why an alar?

[DPMartin]

Thank you for that roundabout dodging of my question.
As for Christ's Sacrifice - it's ETERNAL (Rev. 13:8).

As for why an altar for offering sacrifice - ask God.
NOT everything is spelled out explicitly in Scripture . . .

then why are you posting on this thread if you have nothing to contribute to the subject of the thread?

 

[Deborah_]

technically to know is to receive revelation. without revelation one doesn't know.

This doesn't follow. You can know lots of things without revelation.

you are wrong about Bezaleel


Exo 31:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah: 3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, 4 To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, 5 And in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship.

so you don't know what your are talking about there

You are making an assumption aren't you? (We are probably all making assumptions, but since we have differing understandings of the verse, that itself indicates that the interpretation isn't a foregone conclusion). To me it obviously means that Bezalel was given particular gifts of skill and design in all these crafts - not that God taught him how to cast metal, cut gemstones and to carve wood. How can you be so sure that he didn't learn any of these techniques in Egypt?

 

[Deborah_]

Here's a question about Altars:
Since Protestants don't believe that there is any need for an altar anymore - why do you guys have "Altar Calls"?

Because people aren't always logical!

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have been horribly misinformed regarding Sola Scriptura. Observe:

6. The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture; unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word, and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed. 1689 London Baptist Confession - The Holy Scripture

So much for your strawman complaint. The notion that "everything is spelled out in Scripture" has never been a part of Sola Scriptura. It does however guard The Faith against Rome's abuse, i.e. creating doctrine out of whole cloth that contradicts or attempts to supersede God-breathed Scripture.

I never said that Sola Scriptura meant that everything had to "spelled out" explicitly - although there ARE protestants who believe this. NOT every Protestant adheres to the Baptist Confession. The perpetual splintering that is Protestantism allows for a wide range of aberrant beliefs - and, in fact encourages it.

Regardless of whether a Protestant believes that everything must be explicitly mentioned in Scripture - you ALL posit that Sola Scriptura states that that Scripture is our SOLE authority.

Not only does Scripture NEVER mention this - it disagrees with this false man made invention . . .

 

[DPMartin]

This doesn't follow. You can know lots of things without revelation.


You are making an assumption aren't you? (We are probably all making assumptions, but since we have differing understandings of the verse, that itself indicates that the interpretation isn't a foregone conclusion). To me it obviously means that Bezalel was given particular gifts of skill and design in all these crafts - not that God taught him how to cast metal, cut gemstones and to carve wood. How can you be so sure that he didn't learn any of these techniques in Egypt?

you don't have to assume when the scriptures states plainly "And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, 4 To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, 5 And in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship."



also you can't know what isn't revealed to you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If you look into what John the Baptist was doing, and realized that what He was doing you might come to a conclusion that what we call baptize was nothing new to the Hebrew's in His day, for they sent out priest's to ask John why he was baptizing and who he was! The Hebrew people would Mikva> or Baptize before interring the Temple, there were many pool's for this cleansing, not only on the Temple Mount, but all around Jerusalem. Baptiste and or Mikva was an act of immersion in water to wash away sin when confessed and a cleansing from defilement before interring the Temple. There are many examples in the Scripture's in the Law about washing before interring the Camp and or Temple! and Yes I will!!!!!!

The "bathing" of Baptism has NOTHING to do with outward cleanliness the way Jewish baptisms did.

2 Pet. 3:21
"... and this water symbolizes BAPTISM that now SAVES YOU also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Recognize the difference . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Because people aren't always logical!

That is a good answer. Thank you.

 

[Truth]

The "bathing" of Baptism has NOTHING to do with outward cleanliness the way Jewish baptisms did.

2 Pet. 3:21
"... and this water symbolizes BAPTISM that now SAVES YOU also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Recognize the difference . . .

If you touched a dead body, you were required to clean your cloth's and wash before interring the Temple, as to not defile the Temple. In essence when you are baptized in the Name of our Lord, unto his death, you become clean as to be able to approach our Savior and God without reproach, you become un-defiled !

 

[Nomad]

I never said that Sola Scriptura meant that everything had to "spelled out" explicitly...

That's exactly what you said:

"Kind of like the way Scripture doesn't give us instructions on how to Baptize.
He left that up to His Church to give the instructions.

Not everything is spelled out in Scripture." why an alar?

NOT every Protestant adheres to the Baptist Confession.

The 1689 LBC, Westminster Confession, Savoy Declaration, etc., are representative of the confessional Reformation definition of Sola Scriptura. You really should educate yourself on matters such as this.

you ALL posit that Sola Scriptura states that that Scripture is our SOLE authority.

Wrong again. The confessional Reformation view is that Scripture is the sole infallible authority and therefore, the final court of appeal. Sola Scriptura does not teach that Scripture is our only authority. Creeds, confessions, tradition and councils for example, can be useful but they never trump Scripture, the sole infallible authority and final court of appeal. If you wish to continue arguing against a bastardized version of this Reformation principal, you will be doing nothing but beating up a strawman of your own making. Good luck with that.

 

[Deborah_]

also you can't know what isn't revealed to you.

This applies only to knowledge of God (I Corinthians 2:6-16).

 

[DPMartin]

This applies only to knowledge of God (I Corinthians 2:6-16).

nope you are dead wrong there.

you don,t know what a butterfly looks like until it's revealed to you. you don't know what it's like to fly in a plane until you experience it hence revealed to you, you don't know what somebody thinks until its revealed to you. to know is to experience the revelation thereof accordingly. you don't know how to fix the brakes on a car until its revealed to you whether you see it done and or do it yourself. even if you seek to do it your self without seeing or being instructed which are also revelations how many mistakes will be experienced before the experience of doing it correctly is experienced of which are all revelations to the ones that didn't know.

 

[Deborah_]

nope you are dead wrong there.

you don,t know what a butterfly looks like until it's revealed to you. you don't know what it's like to fly in a plane until you experience it hence revealed to you, you don't know what somebody thinks until its revealed to you. to know is to experience the revelation thereof accordingly. you don't know how to fix the brakes on a car until its revealed to you whether you see it done and or do it yourself. even if you seek to do it your self without seeing or being instructed which are also revelations how many mistakes will be experienced before the experience of doing it correctly is experienced of which are all revelations to the ones that didn't know.

Ah, I misunderstood you. When you talked about 'revelation' I thought you meant specifically revelation from God, not including straightforward learning.

 

[DPMartin]

Ah, I misunderstood you. When you talked about 'revelation' I thought you meant specifically revelation from God, not including straightforward learning.

its the same either way, nothing different under the sun. you can't know unless you experience it accordingly, this is no different with the Almighty. if you notice the scriptures are actually a documentation of a people's experience with the Lord their God, therefore their knowledge of. and this same documentation affirms to whom ever that they are experiencing the same God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's exactly what you said:

And again - YOUR view of Sola Scriptura doesn't match ALL Protestant versions.
Many Protestant sects believe that a teaching must be explicitly described or it is not true.

There are literally tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering Protestant sects out there teaching different doctrines.
Not every Protestant is a Baptist . . .

The 1689 LBC, Westminster Confession, Savoy Declaration, etc., are representative of the confessional Reformation definition of Sola Scriptura. You really should educate yourself on matters such as this.

There are MANY beliefs of the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century that DON'T apply to Protestants any more. The Perpetual Virginity of Mary was believed by some of your Protestant Fathers, as was the Real Presence in the Eucharist, Mary - Mother of God, etc.

Also - NONE of them taught the man made fairy tale of the Pre-Tribulation "Rapture" that so many Protestants believe today.

Wrong again. The confessional Reformation view is that Scripture is the sole infallible authority and therefore, the final court of appeal. Sola Scriptura does not teach that Scripture is our only authority. Creeds, confessions, tradition and councils for example, can be useful but they never trump Scripture, the sole infallible authority and final court of appeal. If you wish to continue arguing against a bastardized version of this Reformation principal, you will be doing nothing but beating up a strawman of your own making. Good luck with that.

My mistake for not stating "Infallible" Authority. But again - I have debated SCORES of Protestants who believe that it is our SOLE Authority, period.

As for your comment in RED - the Catholic Church has never taught that ANY of its teachings "trumps" Scripture - as nothing can.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If you touched a dead body, you were required to clean your cloth's and wash before interring the Temple, as to not defile the Temple. In essence when you are baptized in the Name of our Lord, unto his death, you become clean as to be able to approach our Savior and God without reproach, you become un-defiled !

Jewish ritual bathing was about outward cleanliness. This is why Peter makes the point that Baptism is not about removing dirt from the BODY - but about the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

 

[Stranger]

why the alar?


there's no altar mentioned in Abel's offering that God had respect for. there's no mention of an altar until after the flood with Noah. of which there's no instruction mentioned in scripture that God tells any one to build and altar until Jacob is told to revisit Bethel.

Gen 35:1 And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother.

so why an altar at all?

The altar is the place where man meets God. It doesn't have to be a specific structure. A structure just identifies the place. Thus Abel's place of his offering was an altar though not named at this time.

The Christians altar, the place where we meet God, is Jesus Christ. (Heb. 13:10) "We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle." (Heb. 13:13) "Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach."

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Altars and sacrifice in the Bible discuss human cognitive psychology

 

[DPMartin]

Jewish ritual bathing was about outward cleanliness. This is why Peter makes the point that Baptism is not about removing dirt from the BODY - but about the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

where does Peter say that?

 

[DPMartin]

The altar is the place where man meets God. It doesn't have to be a specific structure. A structure just identifies the place. Thus Abel's place of his offering was an altar though not named at this time.

The Christians altar, the place where we meet God, is Jesus Christ. (Heb. 13:10) "We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle." (Heb. 13:13) "Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach."

Stranger

there's no altar mentioned in Abel's act of offering. you have some secret info we aren't aware of? or is it because you thought it should be there, then it was there?

an altar wasn't mentioned in scripture until Noah made offerings after the flood.


Chris B Bacon

 

[BreadOfLife]

where does Peter say that?

1 Pet. 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now SAVES you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,