Who or What Is the Fire Burning?

[bbyrd009]

15) If a believer’s work is burned he shall suffer loss, but his salvation will still remain intact.

Why? Because all believers have been given eternal life upon conversion

ah, so misquote the verse, and then jump to a false conclusion, ok
"since you are the only one i see that has a head" lol, priceless
i foresee a bright future for you in Christianity Jun2u,
can't think why you couldn't get ordained right now lol
i mean yikes already, evil puke much?

 

[Helen]

Why do you insist on referring to OUR WORKS...YOUR WORKS.
We're so used to reading about OUR WORKS that we can't even see what 1 Corinthians is talking about.

It's talking about BAD DOCTRINE and how those who teach it will have their work burned up,
verse 13
13each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

But that work is not OUR work, it's the work of the helper's of God, the ministers of God, of which
Verse 8
Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

And, who is it that plants and who is it that waters...
Paul and Apollos, the ministers of God.

Verse 9 is also speaking about God's workers and that WE are the building upon which the builders build with
Gold
Silver
Stones
or
Wood
Hay
Straw

The ministers of God are doing the building. WE are the building.
They will teach with correct doctrine or incorrect doctrine,,,
THE DOCTRINE will be burned, but they will be saved.
Verse 15
15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Any Man............the ministers of God
Man's Works......the teachings of the ministers.

You read it very differently than I do Fran.

It's every mans OWN WORKS which are burned....if they were not ordered of the Lord.
What the preachers teach or don't teach is "their works"...nothing to do with us.
WE are each responsible for what we 'hear' and chose to believe.

They cannot be blamed for what we choose to believe...
No man can stand before God and say..." That man's words sent me off the path." We are all without excuse before the Lord.

God said to Moses... re the Tabernacle - " Be sure that you build it according to the pattern that was shown thee on the Holy Mount."e the Teacher...we are responsible for US, no one else.

We HAVE the pattern...we have The Teacher, the Holy Spirit.
We are responsible , no excuses.
Luke 18 18 " Take heed therefore how ye hear...."

We are each a building block to fit into His Temple...this building block is being knocked, buffed, chipped and hammered upon until the day it fit perfectly into it's own Place.

 

[Helen]

ah, so misquote the verse, and then jump to a false conclusion, ok

How so? How do you read it otherwise ?

 

[Jun2u]

God is the beginning and ending of our faith.
He that began a good work in us , is well able to perform it until the day of Jesus Christ!

Thanks for responding so quickly but that was not the answer I was hoping for.

But you are correct that “God did begin a good work on us and is able to perform it till the day of Jesus Christ.”

To God Be The Glory

 

[bbyrd009]

How so? How do you read it otherwise ?

without substituting my preferred interpretation onto it for starters, but we can pick this up after J2u has gotten back into his coffin or whatever

How so? How do you read it otherwise ?

there is no "believer" in there for instance.
Well, unless believers are lost, which i am finding hard to dispute these days tbh

 

[Helen]

Hi Nancy,
Once again, everything you say is good.
However, it does not address 1 Corinthians 3:5-17

You've quoted verses 12 and 13 above.
Jesus is the foundation.
WE are the building, or the temple, as noted in verse 16.

There are men building on that foundation. Who are these men?
Two of them are Paul and Apollos. Who are they?
They are the helpers of God, the co-workers, the ministers of God.

THEY, the ministers of God, are building on the foundation by teaching us. They teach us theology, they teach us about our faith. Some teach better than others, Gold, silver, stones. Some teach badly or even with incorrect doctrine...Wood, hay, straw.

These verses are not speaking about US, who are the building, NOT the builders.

Is have read that chapter every which way from Sunday...I cannot make it say what you say that it is saying!!

1 Cor. 3
5 ( Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? )
All of us have ministers who ministered to us..AND we all have ( or should have,) preached to others.
6 ( I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth;( anything) but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour." )
We "receive " what we have done with the talents/ truth/ wisdom ..that God has given us. Talking about US , not about some other ministry...we ARE the ministry...or darn well should be.

((9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. ) Was Paul part and parcel of that building? Of course he was! So are each one of us.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, ( of those church groups) and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.) Wherever in the world he himself is labouring for the Lord. There is no exemption here...we cannot ever say .."They" are the ministers ..we are not , we are just their building. No where does Paul say that..." Every joint supplieth" One body.

I agree that "to whom much is given , much will be required"...but we have all been "given much" We are rich with knowledge and teaching..

I feel you want to read something into 1 Cor 3 which is not there.
Everyman's works will be tried and tested by fire...

 

[Helen]

Thanks for responding so quickly but that was not the answer I was hoping for.

But you are correct that “God did begin a good work on us and is able to perform it till the day of Jesus Christ.”

To God Be The Glory

Tell me what you were hoping for...now I am interested

 

[Helen]

there is no "believer" in there for instance.

Well, unless believers are lost, which i am finding hard to dispute these days tbh

Okay...lets go with it....? yes?

I find it has to be speaking about the believers in this case of 1 Cor 3
Look at the forth verse below. V 16

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. ( here I agree we have every man and any man here)
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
BUT IT SAYS:-
16 Know ye not that ye are the Temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? ...
for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

I can't see any man and Every man in there...can you?
It is for sure speaking to God's people.

But "to me" ( and I hear shrieks of Heresy here) It does look like some of the "any man" and every man 's work could be good works.
How do you read that?

Which takes me back to CS Lewis and "The Last Battle"...
Until I read that, 1969...I had never considered that many men seek God...but they don't know who He is...like the men who Paul found worshipping on Mars Hill...and he says "
Acts 17 23 "For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, "To The Unknown God".
Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, Him declare I unto you".

Then he shows them who they were really seeking.
So, "for me" I believe many will have God recognize their true seeking heart ,and honour their works as "unto Him".
Conversely maybe just as many will be surprised when God does not recognise the works that "they" did, in His name, because it was not really that which He was looking for.
The Fire itself proving what kind it really is!!!

Just saying....

 

[GodsGrace]

Amazing how a simple teaching of Scripture can be so misunderstood and made complex by so many, even from someone who claims to be a teacher of the Bible!

The answer to the question of the OP is verse 15. However, the context of 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is found in verses 5, 6 where we find the key words, “ministers,” “planted,” “watered,” and “increase.”

8) “he that planteth” and “he that watereth” are one that is, in harmony, not competition. IOW, the believers are the builders.
9) “we are laborers” = we are builders with God; “husbandry” = field.
10) self explanatory.
11 ) “There can be no other foundation laid” than that of the Lord Jesus Christ. Anyone who preaches another Jesus than that of the Bible let him be accursed, we read!
12) if any man build upon the foundation (Gospel) “gold, silver, precious stones,” “wood, hay, stubble”:
13) Every believer’s work shall be revealed by fire of what sort it is, either saved as gold, silver, precious stones, or unsaved as wood, hay, stubble.
14) If isolated from the rest of Scripture, it seems we will receive a reward. But this verse must be read in light of Luke 17:10; 18:29-30 (in this life).,
15) If a believer’s work is burned he shall suffer loss, but his salvation will still remain intact.

Why? Because all believers have been given eternal life upon conversion and has been mandated by Christ to go into all the world to preach/witness (work) and make disciples of men.

Therefore, the gist of 1 Corinthians 3:1-15 is the “work” or task of all believers to preach and witness as per Matthew 28:19!

And, if he doesn’t lead anyone to salvation, it is no big deal, because it is God who increases and does the saving! Romans 10:17

To God Be The Glory

If it's so simple why don't we all understand this the same way?

One of your key words is "ministers", and correct you are.

Verse 8 Is speaking about working together; Paul and Apollos.
But are WE doing the same work THEY were doing? Are we going around the world preaching the gospel message? Did Jesus give everyone the authority to do this or did He specifically give this authority to the Apostles in Mathew 28:19-20? Are YOU responsible for converting persons to Christianity or do we say that we preach it but the Holy Spirit has the responsibility of conversion?
In Paul's time HE had the responsibility of conversion since he went specifically to preach and teach and convert. He and Apollos are the ministers, not us.

Verse 9 We are the building upon which the ministers work. We are the field, this is plainly stated.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

WE.............Paul and Apollos and all other ministers of God.
YOU............are the field, God's building...that would be US.

Verse 12 What happened between all the verses above and verse 12?
Above Paul is speaking about himself and Apollos and the servants and ministers of God who are building upon the foundation (which is Christ) US.

Where did it switch to US doing the work? Could you explain that. I don't see it.

If Paul is speaking about ministers building, then ANY MAN is the ministers who are going to continue to build on the building. The builders are the workers working on the building... not us. WE ARE THE BUILDING. This is further stated in verse 16 where it states that WE are the temple of God...IOW, WE are the building - we are not the builders.

Verses 13, 14 and 15 is all a repeat.
We are not the workers.
Ministers are the workers.

Please show where Paul changes from speaking about the ministers to speaking about the believers.

 

[GodsGrace]

I do not accept the concept of purgatory their I have difficulty accepting any idea that after the second coming, people's false doctrines are burnt up, yet those that taught them are saved.

Some false doctrine can cause someone to become lost; these will definitely be judged differently.
James 3:13-18
2 Peter 2:1-2
1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3and in theirgreed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

Some false doctrine will not cause the loss of salvation, even though the teaching might be wrong as understood by the Apostles in Jesus' time.
These will surely lose their rewards as 1 Corinthians 3 states.

 

[Helen]

@GodsGrace

Why do you keep separating "ministers" from "us"?

Jesus always spoke to His disciples...when did we stop being His disciples? "Ye are the salt of the earth" " You are the light on a hill"

We are one body..we are ALL called to be His workmen...
2 Cor 5 20 "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ..". ...not just the "ministry." We are all called to minister the good news.
Why do you say " We are not the workers"....

 

[GodsGrace]

Every time we turn on the boob tube to partake of its garbage or turn our head to hear the wrong kind of story, etc., we eat of that tree one more time. If no one after Adam and Eve had eaten of it again, would things have gotten as bad as they have with mankind? When the tree is gone, will not the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life be gone?

If no one had eaten from the tree after A and E fell, nothing would have changed.
The damage was done, sin entered into the human story. We now had our sin nature to deal with.

When will the tree be gone?
At the end of time?
Then I agree.

 

[GodsGrace]

Did this every get answered? Maybe I missed it.

1 Corinthians 3:15 King James Version

15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

I underlined MAN'S work in the verse.....

Much of what WE call good works is just "our good works"...and that is fine...just fine...but there is no reward for it.
Our works are not God's works through us.
Only the works that God speaks personally to us to do ...are GOOD works. Because they are HIS works ...and all the works that HE does, through us, are GOOD.

1 Corinthians 3:15 states "he himself will be saved"...
this is not stated in Luke 8:18, as you had typed.

You may have underlined ANY MAN'S WORK, but I have yet to see where the transition is made in 1 Corinthians between Paul speaking about HIMSELF and APOLLOS as ministers of God ministering to US and building, as master builders, upon the foundation THEY have set, which is Jesus.

ANY MAN is referring to who is doing the work.
Who is doing the work?

Not us. WE are the BUILDING, not the workers.

 

[Helen]

1 Corinthians 3:15 states "he himself will be saved"...
this is not stated in Luke 8:18, as you had typed.

You may have underlined ANY MAN'S WORK, but I have yet to see where the transition is made in 1 Corinthians between Paul speaking about HIMSELF and APOLLOS as ministers of God ministering to US and building, as master builders, upon the foundation THEY have set, which is Jesus.

ANY MAN is referring to who is doing the work.
Who is doing the work?

Not us. WE are the BUILDING, not the workers.

Well, as you can see from my other two posts to you also..
I cannot agree with your interpretation of scripture. And I do not and cannot divide ourselves from the ministers...
The way you say it , it sound like all responsibility is on them...and only they will be tried by fire to test their works.
In fact , your posts have me quite bemused , I can't see how you come up with some of these things.

So....we will just have to disagree on this subject.

Bless you....Helen

 

[bbyrd009]

I can't see any man and Every man in there...can you?

why not? Christ died for the sins of the world, right. God so loved the world. Believers are totally in the world, near as i can tell anyway
so really what is the diff?

But "to me" ( and I hear shrieks of Heresy here) It does look like some of the "any man" and every man 's work could be good works.
How do you read that?

Little children, don't be deceived.

there is no "salvation" switch that gets thrown, except in the minds of those who wish to commend themselves to each other
imo
so i agree with you here

 

[GodsGrace]

Is have read that chapter every which way from Sunday...I cannot make it say what you say that it is saying!!

1 Cor. 3
5 ( Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? )
All of us have ministers who ministered to us..AND we all have ( or should have,) preached to others.
6 ( I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth;( anything) but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour." )
We "receive " what we have done with the talents/ truth/ wisdom ..that God has given us. Talking about US , not about some other ministry...we ARE the ministry...or darn well should be.

((9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. ) Was Paul part and parcel of that building? Of course he was! So are each one of us.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, ( of those church groups) and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.) Wherever in the world he himself is labouring for the Lord. There is no exemption here...we cannot ever say .."They" are the ministers ..we are not , we are just their building. No where does Paul say that..." Every joint supplieth" One body.

I agree that "to whom much is given , much will be required"...but we have all been "given much" We are rich with knowledge and teaching..

I feel you want to read something into 1 Cor 3 which is not there.
Everyman's works will be tried and tested by fire...

Tomorrow H, too tired.
WHO are the every man?
Paul is speaking about himself and Apollos.
WHEN does he begin to speak about US??

 

[Episkopos]

Tomorrow H, too tired.
WHO are the every man?
Paul is speaking about himself and Apollos.
WHEN does he begin to speak about US??

Paul is speaking to the Corinthian church the whole time.

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul is speaking to the Corinthian church the whole time.

Good try.
Is Paul speaking to the Romans the whole time??
No. He stops in chapters 9, 10 and 11 to speak to his fellow Jews.

 

[Episkopos]

Good try.
Is Paul speaking to the Romans the whole time??
No. He stops in chapters 9, 10 and 11 to speak to his fellow Jews.

More accurately...he is speaking to the Romans about the Jews.

 

[GodsGrace]

More accurately...he is speaking to the Romans about the Jews.

In 1 Corinthians 3 Paul is speaking to the Corinthians about ministers.
Please read it again...