Who was Job's accuser?

[bbyrd009]

I think you could be mixing up opinions with faith, otherwise I don't know what you are getting at.

hmm, i would rather reveal how "beliefs" and opinions are usually synonymous, as opposed to "faith," which is to me a different subject.

So iow i think most ppl could be mixing up belief with faith, and my recent discussions on the matter reveal that many believers, across several forums, hold the two as being synonymous in every regard, and all of them (so far, haven't checked everywhere today yet) that do that refuse to even entertain the Bible's delineation of the two, no matter how i present it; the post(s) will not even be acknowledged. Not by anyone.

 

[Helen]

@bbyrd009 I always see it as Trust is for today..until our end....
Faith is in The Person of God Himself. In every breath...I'm never sure when trust finishes and faith begins...there again, can we trust if we don't have faith?
I doubt it. Faith is something solid to walk upon. Trust to be..is more of cozy childlike peace and rest.
and there again...maybe I just have no idea what I am talking about!

 

[jimd]

well i don't, but to reply to your intent here, because "having faith" does not = overcoming, essentially.

Believing Jesus did it all does not = picking up your cross and following.

There is a dichotomy in "My yoke is easy" and "Count the cost."

pick one

I spent my spare time yesterday "in the garden of Eden" with skyangle, what happened to him/her? the thread seemed to end rather abruptly back in July. I found it rather interesting in the beginning. What did you think?
You are right, Believing Jesus did it all does not = picking up your cross and following but give them a chance to pick up the cross, then you will know if they truly believe.
Because the yoke is easy does not mean there is no cost, right?

 

[jimd]

@bbyrd009 I always see it as Trust is for today..until our end....
Faith is in The Person of God Himself. In every breath...I'm never sure when trust finishes and faith begins...there again, can we trust if we don't have faith?
I doubt it. Faith is something solid to walk upon. Trust to be..is more of cozy childlike peace and rest.
and there again...maybe I just have no idea what I am talking about!

Me thinks you know what you are talking about:)

 

[jimd]

ham good one. No, that would be another extreme imo, and my best word here is that nothing is really hard to do, when one starts trying to do it. As a matter of fact most people get really uncomfortable doing nothing for any amount of time. I'm trying to adroitly tie that in with "if you can't be happy with nothing, you won't be happy with anything," which is imo a corollary to that, but i agree with you that the cure is surely not to do more, but rather to desire...less.

Or at least to examine how it is our desires that lead to our works; all of them. Every single work begins as a desire. I think.

I suppose they begin with wanting to please God.

 

[jimd]

who gets to define "faith" there? what do you mean by faith here?

Only God can define faith but it seems to be something He provides each one and we make of it whatever we will. To me it means I believe in Him in such a way that I trust Him with my life and that it will make a difference.

 

[jimd]

hmm, i would rather reveal how "beliefs" and opinions are usually synonymous, as opposed to "faith," which is to me a different subject.

So iow i think most ppl could be mixing up belief with faith, and my recent discussions on the matter reveal that many believers, across several forums, hold the two as being synonymous in every regard, and all of them (so far, haven't checked everywhere today yet) that do that refuse to even entertain the Bible's delineation of the two, no matter how i present it; the post(s) will not even be acknowledged. Not by anyone.

I see what you mean. I made a stab at it above so give me your definition and maybe we can discuss it more.

 

[bbyrd009]

@bbyrd009 I always see it as Trust is for today..until our end....
Faith is in The Person of God Himself. In every breath...I'm never sure when trust finishes and faith begins...there again, can we trust if we don't have faith?
I doubt it. Faith is something solid to walk upon. Trust to be..is more of cozy childlike peace and rest.
and there again...maybe I just have no idea what I am talking about!

ha, i hear you lol. Me neither. but i can note that "faith" and "beliefs" are two (actually three, i guess) different words in the Book, in the original anyway.

 

[bbyrd009]

I spent my spare time yesterday "in the garden of Eden" with skyangle, what happened to him/her? the thread seemed to end rather abruptly back in July. I found it rather interesting in the beginning. What did you think?

i guess she got banned, i can't tag her now. Which is imo a shame, yes.@skyangel

 

[bbyrd009]

I suppose they begin with wanting to please God.

i suppose that is the justification anyway, ya

 

[Helen]

Me thinks you know what you are talking about:)

Ha! One can always hope eh. :)

Yes, Skyangel got banned as bbyrd009 said. She was a she...
Have a good one... H

 

[bbyrd009]

Only God can define faith but it seems to be something He provides each one and we make of it whatever we will. To me it means I believe in Him in such a way that I trust Him with my life and that it will make a difference.

nice, i agree, but i note that this description also comports with those compelled to look to the Snake on a Pole to relieve their snakebites, too.

 

[bbyrd009]

I see what you mean. I made a stab at it above so give me your definition and maybe we can discuss it more.

boy, doubt i could improve on yours, and we are talking about a kind of a mystery here i guess. "Demons also believe," is one way that the Book puts it, right. The only thing left at that point imo is to Lex "faith" and "beliefs" to find the root words, as i have already done many times, and read the three definitions for oneself. And this is obscured because many current translations write out "faith" and insert "belief," never the other way around hmm.

i'll put a list below, i'm up to five defs now

 

[jimd]

ha, i hear you lol. Me neither. but i can note that "faith" and "beliefs" are two (actually three, i guess) different words in the Book, in the original anyway.

I know a guy who says there are five different definitions and he considers himself a Greek scholar.

 

[jimd]

nice, i agree, but i note that this description also comports with those compelled to look to the Snake on a Pole to relieve their snakebites, too.

Have you ever thought about if you were surrounded by poisonous snakes how difficult it would be to look up and the correlation to walking in sin and how difficult it is to look up?

 

[bbyrd009]

I see what you mean. I made a stab at it above so give me your definition and maybe we can discuss it more.

tryna think of other ways to put it, while i'm here...
beliefs come from knowledge, and faith comes from grace. beliefs can change, faith can only wax and wane. Atheists can have beliefs, but faith is nonsense to a real atheist, i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

I know a guy who says there are five different definitions and he considers himself a Greek scholar.

ha, note the edit to...that post :)
i knew there were at least three, just shorthand there sorry

 

[bbyrd009]

Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- faith, faithfulness
Strong's Hebrew: 3948. לֶ֫קַח (leqach) -- a learning, teaching
Strong's Greek: 3862. παράδοσις (paradosis) -- a handing down or over, a tradition
Strong's Greek: 472. ἀντέχομαι (antechó) -- to hold against, i.e. to hold firmly to
Strong's Hebrew: 539. אָמַן (aman) -- to confirm, support

wherein i guess we can note that the demons have "faith." So that blows some of my earlier yack out of the water. Of course in their perspective, they would call it "faith," even if we make a distinction because their faith will not serve them or something like that; iow we have the perspective of hindsight in a sense, even if the reality has not played out all the way yet.

 

[bbyrd009]

Have you ever thought about if you were surrounded by poisonous snakes how difficult it would be to look up and the correlation to walking in sin and how difficult it is to look up?

well, "look up" might not be mutually defined here, not sure what is meant by "look up" in this analogy?

 

[jimd]

boy, doubt i could improve on yours, and we are talking about a kind of a mystery here i guess. "Demons also believe," is one way that the Book puts it, right. The only thing left at that point imo is to Lex "faith" and "beliefs" to find the root words, as i have already done many times, and read the three definitions for oneself. And this is obscured because many current translations write out "faith" and insert "belief," never the other way around hmm.

i'll put a list below, i'm up to five defs now

ha, note the edit to...that post :)

tryna think of other ways to put it, while i'm here...
beliefs come from knowledge, and faith comes from grace. beliefs can change, faith can only wax and wane. Atheists can have beliefs, but faith is nonsense to a real atheist, i guess.

Thanks for the list. I never could get him to list the five.