Who wants to Judge a Man of God who lives i Health and Prosperity??

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Paul Christensen

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And, what may I ask do you do with all your nice shiny material "things" and the riches that you do have??
Maybe it's time to seek HIM and not tread The God of all creation as a magic genie. Wow...do you EVER have anything else to write about but all this prosperity? The bible does have 66 books ya know. But, you seem to stick with ONE thing (oops, oh yeah, the pre trib rapture too) to the detriment of all the deep things of God. Or, are you just interested in these 2 erroneous doctrines??
I agree entirely with the first part of your comment; however, how do you explain Paul in Thessalonians when he said that the dead in Christ shall rise first and then we who are alive will be caught up to meet Him in the air?
 

justbyfaith

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But, you seem to stick with ONE thing (oops, oh yeah, the pre trib rapture too)


He also promotes the sinner's prayer from time to time.

Therefore, the Holy Spirit is not going to promise material prosperity and condemn coveting at the same time. That would be a contradiction.

I believe that a person can be given material prosperity apart from their coveting it and maybe even because they are not coveting.
 

Paul Christensen

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He also promotes the sinner's prayer from time to time.
I believe that a person can be given material prosperity apart from their coveting it and maybe even because they are not coveting.
Quite so, but it would be according to the sovereignty of God for a particular purpose in His own mind; not because the individual "believed" or sought for it.
 
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GISMYS_7

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This is not material prosperity, but spiritual. There are Scriptures that speak of the deceitfulness of riches, and that having riches causes more problems that solutions. The Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself when He says that the love of money is the root of all evil, and speaks against those who seek after material wealth. The quest for material wealth was unknown in the Early church. The way that resources were managed by the Apostles was that no-one lacked what they needed in terms of food, shelter and clothing, and others had nothing surplus. The position of a group having material wealth and another group in absolute poverty, as is the case in our modern churches, was not only unknown in the Early church, but was seen as sinful greed and coveting. Questing for greater material wealth is a violation of the Commandment, "Thou shalt not covet". Therefore, the Holy Spirit is not going to promise material prosperity and condemn coveting at the same time. That would be a contradiction. But a person can be in a state where he or she barely gets their shelter, clothing and food needs met and yet be totally prosperous in the Lord with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places. Therefore, the prosperity preaching of the false apostles is inciting just plain greed in their deluded listeners.

LOL!!! Get real!!! This is not "spiritual wealth==Psalm 112:3 """Wealth and riches shall be in his house:""" No need to "quest" just believe and accept!!
 

Heart2Soul

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Not when he promotes this subversive corruption as Gospel. You're right about patience, but not about his condoning a drive or covetousness, for avarice and mammon. It is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to find salvation. There should be no tolerance for his perverted views, only unless he was 12 or 16 years old, otherwise he should be old enough to know how offensive wealth, in its various forms, can be.
If his faith is in believing God to provide for him wealth and prosperity then who are you to try to hinder his faith? All throughout the OT we read about the great wealth God gave to His people. He even told the Israel people to go and possess the land.
When the Pharoah of Egypt finally let His people go they loaded them with gold, jewels and fine linens and oils.
 

Paul Christensen

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LOL!!! Get real!!! This is not "spiritual wealth==Psalm 112:3 """Wealth and riches shall be in his house:""" No need to "quest" just believe and accept!!
If wealth and riches come to you just by believing and accepting, you should have them right now. You wouldn't have to work hard for them like normal people would. You could become a prosperity preacher, promising wealth and riches to those who contribute their $30 seed faith to your ministry, because those guys are the only ones who are getting wealthy in ministry these days. We normal people have to work for our income. Or you could take lottery tickets each week and believe that you will win the several million dollars first prize.
 

justbyfaith

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Quite so, but it would be according to the sovereignty of God for a particular purpose in His own mind; not because the individual "believed" or sought for it.
There is a prayer in Psalms 118:25 that I think you should understand.

The person who prays it may indeed not be a covetous person; but prays it because he knows that "money answereth all things." (Ecclesiastes 10:19).
 

Paul Christensen

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If his faith is in believing God to provide for him wealth and prosperity then who are you to try to hinder his faith? All throughout the OT we read about the great wealth God gave to His people. He even told the Israel people to go and possess the land.
When the Pharoah of Egypt finally let His people go they loaded them with gold, jewels and fine linens and oils.
Quoting Scripture out of its natural context to prove a point is not convincing. I'm not opposed to Christian believers having wealth, because many, through God's sovereign grace are rich; but they did not acquire their wealth by covetous means or hungering and thirsting for it. And those who are wealthy, know that they received it as an unsolicited gift from God and for a particular purpose and they are willing to allow the Holy Spirit to guide them as good stewards of their money. George Mueller received millions of dollars during his ministry, and he gave all of it away to those in need. That is why God kept providing him with all the money he needed to support his ministry. Smith Wigglesworth was one of the greatest examples of faith in modern history, and yet when he died, all he owned was a modest three bedroom bungalow in Bradford England. When Oral Roberts died, all he owned was a modest condominium and a relatively small bank balance. This is worlds away from a false prosperity teacher extorting money from mom and pop couples with modest incomes to use for his own gratification and extension of his mansion, land, motor vehicles and jet aircraft. You don't see those covetors giving the bulk of their incomes away to missions.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Quoting Scripture out of its natural context to prove a point is not convincing. I'm not opposed to Christian believers having wealth, because many, through God's sovereign grace are rich; but they did not acquire their wealth by covetous means or hungering and thirsting for it. And those who are wealthy, know that they received it as an unsolicited gift from God and for a particular purpose and they are willing to allow the Holy Spirit to guide them as good stewards of their money. George Mueller received millions of dollars during his ministry, and he gave all of it away to those in need. That is why God kept providing him with all the money he needed to support his ministry. Smith Wigglesworth was one of the greatest examples of faith in modern history, and yet when he died, all he owned was a modest three bedroom bungalow in Bradford England. When Oral Roberts died, all he owned was a modest condominium and a relatively small bank balance. This is worlds away from a false prosperity teacher extorting money from mom and pop couples with modest incomes to use for his own gratification and extension of his mansion, land, motor vehicles and jet aircraft. You don't see those covetors giving the bulk of their incomes away to missions.
Prove that I quoted scripture out of context.
Let me ask you this....if you could choose who would you want to own all the businesses, land, gold...etc...
God or Satan?
Christian's or nonbelievers?
Good or Evil?
Now I know you Paul. You will try to avoid answering the question directly. But do try without pandering to your biases.
 

GISMYS_7

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Believe God's Word====3John 1:2 Beloved, I wish """above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health"""", even as thy soul prospereth.====Psalm 112:3 """Wealth and riches shall be in his house:""" and his righteousness endureth for ever. Psalm 35:27 Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
Yes!!! God wants to bless His family with health and prosperity but you are free to reject the gifts of God and live poor and sick= your choice!
 

amadeus

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LOL!!! Get real!!! This is not "spiritual wealth==Psalm 112:3 """Wealth and riches shall be in his house:""" No need to "quest" just believe and accept!!
And what is the house in these verses?

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:" II Cor 5:1-2

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." I Peter 2:5
 

ChristisGod

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There is a prayer in Psalms 118:25 that I think you should understand.

The person who prays it may indeed not be a covetous person; but prays it because he knows that "money answereth all things." (Ecclesiastes 10:19).
This is another case where you are misusing and applying scripture disregarding its context, purpose and application.

do you know Ecclesiastes was written from a human perspective " under heaven" apart from the knowledge of God?

The meaning of life can only come from God in the heavens which he sums up at the end of the book.

I, the Teacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 I applied my mind to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under the heavens. What a heavy burden God has laid on mankind! 14 I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

15 What is crooked cannot be straightened;
what is lacking cannot be counted.

16 I said to myself, “Look, I have increased in wisdom more than anyone who has ruled over Jerusalem before me; I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge.” 17 Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind.

hope this helps !!!
 

Paul Christensen

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Prove that I quoted scripture out of context.
Let me ask you this....if you could choose who would you want to own all the businesses, land, gold...etc...
God or Satan?
Christian's or nonbelievers?
Good or Evil?
Now I know you Paul. You will try to avoid answering the question directly. But do try without pandering to your biases.
The fact is that this world and everything in it will pass away, and that those who are friends with the world are no friends of God, and this includes those who hunger after worldly riches and goods. God promises to meet all our needs according to His riches in glory. All we can expect through God's grace is that we will be provided with shelter, food, and clothing; but there is no guarantee about the quality of these things. In Haiti, many faithful live in tin shacks, have just enough food to get them by, and clothes that are a little better than rags, but the quality of their faith in Christ far surpasses those in the west who live in expensive homes, have the highest labelled clothing, and eat the best of food. But good luck to you if you are questing after wealth and riches. I hope you will get there so that you can build "bigger barns" (ie: larger homes) and live a life of leisure so you no longer have to work for a living; but beware that one day your soul will be required of you. What will it profit you if you gained the whole world (owned all the wealth, businesses, and gold) and end up losing your soul? I am not the first who said it. Jesus said it first.
 

Paul Christensen

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This is another case where you are misusing and applying scripture disregarding its context, purpose and application.

do you know Ecclesiastes was written from a human perspective " under heaven" apart from the knowledge of God?

The meaning of life can only come from God in the heavens which he sums up at the end of the book.

I, the Teacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 I applied my mind to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under the heavens. What a heavy burden God has laid on mankind! 14 I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

15 What is crooked cannot be straightened;
what is lacking cannot be counted.

16 I said to myself, “Look, I have increased in wisdom more than anyone who has ruled over Jerusalem before me; I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge.” 17 Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind.

hope this helps !!!
Yes! Solomon had all the riches, homes, assets, and wives that he desired, yet at the end of his life, it all amounted to nothing, prompting him to say, "All is vanity". This is an object lesson for those who are questing after wealth and riches. When a person gets old and can no longer have the quality of life to enjoy it all, there is nothing left because the person has spent his life going after money and goods and has put Christ in second place. That is the price to pay for neglecting to leave everything in the hands of a sovereign God.
 
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Heart2Soul

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The fact is that this world and everything in it will pass away, and that those who are friends with the world are no friends of God, and this includes those who hunger after worldly riches and goods. God promises to meet all our needs according to His riches in glory. All we can expect through God's grace is that we will be provided with shelter, food, and clothing; but there is no guarantee about the quality of these things. In Haiti, many faithful live in tin shacks, have just enough food to get them by, and clothes that are a little better than rags, but the quality of their faith in Christ far surpasses those in the west who live in expensive homes, have the highest labelled clothing, and eat the best of food. But good luck to you if you are questing after wealth and riches. I hope you will get there so that you can build "bigger barns" (ie: larger homes) and live a life of leisure so you no longer have to work for a living; but beware that one day your soul will be required of you. What will it profit you if you gained the whole world (owned all the wealth, businesses, and gold) and end up losing your soul? I am not the first who said it. Jesus said it first.
As per usual you gave me your interpretation of what you believe.
I am a not in agreement with what you believe.
He is our Father. He even instructs us to provide an inheritance for our children.
And we have His inheritance. Whatever belongs to Him we are also partakers because we are His children.
I will just humbly agree tone disagree.
Have a good day.
 

GISMYS_7

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And what is the house in these verses?

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:" II Cor 5:1-2

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." I Peter 2:5

LOL!!! Most people lived a house even 2000 years ago!
 

Ronald Nolette

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That speak of the perils of wealth, rather. There is a myriad of verses that address the futility of placing one's hope and treasures into temporal and corruptible things. However it is stated, either refrain from wealth, live by the spirit and not flesh, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, you cannot take anything with you when you die, etc... You get the point. ...apparently, GISMYS doesn't.
Again Ron, I am not continuing the debate, you are. I said my piece assertively and emphatically, I think that he's shallow and misguided, and that was quite a few posts ago.

Do I care of his well-being - obviously, I'm the one telling him where the problem lies, and thus, how to correct it. You, on the other hand, refuse to shame him so that he does not recognize the egregious nature of what he is professing.

If he is unwilling to listen to you, why do you continue the debate then? I agree with all the things you have reported! but if he is unwilling to change why continue?

I am not debating you , I am asking you to look at what is motivating you right now to keep the debate going with Gysmsis.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Without belief and faith you cannot please GOD!!! And you??\
God says My people are destroyed by the lack of knowledge!

YOu misapply verses to think that God is a coin operated vending machine. Believe what we want and bingo, god will be a good guy and give us what we swish.

King James Version
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

God gives us what we ask only when it conforms to His will and not our deisres!
 
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Paul Christensen

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As per usual you gave me your interpretation of what you believe.
I am a not in agreement with what you believe.
He is our Father. He even instructs us to provide an inheritance for our children.
And we have His inheritance. Whatever belongs to Him we are also partakers because we are His children.
I will just humbly agree tone disagree.
Have a good day.
Of course the Scripture says that the more God gives to a person, the more is expected of that person. If you are desiring greater wealth and prosperity then you need to be prepared for the extra responsibility that brings. If God gives you wealth and you use it just for yourself, then you could be in a position at the Judgment when it will be revealed that you embezzled what God gave you instead of being a good steward, obeying God in how He wants you to use the wealth He gives you. People like Kenneth Copeland, who is using his wealth for his own gratification, will be revealed as a thief and an embezzler of what God put in his care. The Scripture talks about the deceitfulness of riches, that draws the heart away from Christ. Jesus told the rich young ruler to give his riches away and to follow Him, not because the young man was wealthy, but that Jesus knew that his heart was in his wealth and the only way to get his heart right was to separate himself from his wealth. Because the young man's heart was in his wealth, it was dragging him down into hell, and in the end, it was not his wealth that blocked him from being able to follow Jesus, it was his heart that was in his wealth. Kenny Copeland preached that poor people are faithless and of no account to God. That shows how deceived the man is to believe a demonic doctrine like that.
 
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ChristisGod

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Of course the Scripture says that the more God gives to a person, the more is expected of that person. If you are desiring greater wealth and prosperity then you need to be prepared for the extra responsibility that brings. If God gives you wealth and you use it just for yourself, then you could be in a position at the Judgment when it will be revealed that you embezzled what God gave you instead of being a good steward, obeying God in how He wants you to use the wealth He gives you. People like Kenneth Copeland, who is using his wealth for his own gratification, will be revealed as a thief and an embezzler of what God put in his care. The Scripture talks about the deceitfulness of riches, that draws the heart away from Christ. Jesus told the rich young ruler to give his riches away and to follow Him, not because the young man was wealthy, but that Jesus knew that his heart was in his wealth and the only way to get his heart right was to separate himself from his wealth. Because the young man's heart was in his wealth, it was dragging him down into hell, and in the end, it was not his wealth that blocked him from being able to follow Jesus, it was his heart that was in his wealth. Kenny Copeland preached that poor people are faithless and of no account to God. That shows how deceived the man is to believe a demonic doctrine like that.
Yes the entire word of faith movement is from the devil and his cohorts in crime.
 
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