Think of it this way, God put enmity in Genesis 3:15 between her seed and his seed. A woman doesn't carry seed, the man does............The Father placed the " word" which has always been, in the woman, He seeded her with His Son- the word, the seed of God Jesus Christ. All of His children were in the Father in eternity...Ephesians 1:4 says we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.
Who really was Jesus Christ?
- Thread starter John Zain
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My problem is with Christians who just don't understand what they read.
I.E. you have absolutely no idea what this thread is about.
Selene
New Member
Jesus is the Word of God who created everything in the Universe. In Genesis 1, God SAID "Let there be light." And there was Light. HIs WORD is what He said. His Word is Truth. Jesus said that He is the Truth. Whatever God SAID (Word) becomes, such as when He said, "Let there be light." The Word of God is Jesus who created all things. This Word came down in the flesh (as a human). Whatever Jesus spoke is Truth because He is God's Word. He came from God and is God.
When I say something, what I say are my word. If I break my word, no one would believe me. If I keep my word, then people learn that I am a trustworthy person. You cannot separate what I say from myself. In the same way, how can you separate what God say (His Word) from Himself? Jesus and God are one and the same.
John 1:1, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.....and the Word came down in the flesh and dwelled among us.
When I say something, what I say are my word. If I break my word, no one would believe me. If I keep my word, then people learn that I am a trustworthy person. You cannot separate what I say from myself. In the same way, how can you separate what God say (His Word) from Himself? Jesus and God are one and the same.
John 1:1, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.....and the Word came down in the flesh and dwelled among us.
What I've been trying to convince people is:
(1) The Word (the Logos) and Jesus Christ are not exactly the same because Jesus was also "fully man".
(2) The names/titles "Jesus" and "the Son of God" (when used in connection with Jesus Christ)
were first introduced by Gabriel in Matthew 1:21 and Luke 1:31,35.
(1) The Word (the Logos) and Jesus Christ are not exactly the same because Jesus was also "fully man".
(2) The names/titles "Jesus" and "the Son of God" (when used in connection with Jesus Christ)
were first introduced by Gabriel in Matthew 1:21 and Luke 1:31,35.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Read John17. V.4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do ( wait a second, Jesus hadn't been to the Cross yet)!? The finished work was already done before the foundation of the world.......How could He say that unless He was slain in the now ( eternity)? John 17:11 Now I AM no longer in the world, then were was He? As He says at the end of this verse, that they may be one as We are. They are He, and always have been. Most think in natural terms. We must begin to think Spiritualy. Paul wrote I Cor.15:46 the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
Selene
New Member
Yes, they are the same because Scripture said the Word came down in the flesh and dwelled among us.
Water is still water despite that it can change into ice or water vapor. It still has 1 atom of hydrogen and 2 atoms of oxygen regardless of what form it is. Any scientist can examine the form of ice, form of liquid water, and the form of water vapor. All three forms still contains 1 atom of hydrogen and 2 atoms of oxygen.
No, sorry, Scripture said/says the Word came down and BECAME flesh!
I'm going strictly on what the translations say ... without looking at the Greek, etc.
To me this means the Word took on the form of a human (He didn't come down in the form of a human).
The Word BECAME a human, but He remained "fully God" also.
Are we progressing at all yet?
John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.
(KJV)
That same Spirit was born into Mary's womb by The Holy Spirit and the result was The Only Begotten Son of God, Immanuel - God with us, in a flesh body like ours.
On the cross, Jesus' flesh body died, not His Spirit. (flesh is of flesh; spirit is of The Spirit).
You've got a 'spirit' inside you; all born in the flesh have 'spirit' inside their flesh body.
So why can't Christ have His Own Spirit in the flesh body He was born into through Mary???
Jewish teaching is wrong about our spirit and soul part. Our soul and spirit is NOT... dependent upon flesh. Soul and spirit can be separated from one's flesh body per God's Word (Eccl.12:5-7; Matt.10:28).
Thusly...
Jesus' flesh body = fully man
Jesus' Spirit in His flesh body = fully GOD
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.
(KJV)
That same Spirit was born into Mary's womb by The Holy Spirit and the result was The Only Begotten Son of God, Immanuel - God with us, in a flesh body like ours.
On the cross, Jesus' flesh body died, not His Spirit. (flesh is of flesh; spirit is of The Spirit).
You've got a 'spirit' inside you; all born in the flesh have 'spirit' inside their flesh body.
So why can't Christ have His Own Spirit in the flesh body He was born into through Mary???
Jewish teaching is wrong about our spirit and soul part. Our soul and spirit is NOT... dependent upon flesh. Soul and spirit can be separated from one's flesh body per God's Word (Eccl.12:5-7; Matt.10:28).
Thusly...
Jesus' flesh body = fully man
Jesus' Spirit in His flesh body = fully GOD
Veteran,
Of course ... when did I say otherwise?
IMO, Jesus was "The Only Begotten Son of God" because ...
Jesus Christ was the ONLY human to ever have God be His biological "father".
I.E. God the Holy Spirit served as Jesus' "father" through a mighty miracle of some sort
(either through placing sperm in Mary's ovaries, or through a creative miracle in Mary's womb.)
And then there's that little matter of those 2 RELATIVELY NEW names/titles:
"Jesus" and "the Son of God". Let's not forget about them!
Of course ... when did I say otherwise?
IMO, Jesus was "The Only Begotten Son of God" because ...
Jesus Christ was the ONLY human to ever have God be His biological "father".
I.E. God the Holy Spirit served as Jesus' "father" through a mighty miracle of some sort
(either through placing sperm in Mary's ovaries, or through a creative miracle in Mary's womb.)
And then there's that little matter of those 2 RELATIVELY NEW names/titles:
"Jesus" and "the Son of God". Let's not forget about them!
Selene
New Member
if Jesus is not God to you , then who is He to you? If you call him Lord and Savior, don't you know that God said there is no other Savior beside Him (God). I can see that you have trouble believing the Triune or Trinitarian God.
What do you think of Apostle Thomas for calling Jesus ,his Lord and his God ?
What do you think of Jesus for calling God , His Father ?and for Jesus using the titles of God ?
What do you think of Apostle Paul, for calling Jesus the image of the invisible God as he wrote to the Colossians ?
Why do you think the Old Testament prophets prophesied about Jesus ?
Why do you think God the Father glorified Him ?
Why do you think the Scripture referred to the Son, "thy throne O God " ?
Why do you think the whole bible talked about Jesus ?
Why do you think He is coming back to be the Judge ?
Why do you think He knows the minds and thoughts of men ?
Why do you think He was transfigured and Moses and Elijah talks to Him ?
Why do you think He said before Abraham, He is ?
Anyway I believe the proofs are overwhelming.
Christians believe that God came down in the form of humanity and is still 100% God and 100% human. It is possible for God to do this because He is God and He can do anything. Christians also believe that God is love just as it says in the Bible. Love does not keep itself afar. Apparantly, the god you believe in is distant and is limited in power.....because you can't believe that he can come down in the form of humanity. You need to fit God into your human logic in order to understand Him. Christians, on the other hand, operate by faith....not by human understanding because God can always defy human logic. I say believe whatever you want. The Christians are the ones who got it right. Faith is a gift from our God.
Selene,
I kinda thought you had your act together in "the quite okay" category.
But, now your little choo-choo train has done gone off dem rails.
I suggest you go back and do some re-reading (ah, thinking doesn't hurt also),
or simply give this one (thread) up. Whah happened to thou anyway?
Selene
New Member
How have I gone through the choo-choo train when it's obvious that you don't believe in the triune God that Christians believe in? This is why the Bible says that having "faith" is very important. God can defy human logic and your attempting to put everything about God and Jesus into human logic. That does not make any sense unless of course, you believe that the god you believe in is limited.
We've already given our versions and reasons why we believe Jesus is God. You, on the other hand, refuse to even see our viewpoint. You look at John 1:1 and John 1:14, and you say that only the Word came down in the flesh, but His name is not Jesus Christ; therefore, the Word can't be Jesus Christ because the names are different. If the Word and Jesus Christ are not the same person, then who exactly is the "Word" who came down? Where is this Word in the Bible that came down? Where did He go after He came down to earth and dwelled with me. St. John knew about Him because He mentioned Him.. And St. John told all the Christian converts who the Word was. This information was passed down to the Christians. So, it's not my fault that your ancestors never got this information and passed it down to you.
Selene,
Please give this thread up. You just cannot understand what I've been saying.
Truly, it's a matter of not understanding the meaning and value of words.
Therefore, you're wasting everyone's time. So, please move on to something else.
Please give this thread up. You just cannot understand what I've been saying.
Truly, it's a matter of not understanding the meaning and value of words.
Therefore, you're wasting everyone's time. So, please move on to something else.
Zain. The only one on this thread that seams to lack understanding and the ability to communicate, seems to be you...... perhaps you should give up this thread !!
pomp.
pomp.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
It's simply impossible to have a good discussion with people
who don't understand the meaning and value of words.
See, I just proved it ... because you have no idea what I'm talking about.
The meaning and value of words! ... What is this guy smoking?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
forgive me for looking at the 'man behind the curtain' - I admit it, your ego has gotten in the way of our discussion - call me an optimist, I really thought we could get past it and just talk - foiled again!
The chid conceived by Mary by virtue of the holy spirit was named Jesus. He has done many miracles to let people know about the love of God to man. Jesus is the son of God the Father sent on earth.
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