Who wants to Judge a Man of God who lives i Health and Prosperity??

[DNB]

I am myself; always have been, and always will be.

That's why you'll never change.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ron, I don't mean to be continuously defiant or contentious here, but there are reasons to believe that this guys deserves admonishing.
He has deliberately chosen to omit all the passages that denounce wealth, avarice, the world system, and coveting temporal things. He has not acknowledged a single person's contention on the this thread so far, and there has been many, some as vehement as mine.

He's not sincere, Ron, the evidence is right before us. Maybe you're assuming that I always come off heavy handed to all doctrine or precepts that I disagree with, but not at all. For, I am convinced that kind and gentle words will have absolutely no impact on this guy, in order to make him appreciate the folly and subversive ways of his views. So that, if my perception is correct about his lack of desire to do what's right, but just wants to justify his perverted ways, then all that I can say Ron, is that your remedy will be entirely impotent with him. In other words, my denunciation is largely for others to read, also.

HI DNB:

Let me first say I am not thinking anything of you as to how you may or may not respond. what I am concerned about is the attitude that seems to be in your writing towards this person.

He is heretical. He preaches false doctrines. These doctrines do harm to people. all of these are true! Does He need rebuke? Yes So rebuke Him. Admonish Him. Even warn Him! Be angry, but sin not! do not let teh sun go down on YOUR anger! Remember any and everything you do in response to this person is to restore and reconcile them to teh Lord! If they will not- shake the dust off your feet! Many times God uses our emotionsd to signal us it is time to move on. If you seethe over the wrong this person is promoting and it happens daily- admonish him in love and move on.

Just remember if you are concerned --How much more is God concerned. I write because I care for you and do not wish to see you get ensnared in harsh emotions that will color your thinking in a negative way.

 

[justbyfaith]

That's why you'll never change.

Let me qualify my statement by saying that the Lord changed me (made me born again) about 30 years back. I have still, always been myself. He did not make me, not myself, when He gave me new life. While He did place a new heart and a new spirit within me.

 

[justbyfaith]

HI DNB:

Let me first say I am not thinking anything of you as to how you may or may not respond. what I am concerned about is the attitude that seems to be in your writing towards this person.

He is heretical. He preaches false doctrines. These doctrines do harm to people. all of these are true! Does He need rebuke? Yes So rebuke Him. Admonish Him. Even warn Him! Be angry, but sin not! do not let teh sun go down on YOUR anger! Remember any and everything you do in response to this person is to restore and reconcile them to teh Lord! If they will not- shake the dust off your feet! Many times God uses our emotionsd to signal us it is time to move on. If you seethe over the wrong this person is promoting and it happens daily- admonish him in love and move on.

Just remember if you are concerned --How much more is God concerned. I write because I care for you and do not wish to see you get ensnared in harsh emotions that will color your thinking in a negative way.

Jesus said,

Luk 6:39, And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

 

[DNB]

HI DNB:

Let me first say I am not thinking anything of you as to how you may or may not respond. what I am concerned about is the attitude that seems to be in your writing towards this person.

He is heretical. He preaches false doctrines. These doctrines do harm to people. all of these are true! Does He need rebuke? Yes So rebuke Him. Admonish Him. Even warn Him! Be angry, but sin not! do not let teh sun go down on YOUR anger! Remember any and everything you do in response to this person is to restore and reconcile them to teh Lord! If they will not- shake the dust off your feet! Many times God uses our emotionsd to signal us it is time to move on. If you seethe over the wrong this person is promoting and it happens daily- admonish him in love and move on.

Just remember if you are concerned --How much more is God concerned. I write because I care for you and do not wish to see you get ensnared in harsh emotions that will color your thinking in a negative way.

Thank you Ron, ...but, I believe that I used the proper measure of indignation, and made it clear to everybody how sinister his sentiments and rhetoric were, ...and where they were derived from.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Thank you Ron, ...but, I believe that I used the proper measure of indignation, and made it clear to everybody how sinister his sentiments and rhetoric were, ...and were they were derived from.

Ok, now shake the dust off your feet and move on from that discussion with them. To pursue it if they have deaf ears is stubborness on your part and that is wrong! We can lead the horse to water, but can't make them drink. Now is the time to let God deal with them through the Word you shared.

 

[DNB]

Let me qualify my statement by saying that the Lord changed me (made me born again) about 30 years back. I have still, always been myself. He did not make me, not myself, when He gave me new life. While He did place a new heart and a new spirit within me.

So he what, refurbished you, remodeled you? Sent you in for an upgrade? Were you still under warranty, or did you get an extended warranty. Does the change of heart come with an oil change and 5 point lube job also? Does the new spirit that He gave you, have an expiry date?

 

[DNB]

Ok, now shake the dust off your feet and move on from that discussion with them. To pursue it if they have deaf ears is stubborness on your part and that is wrong! We can lead the horse to water, but can't make them drink. Now is the time to let God deal with them through the Word you shared.

You are the only one protracting the issue? I said a couple of times, early on, what I thought of his rubbish, and then responded to other people's posts to me on various concerns. If this monkey continues to spew out his demonic corruption, I'm going to keep calling a spade a spade, as much as I can tolerate or care to spend the time on. Again, there are others reading this thread too, people both want and need to know that his views are not unanimous, and to what degree.
Again, the only reason that I keep coming back to this thread is because you, or others, keep responding to me. I appreciate your concern, but I'm getting the impression now that you're just too delicate about this, and are failing to understand this guy, or appreciate when austerity is required?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are the only one protracting the issue? I said a couple of times, early on, what I thought of his rubbish, and then responded to other people's posts to me on various concerns. If this monkey continues to spew out his demonic corruption, I'm going to keep calling a spade a spade, as much as I can tolerate or care to spend the time on. Again, there are others reading this thread too, people both want and need to know that his views are not unanimous, and to what degree.
Again, the only reason that I keep coming back to this thread is because you, or others, keep responding to me. I appreciate your concern, but I'm getting the impression now that you're just too delicate about this, and are failing to understand this guy, or appreciate when austerity is required?

If you read many of my posts on many issues here, you would not have that impression in the least.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I don't agree with the Prosperity Message, but I do think some Prosperity Ministers do have a "gift of faith." They may get some amazing answers to prayer. But I think it's discouraging to some when they make a doctrine out of it, because it doesn't work for all. I thank God they're at least preaching the Gospel of Christ!

There is certainly a biblical basis for being prospered for our obedience, such as in the Law of Moses. Israel was promised blessings if they obeyed God's word.

So it's true that prosperity, of some kind, will fall upon those who are obedient in the covenant of Christ. I just won't say precisely what that blessing will look like. Christians sometimes suffer, as well. And it's my burden to strengthen them, so that they aren't disillusioned by it.

I don't believe that prosperity preachers like Kenny Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, or Joyce Meyer are born again. They represent counterfeit Charismatic and preach doctrines of devils while they ignore the Bible, or pervert the Scriptures to support their heretical views. So I don't think these people have the gift of faith at all. They are not making their money through faith, but are tricking uninformed people in their hundreds of thousands to contribute to their personal bank accounts through false promises of prosperity and guaranteed healing.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You are free to live in sickness and poverty if you so choose but I choose to believe for and accept the blessings, protection,and gifts from God!

You can believe for stuff until the cows come home, but your believing will make no difference to the sovereignty of God, in that He does what He sees fit. He is not a vending machine to hand out our material wants. We have no power of choice, nor do we have any rights. He is the potter and we are the clay, and the clay does not tell the potter, "Why have you made me thus?" The Potter makes vessels of honour and dishonour as He pleases. We have nothing except what has been given to us by the grace and mercy of God. There are millions of faithful believers in Christ in Asia, South America, and Africa who live in poverty and yet they love the Lord and their greatest blessing is that they are alive, even though they live in a tin or cardboard shack and have just enough food to keep them and their families alive. It is significant that there are more genuine miracles and healing in these communities than what we see in our more affluent Western Christian communities. Faithful, gospel-oriented believers in the third world would just laugh at prosperity preaching and treat it as the heresy it is.

 

[DNB]

If you read many of my posts on many issues here, you would not have that impression in the least.

Maybe so, and probably so, but I cannot appreciate why you're not acknowledging the justification behind my stance now?
Apparently, we both agree on certain ways in order to handle an issue, and you claim, as you just did, that you're willing to be austere when required. The difference appears to be then, that we have a different view on how to deal with GISMYS. I think that he's showing an innate corruption, you don't. I think that you're wrong, and that I'm right for the evident reasons that I gave - he's not open to contention, and has not addressed, or harmonized with his view, the overwhelming amount of Scripture that denounces wealth.

 

[justbyfaith]

So he what, refurbished you, remodeled you? Sent you in for an upgrade? Were you still under warranty, or did you get an extended warranty. Does the change of heart come with an oil change and 5 point lube job also? Does the new spirit that He gave you, have an expiry date?

You appear to be mocking the born again experience...a sure sign that you are not born again yourself (if it really be the case that you are mocking the born again experience).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Maybe so, and probably so, but I cannot appreciate why you're not acknowledging the justification behind my stance now?
Apparently, we both agree on certain ways in order to handle an issue, and you claim, as you just did, that you're willing to be austere when required. The difference appears to be then, that we have a different view on how to deal with GISMYS. I think that he's showing an innate corruption, you don't. I think that you're wrong, and that I'm right for the evident reasons that I gave - he's not open to contention, and has not addressed, or harmonized with his view, the overwhelming amount of Scripture that denounces wealth.

Then let me ask you a simple question or two.

Why do you wish to continue to debate him?
Is there a probable hope of you turning him?
What is your heart attitude toward this person?
do you weep because they may be lost and so deceived?
Do you weep because they may be saved and ensnared in a huge lie?

Jesus said if they won't listen to us- shake the dust off our feet and move on!

I can't read peoples souls . We are forbidden to- so I don't see how we can discern innate corruption unless you have had a special direct revelation form god on teh matter.

But the problem is there is no Scripture that denounces wealth. there are many that denounce an inordinate desire to obtain wealth.

Both Jesus and Paul were partially funded on their missions by very wealthy women.

 

[GISMYS_7]

You can believe for stuff until the cows come home, but your believing will make no difference to the sovereignty of God, in that He does what He sees fit. He is not a vending machine to hand out our material wants. We have no power of choice, nor do we have any rights. He is the potter and we are the clay, and the clay does not tell the potter, "Why have you made me thus?" The Potter makes vessels of honour and dishonour as He pleases. We have nothing except what has been given to us by the grace and mercy of God. There are millions of faithful believers in Christ in Asia, South America, and Africa who live in poverty and yet they love the Lord and their greatest blessing is that they are alive, even though they live in a tin or cardboard shack and have just enough food to keep them and their families alive. It is significant that there are more genuine miracles and healing in these communities than what we see in our more affluent Western Christian communities. Faithful, gospel-oriented believers in the third world would just laugh at prosperity preaching and treat it as the heresy it is.

Without belief and faith you cannot please GOD!!! And you??\
God says My people are destroyed by the lack of knowledge!

 

[DNB]

Then let me ask you a simple question or two.

Why do you wish to continue to debate him?
Is there a probable hope of you turning him?
What is your heart attitude toward this person?
do you weep because they may be lost and so deceived?
Do you weep because they may be saved and ensnared in a huge lie?

Jesus said if they won't listen to us- shake the dust off our feet and move on!

I can't read peoples souls . We are forbidden to- so I don't see how we can discern innate corruption unless you have had a special direct revelation form god on teh matter.

But the problem is there is no Scripture that denounces wealth. there are many that denounce an inordinate desire to obtain wealth.

Both Jesus and Paul were partially funded on their missions by very wealthy women.

That speak of the perils of wealth, rather. There is a myriad of verses that address the futility of placing one's hope and treasures into temporal and corruptible things. However it is stated, either refrain from wealth, live by the spirit and not flesh, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, you cannot take anything with you when you die, etc... You get the point. ...apparently, GISMYS doesn't.
Again Ron, I am not continuing the debate, you are. I said my piece assertively and emphatically, I think that he's shallow and misguided, and that was quite a few posts ago.

Do I care of his well-being - obviously, I'm the one telling him where the problem lies, and thus, how to correct it. You, on the other hand, refuse to shame him so that he does not recognize the egregious nature of what he is professing.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Without belief and faith you cannot please GOD!!! And you??\
God says My people are destroyed by the lack of knowledge!

Faith is not a power in itself. If you are using faith as a power you are engaging in sorcery. Faith is believing the promises of God. God has not promised automatic material prosperity. You can believe for it until hell freezes over but it will never happen because the belief comes from personal desire rather than in the promise of God. The lack of knowledge that destroys people is the lack of Biblical knowledge, which causes people to believe things that are not in the Bible. If you are believing for things that God has not promised in Scripture then your belief is not Biblical faith at all. It is presumption, which is a grievous sin which will bring chastening from the Lord for a born again believer, and condemnation in hell for an unconverted sinner.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Believe God's Word==God has promised==3John 1:2 Beloved, I wish """above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health"""", even as thy soul prospereth.====Psalm 112:3 """Wealth and riches shall be in his house:""" and his righteousness endureth for ever. Psalm 35:27 Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
Yes!!! God wants to bless His family with health and prosperity but you are free to reject the gifts of God and live poor and sick= your choice!

 

[Nancy]

Believe God's Word==God has promised==3John 1:2 Beloved, I wish """above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health"""", even as thy soul prospereth.====Psalm 112:3 """Wealth and riches shall be in his house:""" and his righteousness endureth for ever. Psalm 35:27 Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
Yes!!! God wants to bless His family with health and prosperity but you are free to reject the gifts of God and live poor and sick= your choice!

And, what may I ask do you do with all your nice shiny material "things" and the riches that you do have??
Maybe it's time to seek HIM and not tread The God of all creation as a magic genie. Wow...do you EVER have anything else to write about but all this prosperity? The bible does have 66 books ya know. But, you seem to stick with ONE thing (oops, oh yeah, the pre trib rapture too) to the detriment of all the deep things of God. Or, are you just interested in these 2 erroneous doctrines??

 

[Paul Christensen]

Believe God's Word==God has promised==3John 1:2 Beloved, I wish """above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health"""", even as thy soul prospereth.====Psalm 112:3 """Wealth and riches shall be in his house:""" and his righteousness endureth for ever. Psalm 35:27 Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
Yes!!! God wants to bless His family with health and prosperity but you are free to reject the gifts of God and live poor and sick= your choice!

This is not material prosperity, but spiritual. There are Scriptures that speak of the deceitfulness of riches, and that having riches causes more problems that solutions. The Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself when He says that the love of money is the root of all evil, and speaks against those who seek after material wealth. The quest for material wealth was unknown in the Early church. The way that resources were managed by the Apostles was that no-one lacked what they needed in terms of food, shelter and clothing, and others had nothing surplus. The position of a group having material wealth and another group in absolute poverty, as is the case in our modern churches, was not only unknown in the Early church, but was seen as sinful greed and coveting. Questing for greater material wealth is a violation of the Commandment, "Thou shalt not covet". Therefore, the Holy Spirit is not going to promise material prosperity and condemn coveting at the same time. That would be a contradiction. But a person can be in a state where he or she barely gets their shelter, clothing and food needs met and yet be totally prosperous in the Lord with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places. Therefore, the prosperity preaching of the false apostles is inciting just plain greed in their deluded listeners.