Who or What Is the Fire Burning?

[Episkopos]

In 1 Corinthians 3 Paul is speaking to the Corinthians about ministers.
Please read it again...

I leave you to read it as you see it.

 

[Nancy]

@GodsGrace

Why do you keep separating "ministers" from "us"?

Jesus always spoke to His disciples...when did we stop being His disciples? "Ye are the salt of the earth" " You are the light on a hill"

We are one body..we are ALL called to be His workmen...
2 Cor 5 20 "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ..". ...not just the "ministry." We are all called to minister the good news.
Why do you say " We are not the workers"....

Ephesians 2:10

 

[GodsGrace]

False self

Hi Aspen,
You quoted above that our "false self" is being burned up.
What is our false self?

 

[GodsGrace]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Matter can be changed to energy... m (matter) = E/c2 (energy)
Energy can be changed to matter... E/c2 (energy)= m (matter)

E/c2 is eternal stuff, and to her properties what we call 15 trillion years is a mere blink of the eye. Who knows how many times the plasma has been turned to mass and the mass to plasma? It is not a hard thing for God to dis-associate the mass of the universe into energy and light and then re-associate the energy and light back into matter. As a 'matter' of fact...

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

God is going to change all mass back into the plasma energy (fire) from whence it was forged... And he will do something else with it!

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. - Isaiah 65:17

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. - Revelation 19:7-9

Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. - Mark 14:25

The mass awaits its disassociation! It will soon test the work of man to see what remains! It will soon become something else! If our works be of Christian works it will stand the test of the fire!

So you believe it is also speaking of OUR works.

Could you please show me how you come to this conclusion?

(1 Corinthians 3:5-17)

 

[bbyrd009]

Ephesians 2:10

work while it is day

 

[Jun2u]

ah, so misquote the verse, and then jump to a false conclusion, ok
"since you are the only one i see that has a head" lol, priceless
i foresee a bright future for you in Christianity Jun2u,
can't think why you couldn't get ordained right now lol
i mean yikes already, evil puke much?

It is a matter of knowing how God wrote and how to understand the Bible.

You can make fun of me all you want but I assure you I will not be the one standing in front of Judgment Day when Jesus says: “Depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Why? Because I will be judging with Christ!

You are not only under the scrutiny of Matthew 7:21-23 but also of Proverbs 16:25.

If you believe I am wrong with my view of 1 Corinthians 3:1-15, then I would like to invite you and anyone in these forums, and let us reason together accompanied with scripture references, and without wise cracks. Can you do this?

I feel like Elijah who was alone against the 450 Baal worshipers.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Heart2Soul]

Okay...lets go with it....? yes?

I find it has to be speaking about the believers in this case of 1 Cor 3
Look at the forth verse below. V 16

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. ( here I agree we have every man and any man here)
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
BUT IT SAYS:-
16 Know ye not that ye are the Temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? ...
for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

I can't see any man and Every man in there...can you?
It is for sure speaking to God's people.

But "to me" ( and I hear shrieks of Heresy here) It does look like some of the "any man" and every man 's work could be good works.
How do you read that?

Which takes me back to CS Lewis and "The Last Battle"...
Until I read that, 1969...I had never considered that many men seek God...but they don't know who He is...like the men who Paul found worshipping on Mars Hill...and he says "
Acts 17 23 "For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, "To The Unknown God".
Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, Him declare I unto you".

Then he shows them who they were really seeking.
So, "for me" I believe many will have God recognize their true seeking heart ,and honour their works as "unto Him".
Conversely maybe just as many will be surprised when God does not recognise the works that "they" did, in His name, because it was not really that which He was looking for.
The Fire itself proving what kind it really is!!!

Just saying....

Hi Grace and everyone....so is it not possible that the works the scripture is referring to be our works of faith? especially when considering the trial by fire in the testing of our faith. Example: People who claim to have faith in God to miraculously heal someone who is sick but never seek Him in prayer for their healing but rather put more trust in what a doctor can do than what God can do. Or like in Job's situation, it is easy to claim to have faith in God when everything is going well and you are blessed coming and going but when it all is taken do you still maintain that faith or do you turn away from God and become angry and bitter.

Does this make any sense? But what you said in that last paragraph kind of says the same thing I suppose. But every work I ever did in faith trusting Him, glorified Him and brought Praise to His Name. Every work of obedience to do as He asked, every work of sacrifice of praise, every work of leading others to Christ, every work of walking in the spirit and not the flesh, every work of becoming spiritually minded and not carnal minded, every work of being humble and not full of pride......could this be the works it is referring to?

This is just another thought......

 

[Helen]

I feel like Elijah who was alone against the 450 Baal worshipers.

To God Be The Glory

I know the "feeling" but that is all it is...a feeling.
Elijah felt just them same... when he was sitting there hanging his head..because he felt alone in his fight...
But God spoke and said- 1 Kings 19
"Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him."

The wheat and tares are not manifested yet...we cannot know or tell..but God alone knows....
No one is alone as he thinks he is...

 

[Helen]

But every work 'I ever did' in faith trusting Him, glorified Him and brought Praise to His Name. Every work of obedience to do as He asked, every work of sacrifice of praise, every work of leading others to Christ, every work of walking in the spirit and not the flesh, every work of becoming spiritually minded and not carnal minded, every work of being humble and not full of pride......could this be the works it is referring to?

This is just another thought......

And there is the rub. ( as I see it) that line of yours which I made bold in your quote.
Maybe my age...or maybe the wording...but I have seen too many people calling things faith, which turned out to be presumption.

I do not fall in the group who - Do something "in faith" and expect to get a reward later in glory. ( "Look at all these things we did in Your Name..." )
Faith and fruit can only come via the hearing of the ear.
I KNOW that many "good, faith things" we did in our earlier days, "for God and His glory"...will vanish in a puff of smoke . They were 'good ideas' they were very sacrificially-looking ideas....they were Christian's ought to ideas...looked good and impressive.
But they were our ideas ...God did not speak them to us...a Pastor , a leader, a book, some preacher...

If the list in your quote were instigated by the Lord...then yes...they are indeed works of us co-working with the Lord...Gold, silver and precious stones ..and they will survive the test of fire.

Just saying...Satan likes to keep us busy...it can wear us out and also get us on the wrong track ( Martha and/ or Mary)

When we first had our church ..we would answer the phone at 2 am at night....get dressed and go out to whichever emergency was happening and " needed" us. Until a wise old retired pastor said to us...
"Beware....When your phone rings at any time or day or night...do you pause, check with the Holy Ghost and ask Him if this one is genuine, a "God call" or another antic of the devil to keep you busy.? God will lead you."

We never forgot that wise instruction ..and we made it a rule of our life...
Any "ought to" in our "works for God"...is usually not from Him...but some old religious thing...
" For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Romans 8:14


As I have said before...Isaac was 'God's idea' (led by God) ...Ishmael was Abrahams idea...NOT "led by God.
We have many more Ishmael's idea's in our lives and 'good-works' than we would even guess of. ( Many "ought to's)

But like all things..there is always a balance...and you hit it well when you mentioned a " Sacrifice of praise". Something that starts with us..
I like the phrase - " When the Wind of God is not blowing in your sails, ...start rowing!! "

I always look for a "Come" in everything.
If Peter had just stepped out of the boat ( his idea) and started walking on the water , he would have sunk right away.
But Peter wisely said - " Lord, BIDE me COME to You on the water" ......and Jesus said "Come".

When there is no Wind...we can ask God for a "Come"..
I see the Sacrifice of praise like that..as you mentioned.
We start, as it were, without Wind...no active movement of the Spirit within...and then, after a while ...we hear the Come of the Spirit ...and the wind blows ,

I'm not sure if I answered what you were asking, lol
Me, just rambling....

 

[Heart2Soul]

And there is the rub. ( as I see it) that line of yours which I made bold in your quote.
Maybe my age...or maybe the wording...but I have seen too many people calling things faith, which turned out to be presumption.

Well the question was concerning what works is the fire burning and I was bringing up the possibility that it may be the works of our faith.

1 Corinthians 3:13 says the worth of our works will be revealed by fire. This applies two ways. First is the testings on earth, our trials and tribulations. How we respond under pressure and temptation demonstrates where we have grown in the grace and knowledge of Christ. Life brings many tests to all, believer and unbeliever alike. These give opportunity for us to demonstrate the effectiveness of God’s love and grace in our lives, or else should show us areas which still need more work. When we pass the test, we show spiritual silver, gold, and gems. But if we quickly fail under trial, if the fire of testing usually burns up our potential testimony, then we know that area is still wood, hay, and stubble.


1Peter 1:6-9 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith – the salvation of your souls.

 

[Heart2Soul]

And there is the rub. ( as I see it) that line of yours which I made bold in your quote.

This simply refers to the times God would speak to me to do something that required my faith to trust that I am hearing from Him....for example when He spoke to me and said He wanted me to move to Tulsa....I replied I can't afford the move but if you want me to move then provide the way. That following Monday my boss called me into his office and said they were opening a district office in Tulsa and would I be willing to move there and establish the new location...and of course he said the company will pay all expenses.
I really am confused in how that was a rub.

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace,

I've only browsed this thread, so forgive me if this has already been stated.

Who is Paul addressing? 'Brothers and sisters' in Christ (3:1). So this passage is dealing with what happens to Christians when their rewards are determined by God (v 8).

Examine the metaphors that are used in this passage. A metaphor is 'a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable' (Oxford Dictionaries Online 2018. s.v. metaphor). It is like a word picture using figurative language.

Here are the metaphors I observed in this passage:

Hi Oz,
I've studied the following in different bibles and for a good reason.
When I was Catholic I was taught that this referred to purgatory; we are judged but escape as through fire. When I left the CC, I studied a little every doctrine I didn't agree with to make sure that in my own mind I was making the right move.

This was one of them. It became apparent to me that it wasn't speaking to that at all; and yet I find most Christians understand these verses as the CC does ! Since purgatory does not exist, it must be referring to someone other than we Christians...

• V. 8, plants + waters --> own reward, which is the Christian's labor (while on earth).

Paul is not speaking about the Christian's labor here. He is speaking about Himself and Apollos. He's speaking about THEIR labor which is to disseminate the word of God.

• V. 9, Christians are God's 'fellow workers' who are in 'God's field' and are 'God's building'. Metaphors from agriculture and carpentry are used here to convey God's message.

Verse 9 says "WE" are God's fellow workers. Paul was speaking about himself and Apollos --- so WE refers to himself and Apollos.
Then Paul goes on to say that "YOU are God's field, God's building".
The YOU in this case refers to us, believers. We are the field and the building NOT the workers.

• V. 10, 'master builder', 'laid foundation', 'building', 'how he builds'. These are metaphors again to demonstrate what kind of foundation and building are being built into the Christian's 'own reward'. Seems to me that this points to James 2 in action.

Paul is the master builder (not us). HE laid the foundation.
WE (believers) are the building.
It points to James 2 in the sense that Paul is doing the will of God and the work of God and he's putting his faith into the action requested by God. (on the road to Damascus).

• V. 11, 'lay a foundation', 'is laid'. This verse talks about a true foundation, which is Jesus Christ. The inference is that there are other foundations Christians can build on that will not lead to a good 'reward'. The next verse tells us this:

Paul has laid the correct foundation, which is Jesus. This is the true foundation, as you've stated. I see the inference as being that others can teach a different foundation or preach a different Jesus, as we like to say today.

And who is building on the foundation already laid?
Other teachers, ministers, etc.
We are the BLDG, OTHERS are continuing the building which Paul and Apollos started. (in this particular case).

• V. 12, 'builds', 'foundation', 'gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw'. All of those are metaphors but when speaking of the two types of 'rewards', Paul differentiates between the reward of 'gold, silver, precious stones' and what will be burnt up, 'wood, hay, straw' (anticipating v. 15).

Some will continue the building with correct doctrine and teachings ... gold, silver, stones.
Some will continue the building with false or incorrect doctrine.
Wood, hay, straw.

Paul even refers to us as a temple in verse 16.
In Verse 17 he says that if anyone DESTROYS this temple, God will destroy him. This is because some doctrine could cause us to lose our salvation.

• V. 13, 'man's work', 'revealed with fire', 'fire ... tests the quality';

  [*]V. 14, 'man's [Christian person's] work', 'built', 'reward'.

Here it becomes important to know WHO Paul is talking about.
EACH MAN verse 13
ANY MAN verse 14

Each man's work. Any man's work.
Who has been working to build the building which is us?
It's not ourselves --- Paul has been speaking about himself and Apollos. Pastors build upon the foundation, ministers, priests, teachers, theologians, etc.

• V. 15, How is this reward determined? Paul used the metaphor of 'burned up', 'suffer loss', 'through fire'.

Agreed.

part 1 of 2

 

[GodsGrace]

part 2 of 2

So, all through this passage, Paul uses metaphors of agriculture and particularly of carpentry.

In my understanding, Paul is teaching what takes place at the Judgment Seat of Christ where our works (AFTER salvation) will be tested to determine if they are trash (wood, hay, straw) or treasure (rewards of silver, gold, precious stones). Trash is burnt up; treasure is purified.

What is to be 'revealed with fire' is metaphorical language for when God hands out rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ. What will be 'burned up' is like saying that what Christians do that is outside of what is articulated in James 2 (NIV) and Matt 25:31-46 (NIV) will be regarded as trash to be incinerated by God.

We see in v. 15 that Christians can be those whose lives are built on 'wood, hay & chaff' or 'silver, gold and precious stones'.

Paul is not speaking of literal fire. He's using the example of fire as a metaphor to demonstrate that junk gets God's treatment and so does treasure. This 'fire' is God's way of telling what amounts to true works after salvation and false works.

I agree except for WHO these verses are speaking of.
They aren't speaking of us Christians doing the works,,,but of the ministers of God.
Also, when I had studied this I found that fire in verse 13 was referring to Jesus.


Elliot's Commentary
(13) Revealed by fire.—Better, revealed in fire.For the general scope of this passage, see 1Corinthians 3:12 above. The day of the coming of the Lord is always thus represented as bursting suddenly with a rush of light and blaze of fire upon the earth. (See Malachi 3:1-3; Malachi 4:1; 2Thessalonians 1:8; 2Thessalonians 2:8.)



Meyer's Commentary
ἘΝ ΠΥΡΊ] i.e. encompassed with fire (see Bernhardy, p. 209; Matthiae, p. 1340), so that fire is the element in which the revelation of that day takes place. For Christ, when His Parousia draws nigh, is to appear coming from heaven ἐν πυρὶ φλογός (2 Thessalonians 1:8; comp Daniel 7:9-10; Malachi 4:1), i.e.surrounded by flaming fire (which is not to be explained away, as is often done: amid lightnings; rather comp Exodus 3:2 ff; Exodus 19:18). This fire, however, is not, as Chrysostom would have it, that of Gehenna (Matthew 6:22; Matthew 6:29, al[528]); for it is in it that Christ appears, and it seizes upon every ἔργον, even the golden, etc., and proves each, leaving the one unharmed, but consuming the other.

source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_corinthians/3-13.htm

I your responses, I'd appreciate if you wouldn't use Christian cliches.

What is the junk in your life that will be burned up?

For me, it has been the times when I didn't think of others and work to better love my neighbour. They have been the times when I became angry with those who were close to me and with employees. My motives have not always been pure. I have hurt people, including my wife and children. It's too late to take back the hurt but I did seek forgiveness, etc.

What is the treasure in your life that will not be destroyed at the Judgment Seat of Christ?

For me, they have been the times when I genuinely loved and served my neighbour with practical help and care. I spent 34 years as a counsellor, mostly with non-Christians. I thank God for helping me with many break-throughs. I was an instrument that God used. Today I'm helping an elderly couple and the husband is in the early stages of dementia. I'm involved in a discipling ministry and challenging secular values and consequences in my society through the mass media, etc. None of this is to brag about what I'm doing.

This is where I often fail:

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these (Mark 12:30-31 NIV).​

Loving God will all my heart, soul, mind and strength is a discipline in which I fail all too regularly. Instead, I fall back on my puny self - which amounts to wood, hay and chaff that are burnt up.

Only God knows what is truly genuine or false in our works for Him, but we have enough information in the Bible to give us direction.

Oz

I hope I haven't used Christian cliches. I'm simple and just say what I mean.
Needless to say, all you've stated above is very appreciated by all of us. We all fail, we all have our weak points, we all love the best way we can and don't always succeed. I always feel like I could do more. I know for sure that I could, but I'm sure God will forgive us our faults.

God is all-important to me. But the closer I get to His blinding light, the more I feel like a sinner.

 

[Helen]

What I said was

And there is the rub. ( as I see it) that line of yours which I made bold in your quote.
Maybe my age...or maybe the wording.

This simply refers to the times God would speak to me to do something that required my faith to trust that I am hearing from Him....for example when He spoke to me and said He wanted me to move to Tulsa....I replied I can't afford the move but if you want me to move then provide the way. That following Monday my boss called me into his office and said they were opening a district office in Tulsa and would I be willing to move there and establish the new location...and of course he said the company will pay all expenses.
I really am confused in how that was a rub.

As I showed above...in my own quote...I DID say, maybe it was how you worded it!!! That was how I read it!

No need for any confusion.....Just ignore it.

 

[Heart2Soul]

And there is the rub. ( as I see it) that line of yours which I made bold in your quote.
Maybe my age...or maybe the wording...but I have seen too many people calling things faith, which turned out to be presumption.

I do not fall in the group who - Do something "in faith" and expect to get a reward later in glory. ( "Look at all these things we did in Your Name..." )
Faith and fruit can only come via the hearing of the ear.
I KNOW that many "good, faith things" we did in our earlier days, "for God and His glory"...will vanish in a puff of smoke . They were 'good ideas' they were very sacrificially-looking ideas....they were Christian's ought to ideas...looked good and impressive.
But they were our ideas ...God did not speak them to us...a Pastor , a leader, a book, some preacher...

If the list in your quote were instigated by the Lord...then yes...they are indeed works of us co-working with the Lord...Gold, silver and precious stones ..and they will survive the test of fire.

Just saying...Satan likes to keep us busy...it can wear us out and also get us on the wrong track ( Martha and/ or Mary)

When we first had our church ..we would answer the phone at 2 am at night....get dressed and go out to whichever emergency was happening and " needed" us. Until a wise old retired pastor said to us...
"Beware....When your phone rings at any time or day or night...do you pause, check with the Holy Ghost and ask Him if this one is genuine, a "God call" or another antic of the devil to keep you busy.? God will lead you."

We never forgot that wise instruction ..and we made it a rule of our life...
Any "ought to" in our "works for God"...is usually not from Him...but some old religious thing...
" For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Romans 8:14


As I have said before...Isaac was 'God's idea' (led by God) ...Ishmael was Abrahams idea...NOT "led by God.
We have many more Ishmael's idea's in our lives and 'good-works' than we would even guess of. ( Many "ought to's)

But like all things..there is always a balance...and you hit it well when you mentioned a " Sacrifice of praise". Something that starts with us..
I like the phrase - " When the Wind of God is not blowing in your sails, ...start rowing!! "

I always look for a "Come" in everything.
If Peter had just stepped out of the boat ( his idea) and started walking on the water , he would have sunk right away.
But Peter wisely said - " Lord, BIDE me COME to You on the water" ......and Jesus said "Come".

When there is no Wind...we can ask God for a "Come"..
I see the Sacrifice of praise like that..as you mentioned.
We start, as it were, without Wind...no active movement of the Spirit within...and then, after a while ...we hear the Come of the Spirit ...and the wind blows ,

I'm not sure if I answered what you were asking, lol
Me, just rambling....

I think I am going to rephrase this.....if I am following the responses correctly the works that will be burned up....some are saying this refers to leadership and teachers? correct? and I am thinking that this may refer to our faith. But it could be both....I dunno.

 

[Heart2Soul]

What I said was



As I showed above...in my own quote...I DID say, maybe it was how you worded it!!! That was how I read it!

No need for any confusion.....Just ignore it.

LOL......I see what your saying now....lol. sorry....anyway this is a very good discussion on this thread and it has me thinking.

 

[GodsGrace]

Amazing how a simple teaching of Scripture can be so misunderstood and made complex by so many, even from someone who claims to be a teacher of the Bible!

I've already responded to this post, but just noticed something you've said above.
I NEVER said I'm a teacher of the bible!
I know what it is to teach this and I certainly am not one of them.
What I have said is that I've taught kids our faith.

And I also don't appreciate your saying I "claim" this as if I were lying.
If I say something that's how it is.
And, I repeat, I never said I teach the bible.
What nonsense I have to hear.

 

[GodsGrace]

You read it very differently than I do Fran.

It's every mans OWN WORKS which are burned....if they were not ordered of the Lord.
What the preachers teach or don't teach is "their works"...nothing to do with us.
WE are each responsible for what we 'hear' and chose to believe.

They cannot be blamed for what we choose to believe...
No man can stand before God and say..." That man's words sent me off the path." We are all without excuse before the Lord.

God said to Moses... re the Tabernacle - " Be sure that you build it according to the pattern that was shown thee on the Holy Mount."e the Teacher...we are responsible for US, no one else.

We HAVE the pattern...we have The Teacher, the Holy Spirit.
We are responsible , no excuses.
Luke 18 18 " Take heed therefore how ye hear...."

We are each a building block to fit into His Temple...this building block is being knocked, buffed, chipped and hammered upon until the day it fit perfectly into it's own Place.

Hi BG,
Sorry for the delay...been busy. I'm not ignoring you!

It's not how I read it. I don't make up my own ideas on scripture...it happens to be how most theologians interpret these verses.

I don't really understand what you mean by "works that are not ordered of the Lord". Any good work we do is ordered by Jesus. Isn't this what He preached?
To love ourselves and others? To love God which makes us want to do good?
Which good work could I do that God would not be pleased with?

I agree with you fully that we are responsible for what we hear and what we believe...but this is not what 1 Corinthians is speaking about. It is, instead, speaking exactly about teachers and preachers and what THEY teach us and HOW THEY are building upon the foundation Paul laid. A building does not build itself...it requires builders, even master builders, of which Paul is one.
Verse 10
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.

Paul is the master builder. HE laid the foundation. Another builder will build on it. Each man (builder) must be careful HOW he builds on it.
And what is IT? The BLDG, which is Us believers.
Paul is speaking about the builders, such as himself.

No one here is blaming Paul for anything.
I'm trying to get to the understanding of 1 Corinthians 3:5-17 which, as is apparent, is much misunderstood.

 

[Jun2u]

If it's so simple why don't we all understand this the same way?

Because God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak unto them, Mark 4:11-12 reads:
11) And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12) That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at anytime they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Verse 8 Is speaking about working together; Paul and Apollos

I don’t believe Paul is talking about working together with Apollos, rather he is setting up a principle that he is the masterbuilder (v. 10), who laid the foundation (Christ), which another builds upon (Apollos).

But are WE doing the same work THEY were doing?

Most definitely! You may not like it, but the idea is to send out the Gospel as per Matthew 28:19.

Are we going around the world preaching the gospel message?

Not all in the local congregations do but we do participate as we give tithes every Sunday to our local churches, and they in turn give funds to those ministries that sends out Pastors and ministers to different nations of the world.

Did Jesus give everyone the authority to do this or did He specifically give this authority to the Apostles in Mathew 28:19-20?

Every born again believer is mandated by Jesus to preach the Gospel not only did He gave command in Matthew 28:19, but also in Acts 1:8; 2:16-18.

Are YOU responsible for converting persons to Christianity or do we say that we preach it but the Holy Spirit has the responsibility of conversion?

I’ve covered this in the last sentence of post #65 but for your sake I’ll repeat here.

“And, if he doesn’t lead anyone to salvation, it is no big deal, because it is God who gives the increase (v,7) and does the saving! Romans 10:17.”

In Paul's time HE had the responsibility of conversion since he went specifically to preach and teach and convert. He and Apollos are the ministers, not us

This of course IS heresy not knowing the Gospel. You are taking away the glory from Jesus as the ONLY Savior of the world. Man, in and of himself, does not have the power nor the capacity to save himself let alone save another person!

This is the result when someone creates a thread without knowledge of what they are presenting. I think I’ll stop here.

To God Be The Glory

 

[GodsGrace]

Because God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak unto them, Mark 4:11-12 reads:
11) And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12) That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at anytime they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.



I don’t believe Paul is talking about working together with Apollos, rather he is setting up a principle that he is the masterbuilder (v. 10), who laid the foundation (Christ), which another builds upon (Apollos).



Most definitely! You may not like it, but the idea is to send out the Gospel as per Matthew 28:19.



Not all in the local congregations do but we do participate as we give tithes every Sunday to our local churches, and they in turn give funds to those ministries that sends out Pastors and ministers to different nations of the world.



Every born again believer is mandated by Jesus to preach the Gospel not only did He gave command in Matthew 28:19, but also in Acts 1:8; 2:16-18.



I’ve covered this in the last sentence of post #65 but for your sake I’ll repeat here.

“And, if he doesn’t lead anyone to salvation, it is no big deal, because it is God who gives the increase (v,7) and does the saving! Romans 10:17.”



This of course IS heresy not knowing the Gospel. You are taking away the glory from Jesus as the ONLY Savior of the world. Man, in and of himself, does not have the power nor the capacity to save himself let alone save another person!

This is the result when someone creates a thread without knowledge of what they are presenting. I think I’ll stop here.

To God Be The Glory

In that case, I see no reason to answer your post...even though I disagree with all of it.