Who or What is Antichrist?

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Mungo

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bbyrd009 said:
Besides which that is misrepresenting "the flesh" anyway, don't you think;
Ah yes, you have a private definition of flesh that doesn't mean what everybody else means by it.
 

Dcopymope

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Mungo said:
Ah yes, you have a private definition of flesh that doesn't mean what everybody else means by it.
I see all kinds of wacko private interpretations of old and new testament scripture galore on this site alone. It gets quite annoying after a while.
 

bbyrd009

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Dcopymope said:
So are you saying that Satan isn't your enemy? He certainly considers you his enemy since you claim to be saved. So if he's not your enemy seeking to devour you then what is he? Your best buddy?
well, the Book tells me that i am "two men in a bed," or a field, and that one will be taken, and the other will be left. And i can (now) relate this to my moments of conflict, which are many, and also note that getting religion did not finally resolve the conflict--i still have an angel on one shoulder, and a devil on the other, so to speak. And i did not claim to be saved, with all due respect, even though i have endured all of the socially accepted steps that men require in order to commend me to this...appellation? term, whatever. I could talk the talk, with the best of them, but having not yet "held out to the end," i would not claim to be saved; even while i enjoy a blessed assurance, that i get reassurance of whenever i manifest Christ.

So yes, the Unseen One is my enemy, and "Who told you that you were naked?" is the Finger, that indicates where i might find him, imo. I don't recall exactly when or even how i came to stop personifying spirits, so that satan "considering" me anything now takes on a different meaning for me, but i might suggest that even as just a thought experiment or whatever, satan be considered...well, a spirit--the antithesis of Christ, the Spirit that whispers wisdom from my other shoulder. These are not persons, iow. Yes, i know that they have names, but that might be considered a shorthand, for purposes of discussion--spirits imo now are not ghosts, like Casper, that one might get a picture of with the right camera or whatever, even if that characterization is constantly reinforced.

Michael is an Archangel, yes; but "Michael" has a definition--"Who is like God?" which Michael is prolly not the best example to convey my meaning here, but nevermind. And hold to your conceptions of Michael or satan as Casper for as long as you like, ok, those work well enough anyway, at least until you can overcome who told you that you were naked, and no longer need a scapegoat for that.
 

bbyrd009

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Dcopymope said:
So are you saying he believes that Satan is nothing but some allegory of ourselves? Is Satan a real entity or not?
Oh, very real, yes. As real as you being two men in a bed or a field, if that allegory makes any sense to you.
 

bbyrd009

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Mungo said:
Ah yes, you have a private definition of flesh that doesn't mean what everybody else means by it.
my meaning was that Jesus' crucifixion "in the flesh" will not avail one if their observance remains ceremonial, and they do not pick up their crosses and follow. But also "the flesh profits nothing" is not really even a concept that i would relate to Christ, as you have done; although i guess it is working out well enough for discussion--but generally it is a reference to a different concept, yes? The Flesh is generally referenced for anything but Christ, is it not? But there is a fleshly way to observe Christ, too, i guess; which is why "many will be deceived."

So with all due respect, while i frequently do have a "different" definition than many believers, i think it is me that is using the accepted definition of "the flesh" here--i've never heard it applied to Christ before.
 

bbyrd009

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Dcopymope said:
I see all kinds of wacko private interpretations of old and new testament scripture galore on this site alone. It gets quite annoying after a while.
the inference here is that you know how this Scripture is to be interpreted, and that you are then the arbiter of the interpretation. Which i do understand has been encouraged in you, but i suggest that this closes you off to Living Word, wherein the Spirit might reveal deeper truth to you. The old wine is better, they say. If something is nonsense to you, all that means is that you do not see any truth in it--not that there is none. Which there is no shame in that, if a thing does not apply to you, and your walk, in the moment. But see that you have made a judgement, at "whacko," you, who calls another man "father," while claiming to have some understanding of Scripture. Which i don't mean as condemnation, but as proof of conflict, understand. Pride goes before a fall, bro.
 

bbyrd009

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"I shouted out 'Who killed the Kennedys?'
when after all, it was you and me..."

and if that is hard to equate with self (the guy who stood by, with his "Federal Reserve Notes," the ones still in your pocket), we have plenty of other examples in history--Hitler is condemned, but he was duly elected, etc. Armageddon is a war for the center of you.
 

shnarkle

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Dcopymope said:
So are you saying he believes that Satan is nothing but some allegory of ourselves? Is Satan a real entity or not?
Not an allegory, but a different word or symbol for the same thing. What they called "satan" or the "self" is what we refer to as the "ego". For all practical purposes it is real, but the reality is that it is simply a vain imagining. Once one truly denies the self, we see reality as it is; we step into eternity and satan jumps into the fire. Maybe he needs a little prodding. Tell him to jump in the fire...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVi60L_kLEw
 
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Mungo

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bbyrd009 said:
my meaning was that Jesus' crucifixion "in the flesh" will not avail one if their observance remains ceremonial, and they do not pick up their crosses and follow. But also "the flesh profits nothing" is not really even a concept that i would relate to Christ, as you have done; although i guess it is working out well enough for discussion--but generally it is a reference to a different concept, yes? The Flesh is generally referenced for anything but Christ, is it not? But there is a fleshly way to observe Christ, too, i guess; which is why "many will be deceived."

So with all due respect, while i frequently do have a "different" definition than many believers, i think it is me that is using the accepted definition of "the flesh" here--i've never heard it applied to Christ before.

You say:
"But also "the flesh profits nothing" is not really even a concept that i would relate to Christ, as you have done; although i guess it is working out well enough for discussion--but generally it is a reference to a different concept, yes?"

Why not relate it to Christ? You gave no limitations when you stated that "the flesh profits nothing".

Do you think Christ's flesh was not real flesh?

You say:
"The Flesh is generally referenced for anything but Christ, is it not?"

I suggest you read your Bible before spouting off such nonsense.
You could start with John 1:14
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth"

Then
"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Lk 24:39)

Jesus has a lot to say about the value of his flesh in John 6:

51. "I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."
53. Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you"
54. "he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
55. "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed."
56. "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him."

But you say that you wouldn't relate flesh to Jesus and that Jesus' flesh profits nothing.
 

mjrhealth

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But you say that you wouldn't relate flesh to Jesus and that Jesus' flesh profits nothing.
His flesh is not food, are we cannibals, do we run around eating teh flesh of men. Again carnal nature of men. Jesus was not speaking of eating His flesh, He was speaking of learning from Him, but how can a religion that has no "revelation" understand the things of God.

Rom 8:6-8 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God
 
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bbyrd009

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You can read the Last Supper in more than one way, see. But at some point you come to realize that no one was eating any Flesh when they actually had the chance, right? It is an allegory, created specifically to offend those under Law, and it still works today.
 

bbyrd009

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Dcopymope said:
Which one comes first to you, being saved by the blood atonement of Jesus Christ, or your works?
Which one comes first to you, being redeemed from a future place of fire and brimstone where you have been assured that you will spend "eternity," or recognizing when you have wronged someone, and apologizing to them in the same forum where the wrong was committed--iow a public apology for a public wrong--and offering to make it right, and not doing it again (rebound)?
 

bbyrd009

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now, how did a spiritual condition, Gehenna, get made into a "place" that you have pointed out to you, like every day (because sin and death is pretty much the bulk of any religious conversation--as it must be, which is a sign), that you are assured you should fear (even though you are now s'posed to be "saved," and that convo should be over; but of course the reasoning is that you are now helping to "save" some of the newly-fearful that have been recruited) for "eternity," when eternity of course requires time to mark it, and God is outside of time?

this is not fear of God, now--this is fear of hell, in the future. And you get dealt a lesson on this practically every day--are you still fearful of Killer Bees? Y2K? Lol. The fear has to be kept fresh, right, so now it is Muslim Terrorists or whatever, but of course despite the CIAs spending a half a $Billion on fake terror videos, that one will wane, too, because no one is actually getting killed by Islamic terrorists around you, so even though that has been pumped to the max, and you may not realize it quite yet, that nerve is already about dead, and China is being warmed up now, or maybe N Korea or whatever, some other boogey-man. Never mind that your water is prolly, almost surely, worse than Flint's.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cities+with+more+lead+than+flint&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS718US718&oq=cities+with+more+lead&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57.9349j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 

Mungo

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bbyrd009 said:
You can read the Last Supper in more than one way, see. But at some point you come to realize that no one was eating any Flesh when they actually had the chance, right? It is an allegory, created specifically to offend those under Law, and it still works today.
"You can read the Last Supper in more than one way, see"
True - you can read the Last Supper in more than one way: the correct way and the Protestant way.

"But at some point you come to realize that no one was eating any Flesh when they actually had the chance, right?"
Wrong. They ate Jesus' flesh at the Last Supper.

"It is an allegory, created specifically to offend those under Law, and it still works today."
Wrong again. It's not an allegory. Jesus said what he meant and meant what he said: "This IS my body", not is an 'allegory' for my body or 'represents' my body or 'symbolises' my body.
 

Mungo

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bbyrd009 said:
well i guess that was all for someone else then, Mungo, no prob. You are entitled to your own facts.
My own facts? Well you do confuse your opinions with facts so I think you meant I'm entitled to my own opinions.

But I think you will find that in all Bibles (certainly the ones I have consulted), at the Last Supper, Jesus says "This IS my body" (Mt 26:26, Mk 14:22, Lk 22:19, 1Cor 11:24).
Or do you have a special Bible that says something different?.
 

bbyrd009

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Mungo said:
My own facts? Well you do confuse your opinions with facts so I think you meant I'm entitled to my own opinions.

But I think you will find that in all Bibles (certainly the ones I have consulted), at the Last Supper, Jesus says "This IS my body" (Mt 26:26, Mk 14:22, Lk 22:19, 1Cor 11:24).
Or do you have a special Bible that says something different?.
well, why didn't Jesus then just actually provide some of His Body for consumption, being as how He was there and all, do you think?
 

bbyrd009

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"man does not live by bread alone" should prolly also be considered in this context, especially considering that the "We ate and drank in Your presence" crowd are condemned elsewhere by Him, also.
 

Mungo

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bbyrd009 said:
well, why didn't Jesus then just actually provide some of His Body for consumption, being as how He was there and all, do you think?
He did!
"Take, eat; this is my body."