Who were the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6?

[Insight]

No actually, the "sons of God" phrase used in The New Testament Books is about the Redemption of our body at Christ's second coming, and that future Resurrection state is like my Lord Jesus Christ said, "as the angels of God in heaven".

That totally disproves your false assumptions that the "sons of God" phrase is about the flesh.

This prove Angels in Gen 6

Gen 6:3 - - God's Spirit would not continue to strive with man in his fleshly sinful state, but no mention of His
Spirit striving with Angels?

Could it be that Angels are Spirit also?

Notice Veteran how the verb diyn means to contend, strive, decide, judge, and so forth.

Diyn:
to judge, contend, plead
a) (Qal)
1) to act as judge, minister judgment
2) to plead a cause
3) to execute judgment, requite, vindicate
4) to govern
5) to contend, strive
(Niphal) to be at strife, quarrel

God is (symbolically) pronouncing His intention of "gathering to Himself His spirit" as in Job 34:14, the life principle of creation. God removed the breath of lives from all living creatures (souls) bar eight souls (lives) and as we all know Angels cannot die and are not mortal – they are eternal, immortal as the Father bearing His image perfectly, they are the Spirit beings who behold the very eyes of the Father and cannot sin, fall, lie, have no lust of flesh because they do not live under the condemnation of sin which leads to death. If they could sin then they would also die, they don’t, therefore the wages of sin is death has not hold over them.

Does Rom 6:23 apply to angels?

Veteran cannot explain this because it’s a paradox for him! On one hand he knows if an Angel sins then the royal law of Rom 6:23 must also apply, else Veteran’s god is unjust! On the other hand he has all this mythology running though his head that he cannot see truth.

Now watch Veteran run away, far away from this question by stringing together a whole number of misquotations only to evade the reality of this conclusion.

Angels cannot sin!...you will need to find another way to event your supernatural beings...

But don’t use Holy Angels...they are His Mighty Ones how always do His commands.

Insight

 

[tim_from_pa]

One question. In the past, have you ever believed in the angelic theory? Or did you always believe as you do?

Never, 17 years ago I decided to study the Word without any preconceived ideas. I chose not to consult church fathers or experts; I desired to understand the "language of God". The Spirit has a diverse and unique way of presenting thoughts and principles and once you understand these basic truths you are better equip to find the one truth.

Well, you see, I have been on your side in believing what you do at one time. Or as Generation X would say, "Been there, done that." And likewise I did a study of the Word and have 6 thick notebooks of notes on it (Probably about 1500 pages) so not to take my study casually, and I left what you believe in favor of the angelic theory. And in addition to the bible, there are no shortage of apocryphal sources that state the same thing, not the least of which is Enoch, the very source that Jude quoted. I find it hard to believe that Jude did not believe what Enoch stated (otherwise why quote him?) and clearly was alluding to that incident mentioned in Enoch's book. Some Christians still canonize Enoch. Being a person who looks at all sides of the issue, I can't just sweep that evidence under the rug as it would appear that my knowledge is then limited and I would appear stupid and close-minded. People don't just dream this stuff up. They all do agree for those with an open mind enough to see it.

So, I've been on both sides. You were only on one side. I find that more often than not, a person leaves certain ideas behind when there's a problem with it, as I have found.

Other things I discovered the bible teaches are as follows (but not an exhaustive list):

* There are lost ten tribes of Israel, and they became many nations today.
* The Davidic Throne exists today as God promised here on earth until Christ comes to claim it.
* The Lord did not die on a Friday
* The church is not about "dying and going to heaven". The church rules and reigns with Christ at the resurrection and the rest of the people will be saved in the millennium
* God does not consign a person screaming forever and ever in a hot hell (amen and amen!). They are burned up. This is eternal fire that destroys a person fully.

etc etc

To sum up, neither of us will convince the other. I think we've both made our cases and believe what we want anyway.

 

[veteran]

This prove Angels in Gen 6

Gen 6:3 - - God's Spirit would not continue to strive with man in his fleshly sinful state, but no mention of His
Spirit striving with Angels?

Could it be that Angels are Spirit also?

Notice Veteran how the verb diyn means to contend, strive, decide, judge, and so forth.

Diyn:
to judge, contend, plead
a) (Qal)
1) to act as judge, minister judgment
2) to plead a cause
3) to execute judgment, requite, vindicate
4) to govern
5) to contend, strive
(Niphal) to be at strife, quarrel

Gen 6:3
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
(KJV)

The Gen.6:3 verse further proves that our makeup is not just a flesh body only. It agrees with Eccl.12 of when the "silver cord" is severed at flesh death, our flesh body goes back to the earthly material elements where it came from, and our spirit, which includes our mind or person, goes back to God Who gave it. That 'spirit' part is not just some animating force that even animals have. The New Testament Scriptures go into MORE detail about this while the Old Testament Books do not, except for Scripture like Eccl.12:5-7. I'd say that's also why you appear to steer way... clear of the 1 Corinthians 15 and 2 Corinthians 5 Scripture where Apostle Paul covered it in more detail. You're dreaming of a fleshy Salvation that Jewish doctrine has taught you to believe.

 

[Insight]

Angels cannot sin, if so Rom 6:23 to apply.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Angels cannot sin, if so Rom 6:23 to apply.

I believe Satan and his band would disagree.

 

[Insight]

Cannot argue with Rom 6:23...I know, lies are difficult to reconcile with the Word.

It’s one truth you see and Jude 6 has not be answered but aptly avoided by many here. Now Rom 6:23 reveals a god who is unjust passing a sentence on mankind but not on the angels.

Your reply is very insightful!

scary but insightful.

 

[Buzzfruit]

I believe Satan and his band would disagree.

He assumes that God cannot remove Satan and his demons from existence. Scripture indicates that God will. And besides, I don't see the purpose for God to have Statan around when all of His plans for humanity have been acumplised.

 

[Insight]

Gal 3:22KJV must also apply to Heaven ?

 

[THE Gypsy]

Are you saying Satan and his

Cannot argue with Rom 6:23...I know, lies are difficult to reconcile with the Word.

It’s one truth you see and Jude 6 has not be answered but aptly avoided by many here. Now Rom 6:23 reveals a god who is unjust passing a sentence on mankind but not on the angels.

Your reply is very insightful!

scary but insightful.

Are you saying Satan was not an Angel? And that the others that followed him were not kicked out of Heaven with him?

 

[Insight]

No what you are saying is that Satan is a fallen angel who sinned. Follow the thought?

An Angel sins in Heaven = Rom 6:23 is applied then Gods throne is full of chaos and all angels ,even God Himself is held under sin Gal 3:22.

The reward of the saints cannot be guaranteed to be free from sin? For sin to occur one must have free will to chose between right and wrong...Angels don’t have free will...they only do God’s Will "Are they (the angels of God) not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?" Heb 1:14 & Psalm 103:20
These passages must be lies!

In other words your belief in fallen angels is ludicrous, impossible irreconcilable doctrine and your hope would be in vain because your reward is tainted with sin.

Ouch!

 

[THE Gypsy]

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isaiah 14:12 - 15

 

[Insight]

You believe this proves Angels can sin?

But this passage is about the king of Babylon (Isa 14:4), a "man" (Isa 14:18).

Go figure?

 

[THE Gypsy]

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev. 12:7-9

You believe this proves Angels can sin?

But this passage is about the king of Babylon (Isa 14:4), a "man" (Isa 14:18).

Go figure?

You believe God is so nasty that He would cast them out for no reason?

 

[Insight]

You believe in dragons also - real ones?

 

[THE Gypsy]

You believe in dragons also - real ones?

Now you're just acting like a toad.

A person that instantly pounces on the beliefs of others, simply because they have yet to comprehend the meaning, will never be a good teacher or witness. And that, my friend is what it's all about.

 

[Insight]

Rev 12 contains highly symbolic language and understanding its symbology requires a mind clear of dogmas. I find it fascinating how devil and satan believes leap all over highly symbolic passages to prove their theory.

What’s your understanding of Rev 12?

Now you're just acting like a toad.

A person that instantly pounces on the beliefs of others, simply because they have yet to comprehend the meaning, will never be a good teacher or witness. And that, my friend is what it's all about.

Gypsy,

Witnessing truth is often about asking the right questions. Your understanding is in derision and while you believe you have interpreted Rev 12 & Isa 14 the reality is you have not grasped its depth.

The dragon comment goes to the heart of the issue. You believe in the mysterious, in demons, devils and all that Greek mythology has to offer is found in your teachings.

And you challenge my witnessing?

Insight

p.s I am willing to discuss Rev 12 but come with an open mind.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Rev 12 contains highly symbolic language and understanding its symbology requires a mind clear of dogmas. I find it fascinating how devil and satan believes leap all over highly symbolic passages to prove their theory.

Who made you the decider of what is, and isn't "symbolic"?

What’s your understanding of Rev 12?

Already answered.

Gypsy,

Witnessing truth is often about asking the right questions. Your understanding is in derision and while you believe you have interpreted Rev 12 & Isa 14 the reality is you have not grasped its depth.

You are incorrect.

The dragon comment goes to the heart of the issue. You believe in the mysterious, in demons, devils and all that Greek mythology has to offer is found in your teachings.

There is NOTHING "mythological" about the Devil and his demons. Of that I am certain.

And you challenge my witnessing?

Insight

I did no such thing, however, if you feel convicted, perhaps you should check into that.

p.s I am willing to discuss Rev 12 but come with an open mind.

Your reaction, so far, says otherwise.

 

[Insight]

Who made you the decider of what is, and isn't "symbolic"?

Gypsy

Well if Satan is a real person what say ye about the dragon.

While you are sifting through your notes you would agree that Rev 12 has been the subject of more controversy than any of the apocalyptic chapters.

It is used by christians like yourself to support the theory of the devil as a fallen angel for centuries. Rather than hijacking this thread why dont we start another?

Insight

 

[THE Gypsy]

Nice try, Sparky...Now...How about answering the question?

 

[Insight]

Let me see.

Well if Satan is a real person what say ye about the dragon?

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

I assume you believe this literal dragon is fighting against Michael the Arch Angel?

And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

War
Heaven
Earth
Angels
Dragon
Devil
Satan
Old serpent

If I am not the one to interpret what is symbolic and not, and clearly you show no desire to raise your hand?

I guess you believe in dragons.

Insight