Who or What Is the Fire Burning?

[amadeus]

And there is the rub. ( as I see it) that line of yours which I made bold in your quote.
Maybe my age...or maybe the wording...but I have seen too many people calling things faith, which turned out to be presumption.

I do not fall in the group who - Do something "in faith" and expect to get a reward later in glory. ( "Look at all these things we did in Your Name..." )
Faith and fruit can only come via the hearing of the ear.
I KNOW that many "good, faith things" we did in our earlier days, "for God and His glory"...will vanish in a puff of smoke . They were 'good ideas' they were very sacrificially-looking ideas....they were Christian's ought to ideas...looked good and impressive.
But they were our ideas ...God did not speak them to us...a Pastor , a leader, a book, some preacher...

Sometimes we hear the right call but our faith is not in it. When my wife and I transferred with my job from California to Wyoming in 1985, we had decided that we were not returning the UPC [church] in Wyoming. When we arrived and settled in a cursory look around Rock Springs and Green River,WY decided us to stay with the UPC. We did for the two years, we spent in Wyoming. We had never really put it before the Lord. We simply did what we wanted and the easiest way in our whole move to Wyoming including where we would attend church.

When in 1987 my job was to move us to Oklahoma, we did put it before the Lord and in our hearts and between us it was settled that there would be no more UPC. We arrived and I went to work immediately. We attended services no where at first, waiting on the Lord. In less than a month the Lord surprised by putting a Christian sister in my wife's pathway. God confirmed for us in a very unusual way that we were in His will when decided to attend where that sister was attending... Some might want to call it coincidence, but it really was not.

The first Sunday we attended there was a another vehicle pulling into the parking lot when we pulled in... Like our car it had a Wyoming license plate. We skipped the next Sunday and then that third Sunday we and that same family in that same car from Wyoming were both there again. As we were to discover later they also skipped the second Sunday and our first day of attendance was also their first day of attendance. Even though both families were recently moved from Wyoming, we had never met previously.

If that were not enough, I soon discovered that the brother from Wyoming spoke fluent Spanish. I also spoke fluent Spanish. We attended services in the new assembly together from that point and remain friends up to the present day.
Coincidence? No way! The was only the beginning of God's work for me and that brother.

Give God the glory!

 

[Heart2Soul]

Sometimes we hear the right call but our faith is not in it. When my wife and I transferred with my job from California to Wyoming in 1985, we had decided that we were not returning the UPC [church] in Wyoming. When we arrived and settled in a cursory look around Rock Springs and Green River,WY decided us to stay with the UPC. We did for the two years, we spent in Wyoming. We had never really put it before the Lord. We simply did what we wanted and the easiest way in our whole move to Wyoming including where we would attend church.

When in 1987 my job was to move us to Oklahoma, we did put it before the Lord and in our hearts and between us it was settled that there would be no more UPC. We arrived and I went to work immediately. We attended services no where at first, waiting on the Lord. In less than a month the Lord surprised by putting a Christian sister in my wife's pathway. God confirmed for us in a very unusual way that we were in His will when decided to attend where that sister was attending... Some might want to call it coincidence, but it really was not.

The first Sunday we attended there was a another vehicle pulling into the parking lot when we pulled in... Like our car it had a Wyoming license plate. We skipped the next Sunday and then that third Sunday we and that same family in that same car from Wyoming were both there again. As we were to discover later they also skipped the second Sunday and our first day of attendance was also their first day of attendance. Even though both families were recently moved from Wyoming, we had never met previously.

If that were not enough, I soon discovered that the brother from Wyoming spoke fluent Spanish. I also spoke fluent Spanish. We attended services in the new assembly together from that point and remain friends up to the present day.
Coincidence? No way! The was only the beginning of God's work for me and that brother.

Give God the glory!

Wow, Praise God that is quite a testimony of how God directs our paths and moves us into His Perfect Will for us!

 

[Helen]

I think I am going to rephrase this.....if I am following the responses correctly the works that will be burned up....some are saying this refers to leadership and teachers? correct? and I am thinking that this may refer to our faith. But it could be both....I dunno.

I have never agreed that it is referring to any leadership or teachings...( unless they are our own! )

Paul here was writing it to to Church.

But every one is responsible to get before God and hear directly from Him..what emphasis HE is putting on that chapter.
To me...I am quite satisfied that God is speaking to all of us.
We are the ones who are build our 'house' on the rock or the sand.
We take the whole counsel of God...not just cherry pick or focus on a few verses here and there.

That is how I see it anyway.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I have never agreed that it is referring to any leadership...
Paul was writing it to to Church.
But every one is responsible to get before God and hear directly from Him..what emphasis HE is putting on that chapter.
To me...I am quite satisfied that God is speaking to all of us.
We are the ones who are build our 'house' on the rock or the sand.
We take the whole counsel of God...not just cherry pick or focus on a few verses here and there.

That is how I see it anyway.

Yes agreed...and thinking on my first post which I put as a reply to one of your posts I think I gave you the wrong impression....I agreed with your posts and was not opposing it with my reply...I probably should have just posted separately.....sorry about that.

 

[Helen]

Yes agreed...and thinking on my first post which I put as a reply to one of your posts I think I gave you the wrong impression....I agreed with your posts and was not opposing it with my reply...I probably should have just posted separately.....sorry about that.

Oh no worries....it was me I think who mis-read what I "thought" you were saying.
All is good...I believe we are 'on the same page'...

 

[Nancy]

I think I am going to rephrase this.....if I am following the responses correctly the works that will be burned up....some are saying this refers to leadership and teachers? correct? and I am thinking that this may refer to our faith. But it could be both....I dunno.

Are we not all to be equipped unto all good works? Yes, some are teachers, some are pastors and so on. And yes, I believe they will have a harsher judgement but, no man is without excuse and, we are to make disciples of each other. Our teachers, pastors, leaders direct us but, we are responsible for our own self and our own "works". And how evident it will be when we stand naked and alone before the Creator of the Universe!
Romans 1:20 Matthew 5:16
Colossians 3:23-24
Romans 2:6-10
2 Timothy 3:17
Titus 2:14 ...

 

[GodsGrace]

Are we not all to be equipped unto all good works? Yes, some are teachers, some are pastors and so on. And yes, I believe they will have a harsher judgement but, no man is without excuse and, we are to make disciples of each other. Our teachers, pastors, leaders direct us but, we are responsible for our own self and our own "works". And how evident it will be when we stand naked and alone before the Creator of the Universe!
Romans 1:20 Matthew 5:16
Colossians 3:23-24
Romans 2:6-10
2 Timothy 3:17
Titus 2:14 ...

Who said we are Not responsible for our own works?
I believe this thread is not understood by some.

 

[Nancy]

Who said we are Not responsible for our own works?
I believe this thread is not understood by some.

Seemed you were speaking of the Apostles only...sry.

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh no worries....it was me I think who mis-read what I "thought" you were saying.
All is good...I believe we are 'on the same page'...

You haven't been able to show when the transition takes place....
Paul is clearly speaking about himself and Apollo's,,,
WHEN does he begin to speak of the believers?
In which verse?

 

[GodsGrace]

Seemed you were speaking of the Apostles only...sry.

These verses are very misunderstood.
They speak of incorrect doctrine being burned up.
They speak of those who are our teachers, ministers, etc. that are building on the foundation of a building.
WE are the building,,,not the builders. Paul and Apollo's are the builders.

 

[Helen]

These verses are very misunderstood.
They speak of incorrect doctrine being burned up.
They speak of those who are our teachers, ministers, etc. that are building on the foundation of a building.
WE are the building,,,not the builders. Paul and Apollo's are the builders.

See, we will have to disagree on that...obviously you are just stuck on the idea that Paul is speaking of incorrect doctrine...and that only teachers and "ministers" are building etc etc...

That is fine...I just cannot go there with you, that's all.

 

[GodsGrace]

See, we will have to disagree on that...obviously you are just stuck on the idea that Paul is speaking of incorrect doctrine...and that only teachers and "ministers" are building etc etc...

That is fine...I just cannot go there with you, that's all.

It's ok BG, but your answering to the wrong post. The above was for Nancy.

In my post to you I was asking you in what verse you see the transition from Paul speaking about himself to him speaking about believers.

 

[Nancy]

It's ok BG, but your answering to the wrong post. The above was for Nancy.

In my post to you I was asking you in what verse you see the transition from Paul speaking about himself to him speaking about believers.

The foundation of Christ can be the only foundation to build upon. Do not other followers of Christ build on this foundation? Not just Teachers and preachers whom, yes, I agree will have their false teachings and self-glorification burnt up, the Church is built up of many whom lay good or bad materials. Are not Christians to make disciples out of others? Are we not also called the building stones of the Church? My take is that either we lead others to Christ, knowingly or not, or we do NOT lead others to Christ. Good/bad works/fruit? This is obviously my opinion of these scriptures and a few others. It's not as important to me really, as learning to Love Him mightily!! lol.

 

[Jun2u]

I've already responded to this post, but just noticed something you've said above.
I NEVER said I'm a teacher of the bible!
I know what it is to teach this and I certainly am not one of them.
What I have said is that I've taught kids our faith.

And I also don't appreciate your saying I "claim" this as if I were lying.
If I say something that's how it is.
And, I repeat, I never said I teach the bible.
What nonsense I have to hear.

Firstly, I’ve NEVER said you claimed to be a teacher of the Word. If I did I would have written the word “you” and not the word “someone” or “someone like you.”

I think you have misunderstood that paragraph and that was really NOT my intention. You should have asked if I was pointing at you. In any case, the damage has been done and I sincerely apologize.

In fact, you should remember who that person that I was pointing to for I had discussions with him (speaking as a third person) some time ago in different occasions whom you sided with..

 

[Jun2u]

[QUOTE="GodsGrace, post: 434050, member: 7593"be]In that case, I see no reason to answer your post...even though I disagree with all of it.[/QUOTE]

So be it!

 

[Helen]

1 Corinthians 3:8-15

8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I just still cannot see any issue here.
I cannot see that Paul was ever just "talking about himself"...

It was always to everyman, any man, each man etc etc...
A warning to all to take care how we build.

I have put off saying this..because I don't want to "light the fuse".. I know by what you have written on this forum that you hold the "learned men" in high esteem, you have mention how much you have studied and read books and commentaries.
You are no longer 'in' the RC church but you have taught for them etc etc... You are used to having a priest, preacher, father or whatever they are called over you.

I and some here do not 'hold' these teachers in such high opinion.
We had pastor and teachers who wanted to grow us up and work themselves out of a job...We are out of groups who see The Whole Body Of Christ in action, every joint supplying...not a top heavy man who teaches while the rest of the body just sits in pews and listens politely and submissively to his great wisdom...

Paul was one who wanted all to grow up...mature...and then teach others.

I just think we see this chapter from different places. I can't see Paul as you see him..he saw One body as a whole...
...he was never an " us ministers" and 'you peons '
writer... but...enough said. It is becoming a dead horse!!

I think I best drop out of this discussion...and get out of your hair...

Hugs...Helen x

 

[Enoch111]

In my post to you I was asking you in what verse you see the transition from Paul speaking about himself to him speaking about believers.

1. First Paul calls all Christians God's building: For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. (1 Cor 3:9). Here is where the transition occurs.

2. Then he connects (in Ephesians) the foundation of Christ (the chief Cornerstone) to the foundational pillars of the apostles and prophets (all are found in, and limited to, the writings in Scripture):

EPHESIANS 2
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

3. Then he shows us (in Ephesians) that apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers are given to the Church (God's building) to equip the saints for the work of the ministry:

EPHESIANS 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting [equipping] of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 

[GodsGrace]

I just still cannot see any issue here.
I cannot see that Paul was ever just "talking about himself"...

It was always to everyman, any man, each man etc etc...
A warning to all to take care how we build.

I have put off saying this..because I don't want to "light the fuse".. I know by what you have written on this forum that you hold the "learned men" in high esteem, you have mention how much you have studied and read books and commentaries.
You are no longer 'in' the RC church but you have taught for them etc etc... You are used to having a priest, preacher, father or whatever they are called over you.

I and some here do not 'hold' these teachers in such high opinion.
We had pastor and teachers who wanted to grow us up and work themselves out of a job...We are out of groups who see The Whole Body Of Christ in action, every joint supplying...not a top heavy man who teaches while the rest of the body just sits in pews and listens politely and submissively to his great wisdom...

Paul was one who wanted all to grow up...mature...and then teach others.

I just think we see this chapter from different places. I can't see Paul as you see him..he saw One body as a whole...
...he was never an " us ministers" and 'you peons '
writer... but...enough said. It is becoming a dead horse!!

I think I best drop out of this discussion...and get out of your hair...

Hugs...Helen x

Yes. I do hold learned men in high esteem.
Do you think we know as much as Tom Wright or James White or Scott Hahn?

And we're not here to discuss my life but 1 Corinthians 3:5-17 .

 

[Enoch111]

Do you think we know as much as Tom Wright or James White or Scott Hahn?

Not sure if you are referring to N.T. Wright, but you have just listed a bunch of false teachers. Beware of false teachers, false prophets, and false apostles.

 

[Windmillcharge]

There are specific persons who are REQUIRED to do this...priests, pastors, ministers, missionaries, etc.

Sorry that is rubbish. Where in Matt 28 does Jesus say, pastors, misionaries etc.
In Acts when Christians are driven out of Jerusalem, we read that these ordinary people 'gosiped' the gospel.
Priests, all christians are a royal priesthood.

It is all of us who have the responcibility/duty to talk about what and why we believe.