sins for the born again believer, NOT the unbeliever. This is what the scripture was referring to in context. Beyond this, your works will NOT make you the bride of Christ when the time comes. If it would, then it makes the entire gospel message null and void. If your sins aren't covered by the atonement of Jesus when the time comes, then you will stand before God to face judgement just like every other nonbeliever. If you have to face judgement at all, then it means you are in serious trouble.

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, i pretty much agree with you on a certain level, but this can also be completely misconstrued, and made into religion, so if you would reflect on this critique, for what it's worth, because we can also observe
27 A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision.

So with all due respect, a pox on "believers." satan believes, too. Where do you stand on Doers of the Word, iow.

If your sins aren't covered by the atonement of Jesus when the time comes

Nehushtan worshippers believe that Jesus will save them, too. See "Moses' bronze serpent on a pole" thread, where looking to Christ is incorrectly modeled, and the lesson of Nehushtan is ignored, and statues and looking are glorified. Picking up your cross is work, and God can make believers out of stones. Hopefully.

Charity shall cover a multitude of sins for the born again believer, NOT the unbeliever

you are adding to Scripture, and i do not believe you, sorry.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Beyond this, your works will NOT make you the bride of Christ when the time comes.

The time is now, and there is no other "time." Understand I AM.
10 so that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him, bearing fruit in every good work...
8 And God is able to make every grace overflow to you, so that in every way, always having everything you need, you may excel in every good work.

et al, there's like a hundred of those. So although i'm not interested in a "Grace v Works" debate here, because i agree that works done from a bad heart will not save you, as Job teaches us, nonetheless it is your works that will be judged, whether you deem yourself a "believer" or not--many will be pleading the precious blood of Jesus "in that day," which i realize that for you right now is some nebulous, undetermined future period of time, but with all due respect i have to suggest that you keep an open mind there, and i also have to ask did you, at any time, give the people who convinced you of this any money? Are you looking for the kingdom to come by observation?

And i don't mean to condemn whatever you believe right now, ok, whatever you believe is none of my business, but when you deny works, you deny fruit, and after all it is your tree, that you are growing, and your fruit. It might sound scary in the moment, but God will not punish you for forgetting everything that some guys who signed Contracts for Jesus convinced you is true, and seeking your own salvation, as Paul did, ok. Keep an open mind, iow, and be willing to question your premises.
8 "But he replied to him, Sir, leave it this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it."

 

[bbyrd009]

https://www.facebook.com/Wayseers/videos/1306244362731656/?pnref=story

 

[Dcopymope]

ok, i pretty much agree with you on a certain level, but this can also be completely misconstrued, and made into religion, so if you would reflect on this critique, for what it's worth, because we can also observe
27 A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision.

So with all due respect, a pox on "believers." satan believes, too. Where do you stand on Doers of the Word, iow.

Nehushtan worshippers believe that Jesus will save them, too. See "Moses' bronze serpent on a pole" thread, where looking to Christ is incorrectly modeled, and the lesson of Nehushtan is ignored, and statues and looking are glorified. Picking up your cross is work, and God can make believers out of stones. Hopefully.

you are adding to Scripture, and i do not believe you, sorry.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.

The time is now, and there is no other "time." Understand I AM.
10 so that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him, bearing fruit in every good work...
8 And God is able to make every grace overflow to you, so that in every way, always having everything you need, you may excel in every good work.

et al, there's like a hundred of those. So although i'm not interested in a "Grace v Works" debate here, because i agree that works done from a bad heart will not save you, as Job teaches us, nonetheless it is your works that will be judged, whether you deem yourself a "believer" or not--many will be pleading the precious blood of Jesus "in that day," which i realize that for you right now is some nebulous, undetermined future period of time, but with all due respect i have to suggest that you keep an open mind there, and i also have to ask did you, at any time, give the people who convinced you of this any money? Are you looking for the kingdom to come by observation?

And i don't mean to condemn whatever you believe right now, ok, whatever you believe is none of my business, but when you deny works, you deny fruit, and after all it is your tree, that you are growing, and your fruit. It might sound scary in the moment, but God will not punish you for forgetting everything that some guys who signed Contracts for Jesus convinced you is true, and seeking your own salvation, as Paul did, ok. Keep an open mind, iow, and be willing to question your premises.
8 "But he replied to him, Sir, leave it this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it."

"You are adding to scripture, and I do not believe you, sorry"...........

No, actually, nothing at all was added to the scripture from which you originally cited. The chapter in context:

(1 Peter 4:1-11) "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; {2} That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. {3} For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: {4} Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: {5} Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. {6} For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. {7} But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. {8} And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. {9} Use hospitality one to another without grudging. {10} As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. {11} If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

At what point is 1 peter 4 NOT in reference directly to the believer? Here is the bottom line, a gentile, a non-believer, can show all the charity they want. Getting saved boils down to repentance, and if they didn't repent, then they will stand before God to face judgment when the time comes just like everyone else who is not saved, or of the bride of Christ. When it comes down to brass tax, you are either the bride of Christ, or you aren't. I don't have to cite ten different scriptures to prove a point that's clearly spoken of in kings English in the word for all to understand.

 

[shnarkle]

In Matthew 24 Jesus warns us of false teachers to lead us away from Him.
Paul in 2nd Thess.2 and John in 1st John 2 reminds of a "son of perdition" and "antichrists"...
Who and what are these?
There is a website that has very informative articles on this subject, to the point of identifying these entities.
Google: End times deception-The antichrist is hidden in plain sight.

Reading this article, and following the many links, provides spiritual understanding, as well as the history leading up to these entities.

In the beginning man is created in God's image. In the end we see man creating God in man's image. We are told that it is the number of man. Anti means "instead of", and anything that we put between God and ourselves is instead of God. We tend to put ourselves first, God and the kingdom will have to wait until we're dead; that will be way too late...

 

[bbyrd009]

No, actually, nothing at all was added to the scripture from which you originally cited. The chapter in context:




At what point is 1 peter 4 NOT in reference directly to the believer? Here is the bottom line, a gentile, a non-believer, can show all the charity they want. Getting saved boils down to repentance, and if they didn't repent, then they will stand before God to face judgment when the time comes just like everyone else who is not saved, or of the bride of Christ. When it comes down to brass tax, you are either the bride of Christ, or you aren't. I don't have to cite ten different scriptures to prove a point that's clearly spoken of in kings English in the word for all to understand.

the problem there might be that people are led to believe that they can define a religious "repentance" experience as being genuine, and then can define who is lost or saved based upon this, rather than on who is able to exhibit works unto rebound--owning up to mistakes, apologizing, and seeking to make it right--in real time. So pride seems to often be the result of this "salvation," rather than humility.

 

[tom55]

The warnings given regarding Antichrist, its teachings, practice, and demands, is a warning all must heed carefully, prayerfully, and with much solemnity, as they are salvational. Yet amazingly, the church is utterly confused over the identity and meaning of Antichrist, to the extent that in this thread alone, at least ten different versions of what this entity is and what it stands for is presented. Is such a state of affairs what God desires considering the fact that this entity is spoken of more and described in detail in scripture second only to Jesus Himself?

Are you aware that there was a time when only two viewpoints were debated and considered in the worldwide church? Are you aware that the reformers were very nearly unanimous in their considered and Bible inspired and taught view that the papal church itself was the Antichrist of scripture? Are you aware that the different prophetic hermenuetics, futurism and preterism, came into the church principally as a result of the Vatican/Jesuit inspired counter to these charges? Little wonder that the Catholic apologists are so careful in this thread to turn away any suggestions that perhaps the Protestants in this thread have it wrong. So long as the Protestant church continues on its current ill-conceived ideas to which the pioneers of their faith would stand aghast at, the Catholics are happy.

The reformers had very good and sound reasons why they taught what they did. Prophecy and eye-witness observation were the basis of their teachings. That modern Protestantism no longer teaches this is a direct result of the counter reformation.

I will play your weird game and go with the theory that The Catholic Church is the antichrist.

Which church (denomination) is pure and has not succumbed to the power of satan, the antichrist?

 

[epostle1]

I will play your weird game and go with the theory that The Catholic Church is the antichrist.

Which church (denomination) is pure and has not succumbed to the power of satan, the antichrist?

Brakelight's Seventh Day Adventism. I'm guessing but the lies sure match up.

 

[bbyrd009]

the flesh profits nothing, so seeking a material church for approval is the problem, not the solution. See how all SDAs are condemned now, based upon doctrine, when God does not care about that, and does not judge that way. Voila, the antichrist is then revealed.

the problem there might be that people are led to believe that they can define a religious "repentance" experience as being genuine, and then can define who is lost or saved based upon this, rather than on who is able to exhibit works unto rebound--owning up to mistakes, apologizing, and seeking to make it right--in real time. So pride seems to often be the result of this "salvation," rather than humility.

 

[Mungo]

the flesh profits nothing......

So Jesus' death on the cross - in the flesh - profited nothing ?

 

[Dcopymope]

the problem there might be that people are led to believe that they can define a religious "repentance" experience as being genuine, and then can define who is lost or saved based upon this, rather than on who is able to exhibit works unto rebound--owning up to mistakes, apologizing, and seeking to make it right--in real time. So pride seems to often be the result of this "salvation," rather than humility.

Which one comes first to you, being saved by the blood atonement of Jesus Christ, or your works? Does the chicken come first or is it the egg? You seem confused even though I just explained to you in clear cut English where "charity", or your works belong in the pecking order of the gospel.....the real one that is. I can waste my time giving a list about the specific "works", or charities that Jesus Christ demands of his flock beyond just spreading the gospel, you know, like loving God with your every fiber, and your neighbor as you would yourself, and others like not looking upon a woman in lust, but I'm pretty sure you already know what those verses are. I have better things to do with my life than to preach to the choir.

So Jesus' death on the cross - in the flesh - profited nothing ?

He apparently believes his death and resurrection didn't really do a damn thing for him, which is what I see from quite a few others on this site that I don't care to name who elevate their own works at and above the finished work on the cross.

 

[bbyrd009]

So Jesus' death on the cross - in the flesh - profited nothing ?

obviously not, if many will cry "Lord, Lord" and hear "I never knew you." Besides which that is misrepresenting "the flesh" anyway, don't you think; Christ gave up more than that. Iow the point was surely not to provide you a Snake on a Pole to get all religious and judgmental over, but to impart a spiritual principle.

And imo you are correct in that it will not profit the religious. I have plenty of Scripture for that if you like. Hundreds of verses. "MANY will be deceived," et al. Those who can be described as "putting Christ's teaching in the streets," and "eating and drinking at His table," these are among the condemned in Scripture.

i understand that this is completely counter-intuitive to our current model, but it is all right there in the Book.

 

[bbyrd009]

Which one comes first to you, being saved by the blood atonement of Jesus Christ, or your works? Does the chicken come first or is it the egg? You seem confused even though I just explained to you in clear cut English where "charity", or your works belong in the pecking order of the gospel.....the real one that is. I can waste my time giving a list about the specific "works", or charities that Jesus Christ demands of his flock beyond just spreading the gospel, you know, like loving God with your every fiber, and your neighbor as you would yourself, and others like not looking upon a woman in lust, but I'm pretty sure you already know what those verses are. I have better things to do with my life than to preach to the choir.



He apparently believes his death and resurrection didn't really do a damn thing for him, which is what I see from quite a few others on this site that I don't care to name who elevate their own works at and above the finished work on the cross.

ya, no judgment there, lol, i'm sure we all just feel the love. The only enemy is the guy in the mirror, same as it ever was. The only righteous ones are those who do right, little children, do not be deceived. The lesson of Nehushtan is available to you, also, and like any lesson that matters, requires no explanation, with all due respect.

 

[Dcopymope]

ya, no judgment there, lol, i'm sure we all just feel the love. The only enemy is the guy in the mirror, same as it ever was. The only righteous ones are those who do right, little children, do not be deceived. The lesson of Nehushtan is available to you, also, and like any lesson that matters, requires no explanation, with all due respect.

So are you saying that Satan isn't your enemy? He certainly considers you his enemy since you claim to be saved. So if he's not your enemy seeking to devour you then what is he? Your best buddy?

 

[shnarkle]

So are you saying that Satan isn't your enemy? He certainly considers you his enemy since you claim to be saved. So if he's not your enemy seeking to devour you then what is he? Your best buddy?

I'm not speaking for him, but it seems that what you think of as satan is what he's referring to as the guy you see when you look in the mirror.

To a certain degree this makes sense. When we look at Jesus being tempted in the wilderness, he's being tempted by what our modern world would call the ego.

When we look at Genesis we see God making man in His image. When we look at Revelation we see man making god in his image.

Prior to the fall, when Adam and Eve looked at their reflection in a pool of water they saw the image of God, afterwards we've been looking at something quite different; most people see themselves.

 

[Dcopymope]

I'm not speaking for him, but it seems that what you think of as satan is what he's referring to as the guy you see when you look in the mirror.

To a certain degree this makes sense. When we look at Jesus being tempted in the wilderness, he's being tempted by what our modern world would call the ego.

When we look at Genesis we see God making man in His image. When we look at Revelation we see man making god in his image.

Prior to the fall, when Adam and Eve looked at their reflection in a pool of water they saw the image of God, afterwards we've been looking at something quite different; most people see themselves.

So are you saying he believes that Satan is nothing but some allegory of ourselves? Is Satan a real entity or not?