why an alar?

[bbyrd009]

The Spirit purchased that birthright to dominion and fruit bearing seed through crucified flesh(the Lamb).

you think Jacob putting on sheep's skin to fool his father reflects that?
you don't think maybe that grabbing someone's heel might bruise it?

 

[bbyrd009]

Now the Spirit rules over flesh and has dominion

well, some spirit does, yes. Which one will be apparent by how "not of the world" we are, i guess

 

[VictoryinJesus]

emissaries with gifts to Jacob,

I'm not sure what that is?

 

[bbyrd009]

Question is what is: "Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage ; for I am faint:" that Jacob ate of?

Jacob ate this? Where? Jacob "made," he did not "eat" i'm pretty sure. At least that would upset my understanding of the symbology completely. Wouldn't be the first time tho

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm not sure what that is?

sry, at the culmination of the story, later, when Jacob is..."returning" to Esau, after he had robbed Laban blind
Genesis 32 Parallel Chapters

i mean Jacob is even calling Edom "lord"

 

[Armadillo]

the savoir was crucified on the cross, why have an altar? hello

Some forms of Christianity don't have an altar, it's "out of date" and some forms of Christianity have no need of a crucified Savior but all must come to God the same way, Romans 11:2, and not through something like King Ahaz created, 2 Kings 16.

 

[DPMartin]

I believe It Became Like a Miner's Claim Marker, The Alter touches the Earth, and the Earth is God's, IMO

well I can see what you are talking about, for example Abraham would build an altar wherever the Lord appeared or spoke to him and those places became significant in Israeli history like Hebron and Bethel, also another town which became the capital if Israel when it parted from Judah. there is also a statement by the Lord God in reference to wherever He leaves or places His Name can't remember where He said it though. building pillars was also used as a marker. Joshua placed a pillar of twelve stones in the middle of the Jorden when they crossed (wonder if its still there) I think Jacob did also don't remember where. so it is very possible that the correct altar in the correct place is where, so on and so forth with the Lord God of Israel. if you remember when Joseph's descendants where given land on the other side of the Jorden before crossing it, there was concern some time later about where their sacrifices where to be offered, and the tribes that crossed were ready to go to war over it, because the law stipulated that offerings were to be where ever the tabernacle was, unless under extreme cases, if my memory serves.

 

[bbyrd009]

not through something like King Ahaz created, 2 Kings 16.

ya, and sending your best to guard poppy fields in Afghanistan and calling it "service" has nothing to do with passing your children through any fire, almost surely prolly

 

[VictoryinJesus]

i know this is what tassel-toes teaches us, but Esau walked in there just fine, right. We don't read that he crawled in and collapsed or anything. Esau is representing, just like Jacob. And Spirit (supposedly, according to your understanding) had not purchased the birthright yet anyway right. "I'm about to die" is Esau's perspective, not truth iow

Isaiah 40:28-29
[28] Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord , the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. [29] He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

Matthew 15:32
[32] Then Jesus called his disciples unto him , and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.

Isn't that the ministry (the gospel) to feed those faint in the field? Feed them what? Esau sells His birthright to Jacob. Isn't this counting the cost? Stay faint, where we all began and are born into. Or Eat of Him, to be born of the Spirit of God who faints not and give up that old way of Esau? To inherit to new. The old man. The Old wine. The Old skin. OR sell that birthright for Spirit that faints not to rule?

2 Corinthians 4:1
[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

2 Corinthians 4:16
[16] For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

 

[bbyrd009]

well I can see what you are talking about, for example Abraham would build an altar wherever the Lord appeared or spoke to him and those places became significant in Israeli history like Hebron and Bethel, also another town which became the capital if Israel when it parted from Judah. there is also a statement by the Lord God in reference to wherever He leaves or places His Name can't remember where He said it though. building pillars was also used as a marker. Joshua placed a pillar of twelve stones in the middle of the Jorden when they crossed (wonder if its still there) I think Jacob did also don't remember where. so it is very possible that the correct altar in the correct place is where, so on and so forth with the Lord God of Israel. if you remember when Joseph's descendants where given land on the other side of the Jorden before crossing it, there was concern some time later about where their sacrifices where to be offered, and the tribes that crossed were ready to go to war over it, because the law stipulated that offerings were to be where ever the tabernacle was, unless under extreme cases, if my memory serves.

ah, good point. Back then they had a literal tabernacle; ours is in a different...plane though right

 

[bbyrd009]

Feed them what?

well, not red stuff, spiritual food right

[29] He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

apparently Edom was not too interested, wanted "red stuff" instead

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jacob ate this? Where? Jacob "made," he did not "eat" i'm pretty sure. At least that would upset my understanding of the symbology completely. Wouldn't be the first time tho

No I meant Esau wanted to eat of what Jacob ate of. Jacob prepared it. Obviously he prepared it to eat until Esau was faint.

Signing off now. I didn't mean to disrupt DPMartin's thread. Won't discuss it any further here.

 

[lforrest]

There is some symbolic significance of the uncut stones used for the altars. They represent people.

So, the blood of the sacrifice would have covered the stones. And the fire of burnt offerings would be upon the stones.

 

[bbyrd009]

No I meant Esau wanted to eat of what Jacob ate of. Jacob prepared it. Obviously he prepared it to eat until Esau was faint.

Signing off now. I didn't mean to disrupt DPMartin's thread. Won't discuss it any further here.

i would say obviously since him eating it himself is (glaringly) absent, it might be better to suppose that Jacob prepped it for Esau?
haven't read it in a while though, i'd have to see

 

[charity]

there are a lot of places for slaughter. even the ground itself

The ground is cursed though isn't it (Gen.3:17). It was following that first mention of an altar that God said, that He would not curse the ground again (Gen.8:21). It may have no relevance, but I thought I would mention it.

'And the LORD smelled a sweet savour;
and the LORD said in His heart,
I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake;
for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth;
neither will I again smite any more every thing living,
as I have done.'
(Gen 8:21)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Helen]

Except for Elijah when it was a supernatural sacrifice , doused with twelve buckets of water...
I would say..a burnt offering would not burn, not into ashes if there was no fire pit underneath.

And yes, the Cross was indeed God's choice of altar for The Last Lamb to be sacrificed.

 

[bbyrd009]

No I meant Esau wanted to eat of what Jacob ate of. Jacob prepared it. Obviously he prepared it to eat until Esau was faint.

Signing off now. I didn't mean to disrupt DPMartin's thread. Won't discuss it any further here.

and btw we're getting to that altar, that is what this convo is about. Divided ppl who cannot "face" themselves need external altars, and make sacrifices to cover their sins, rather than confessing them unto salvation

Isaac loved Esau, bc he liked venison. But Rebekah loved Jacob
suggests to me that Jacob did not even like that kind of food; yet the very next v is about Jacob making stew?

but then Jacob--who built the altar--seemed to have no probs with "other gods," right--
So Jacob said to his family and all who were with him, "Get rid of the foreign gods that are among you.
which was only predicated bc
1And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother.

 

[bbyrd009]

we're talking about the making of a nation here, right, Jacob becomes Israel.
The Israel that got divorced by God later, "All who are descended from Israel" iow
6b For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel

 

[Deborah_]

where's your reference to that?

There's no "reference" - it's logical deduction.
First principle: Technology has never been revealed from heaven; from the wheel to the computer, we've had to invent it. At some time in the distant past, somebody must have had the idea of constructing something to make it easier to burn a sacrifice. Which is what we now call an altar.
Second principle: There's nothing inherently bad about technology. Unless there's a good reason not to, God uses what we invent, and thus consecrates it (e.g. the skills and techniques needed to build the Tabernacle).

 

[Helen]

when Jacob is..."returning" to Esau, after he had robbed Laban blind

You think so?
I read Laban tricking Jacob. He agreed to allowing Jacob to marry one daughter, then the last moment switched for the other daughter!!!
So Jacob had to work for him 7 more years..to get his first love...so I don't see Laban being " robbed bind" He was a crook..
And what you sow you also reap...Jacob pulled one on him.

BTW do you have anything on :- “And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.”

To me..the story of 'how' Jacob got his wealth is the strangest in the book.
God must have given him this idea, he was going to be the leader of the new nation of Israel..God wanted him to prosper I am sure.