Whosoever is born of God DOTH NOT COMMIT sin. Really?

[TonyChanYT]

1 John 1:

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

But then only 2 chapters later, King James Bible 1 John 3:

9a Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

commit
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular

Koine-Greek.com:

The imperfective aspect (traditionally, the Present “tense” and the Imperfect “tense”) are used in states of affairs involving customary/habitual action.
Wallace, for example, simply says: “The customary present is used to signal either an action that regularly occurs or an ongoing state. The action is usually iterative, or repeated, but not without interruption. This usage is quite common”

The Greek present tense carries a sense of repetitive or routine action.

My paraphrase: Anyone born of God will not routinely practice sin as a matter of fact.

KJV 1 John 3:

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

English Standard Version:

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Two chapters later, this concept is revisited by John in 1 John 5:

18a We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning,

The main verb is:
does not keep on sinning
ἁμαρτάνει (hamartanei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

The secondary verb is the participle:
born
γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18a:

Having been born of God, he does not routinely sin.

Now onto the next clause:

18b but he who has been born of God keeps himself

The main verb for this clause is:
keeps/protects
τηρεῖ (tērei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5083: From teros; to guard, i.e. To note; by implication, to detain; by extension, to withhold; by extension, to withhold.

The secondary verb is the participle:
was born
γεννηθεὶς (gennētheis)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18b:

Having had been born of God clearly and distinctly, God protects him.

Does "born" have the same meaning on the two occasions it occurs in 1 John 5:18?"

On both occasions, they are the same Greek G1080, sharing the same lexical meaning. They differ in tenses. One is in perfect tense; the other is in the aorist.

 

[Randy Kluth]

1 John 1:


But then only 2 chapters later, King James Bible 1 John 3:


commit
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular

Koine-Greek.com:


The Greek present tense carries a sense of repetitive or routine action.

My paraphrase: Anyone born of God will not routinely practice sin as a matter of fact.

KJV 1 John 3:


English Standard Version:


Two chapters later, this concept is revisited by John in 1 John 5:


The main verb is:
does not keep on sinning
ἁμαρτάνει (hamartanei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

The secondary verb is the participle:
born
γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18a:


Now onto the next clause:


The main verb for this clause is:
keeps/protects
τηρεῖ (tērei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5083: From teros; to guard, i.e. To note; by implication, to detain; by extension, to withhold; by extension, to withhold.

The secondary verb is the participle:
was born
γεννηθεὶς (gennētheis)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18b:


Does "born" have the same meaning on the two occasions it occurs in 1 John 5:18?"

On both occasions, they are the same Greek G1080, sharing the same lexical meaning. They differ in tenses. One is in perfect tense; the other is in the aorist.

The answer to this problem comes by common sense, and not strictly from the lexicon. It is how a person "means" to use a word that gives the word its definition in context. We may say either "I don't Sin" in the sense of the routine practice of Sin or say "I don't Sin" in the sense that I'm sinless and perfect.

For example, Jesus would say, "I don't Sin" in the sense of his being sinless and perfect. But we, as sinful human beings, can never say we're without Sin. We would say, "I don't Sin" only in the sense that we don't practice Sin habitually or by temperament, or even by a predetermined spiritual choice.

It's the same semantical problem with the phrase, "I'm a sinner." What does that mean?

It depends on who's using the phrase and how he means to use it. In context a person may mean that he enjoys living a life of Sin. Another means that he was born in Sin but actually detests his sinful tendencies or inclinations.

I'm a "sinner" in the sense I hate Sin personally but have unfortunately been saddled with a Sin Nature. In that sense I'm a "sinner," but not in the sense I've chosen to live a life of Sin.

 

[ScottA]

1 John 1:


But then only 2 chapters later, King James Bible 1 John 3:


commit
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular

Koine-Greek.com:


The Greek present tense carries a sense of repetitive or routine action.

My paraphrase: Anyone born of God will not routinely practice sin as a matter of fact.

KJV 1 John 3:


English Standard Version:


Two chapters later, this concept is revisited by John in 1 John 5:


The main verb is:
does not keep on sinning
ἁμαρτάνει (hamartanei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

The secondary verb is the participle:
born
γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18a:


Now onto the next clause:


The main verb for this clause is:
keeps/protects
τηρεῖ (tērei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5083: From teros; to guard, i.e. To note; by implication, to detain; by extension, to withhold; by extension, to withhold.

The secondary verb is the participle:
was born
γεννηθεὶς (gennētheis)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18b:


Does "born" have the same meaning on the two occasions it occurs in 1 John 5:18?"

On both occasions, they are the same Greek G1080, sharing the same lexical meaning. They differ in tenses. One is in perfect tense; the other is in the aorist.

John 3:6​

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.​

Meaning that by nature or by "kind" (Genesis 1), it is only that which is born of the Spirit, that does not sin.

 

[Webers_Home]

~
● 1John 3:9 . . No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed
abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

That verse only applies to someone who for real is God's paternal
descendant.

The thing is: born-again Christians are not related to God like that. They are
His descendants via the process of adoption. (Gal 4:5, Eph 1:5)

In point of fact, born-again Christians are described as God's handiwork
rather than His paternal offspring.

2Cor 5:17
Eph 2:10
Eph 4:24
Col 3:9-10

God has only one child qualified to claim himself God's paternal descendant.

John 1:14
John 1:18
John 3:16
John 3:18
1John 4:9

Were born-again Christians to be God's paternal descendants, they would be
divine beings because like gives birth to like, i.e. were God to reproduce, He
would produce Gods, viz: duplicates of Himself like as when humans
reproduce duplicates of themselves.

NOTE: I read in a Watchtower Society publication back in the late 1960s that
Jesus could've failed; he could've sinned. Well according to 1John 3:9, the
Jehovah's Witnesses are very mistaken; and that's likely because their
concept of Jesus' origin is extremely faulty.
_

 

[Pearl]

Even as Christians we may occasionally commit sin but we no longer live as sinners. The thing is though we recognise it as such whereas before we didn't, and as Jesus told Peter we no longer need a bath but we can go to him to get our feet washed. If we are cleansed by the blood of Jesus, His Father, who is then our Father, no longer sees us as sinners but as saints. He accepts us as His adopted children.

Psalm 103:8-14
8 The Lord is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.
9 He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbour his anger forever;
10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;
12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.​

13 As a father has compassion on his children,
so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him;
14 for he knows how we are formed,
he remembers that we are dust.

 

[Lambano]

I think you're overthinking it. The stated purpose of the letter is to exhort his flock to resist sinning. It's right up front:

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. (1 John 2:1a)

In chapter 3 verse 9, he is appealing to their sense of identity as children of God, and children of God don't sin.

Otherwise, it's a flat-out contradiction.

 

[mailmandan]

In regard to 1 John 3:9, Greek scholar AT Robertson explains - Doeth no sin (amartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in verse John 4 like amartanei in verse John 8 . The child of God does not have the habit of sin. His seed (sperma autou). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. John 1 . And he cannot sin (kai ou dunatai amartanein). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were kai ou dunatai amartein or amarthsai (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive amartanein can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of amartanei in verse John 8 and amartanwn in verse John 6 . For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see amarthte and amarth in John 2:1 . A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of amartanein here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 epimenwmen th amartiai (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with amarthswmen in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

1 John 3 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

1 John 3, Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary, verse-by-verse, paints word pictures to describe the New Testament

www.studylight.org

1 John 3:9 (AMP) - No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.

 

[Pearl]

We don't live lives of sin any more. We don't live as sinners anymore. But although we are saved and seen by God as without sin we are not yet perfect. Hopefully the more mature we become in Christ the less sin will be in our lives.

 

[TonyChanYT]

I think you're overthinking it. The stated purpose of the letter is to exhort his flock to resist sinning. It's right up front:

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. (1 John 2:1a)

In chapter 3 verse 9, he is appealing to their sense of identity as children of God, and children of God don't sin.

Otherwise, it's a flat-out contradiction.

Thanks for sharing.

Is it possible for a believer not to sin anymore?

 

[Lambano]

Thanks for sharing.

Is it possible for a believer not to sin anymore?

I have seen people claim sinlessness, but their obvious pride, or the way they treat other people, belies their claim.

I've seen others deny that sins of thought or word count, but only sins of deed. And the sins of omission, the good we could've done for others, the times we've failed to act in love for God and neighbor, those sins are rarely considered.

It was a different thread (similar topic), but that is why I quoted Matthew 19. So this time I'll switch things up and quote the synoptic parallel in Mark:

Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Mark10:21)​

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.” (Mark 10:27)​

 

[Lambano]

Is it possible for a believer not to sin anymore?

"With God, all things are possible"...

One special case: I have heard some say that they have "walked in the Spirit" for an extended (though finite) period of time. I have no way of verifying (or for that matter, contradicting) others' claims, but biblically, this does exist. My understanding of being "in the spirit" is an altered state of consciousness often associated with the gift of prophecy.

There is also the concept walking "by" the Spirit. (I put "by" in quotation marks because rather than a preposition, the Greek uses the dative case, which in English typically corresponds to an indirect object. "Walking to the Spirit"?)

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. (Galatians 5:16)​

​

And to be honest, I don't know how that's supposed to work. If we were doing that, Jesus's people would be a lot better human beings.

 

[Pearl]

If we walk in darkness - which we all do before we turn to Jesus - that is our sinful state. But with Jesus we walk in the light and our eyes have been opened to our own sin so that we can allow Him to root it out of us. But it takes time, some longer than others. And although some say they do not sin I personally do not believe that all sin has been rooted out of them. For by that very assertion they are committing the sin of pride. Do they never get impatient with other road users or in a queue in a store, or say a harsh word to somebody? For all those are sins - not only the stealing and the lust etc.

So I would say to anybody who may feel unworthy because they are not yet sinless, take heart for you are not the only one.

And if you are saved God sees a saint not a sinner when he looks at you.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

1 John 1:


But then only 2 chapters later, King James Bible 1 John 3:


commit
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular

Koine-Greek.com:


The Greek present tense carries a sense of repetitive or routine action.

My paraphrase: Anyone born of God will not routinely practice sin as a matter of fact.

KJV 1 John 3:


English Standard Version:


Two chapters later, this concept is revisited by John in 1 John 5:


The main verb is:
does not keep on sinning
ἁμαρτάνει (hamartanei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

The secondary verb is the participle:
born
γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos)
Verb - Perfect Participle Middle or Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18a:


Now onto the next clause:


The main verb for this clause is:
keeps/protects
τηρεῖ (tērei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5083: From teros; to guard, i.e. To note; by implication, to detain; by extension, to withhold; by extension, to withhold.

The secondary verb is the participle:
was born
γεννηθεὶς (gennētheis)
Verb - Aorist Participle Passive - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 1080: From a variation of genos; to procreate; figuratively, to regenerate.

My paraphrase of 18b:


Does "born" have the same meaning on the two occasions it occurs in 1 John 5:18?"

On both occasions, they are the same Greek G1080, sharing the same lexical meaning. They differ in tenses. One is in perfect tense; the other is in the aorist.

Yes,really.

The context is important.

Teaching,preaching, to those who may think they are without sin and therefore may believe they need not repent is delivering the good news.

Affirming those who are in Christ do not sin, is the state of grace after accepting that good news and the grace gift of our eternal salvation.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Yes,really.

The context is important.

Teaching,preaching, to those who may think they are without sin and therefore may believe they need not repent is delivering the good news.

Affirming those who are in Christ do not sin, is the state of grace after accepting that good news and the grace gift of our eternal salvation.

Do you sin?

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Do you sin?

Yours is an old over used tactic employed far too often by skeptics in their failed effort to quash the Gospel.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Yours is an old over used tactic employed far too often by skeptics in their failed effort to quash the Gospel.

This is the 2nd time I am asking this simple question. Please do not add or subtract to it: DO YOU SIN?

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

This is the 2nd time I am asking this simple question. Please do not add or subtract to it: DO YOU SIN?

No.

No one born of Christ does.

 

[TonyChanYT]

No.

No one born of Christ does.

So you have been sinless since you were born of Christ? And you will be sinless until you die?

 

[Pearl]

Yes,really.

The context is important.

Teaching,preaching, to those who may think they are without sin and therefore may believe they need not repent is delivering the good news.

Affirming those who are in Christ do not sin, is the state of grace after accepting that good news and the grace gift of our eternal salvation.

Have you, yourself reached that state of sinlessness? I haven't and I've been a Christian for over 47 years. I do know though that God sees me as sinless.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Have you, yourself reached that state of sinlessness? I haven't and I've been a Christian for over 47 years. I do know though that God sees me as sinless.

And there you have it. Though we know God says we do not sin ,those who are in Christ .
When God sees us as sinless,how do we insist we are still sinners? After all he did for us?