Why are Christians leaving their churches?

[Dan Clarkston]

??? You're doing here what you've been doing with God's word. You have no good ground to assert this at all. You have only a very tiny piece of what I know and understand of God and His word and yet, though you are entirely ignorant of the vast undisclosed mountain of what I do know and understand, you feel confident making the above assertion. Wow.

OK so you still don't know and understand what being a joint heir with Christ Jesus means.

Duly noted again.

You aren't one of them, I hope.

I'm a joint heir with Christ Jesus so why would I allow the devil to be in my life?

Just like Jesus did, I take the Sword of the Spirit and beat the devil silly with it until he leaves.

 

[mailmandan]

Still no answer from Dan Clarkston.

Why don't explain to us what YOU believe faith IS and also explain to us what YOU believe the gospel IS and also what it means to BELIEVE the gospel?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Still no answer from Dan Clarkston.

I've posted plenty of scripture showing OSAS is false doctrine but the blind OSAS peoples cannot hear it... you know, due to their blindness and their deception that the devil tricked them in to not accepting all of what the Lord says

Feel free to continue walking in the false doctrines of OSAS and see what happens when the future gets here

 

[mailmandan]

I've posted plenty of scripture showing OSAS is false doctrine but the blind OSAS peoples cannot hear it... you know, due to their blindness and their deception that the devil tricked them in to not accepting all of what the Lord says

Feel free to continue walking in the false doctrines of OSAS and see what happens when the future gets here View attachment 63553

View attachment 63552

My question was not about OSAS. My question was about faith and the gospel. You still have no answers?

 

[Kokyu]

OK so you still don't know and understand what being a joint heir with Christ Jesus means.

Duly noted again.

Is this your roundabout way of asking me what I understand of being a joint-heir with Christ? Why not just ask me straight out what my view is instead of playing this rhetorical game with me?

I'm a joint heir with Christ Jesus so why would I allow the devil to be in my life?

Just like Jesus did, I take the Sword of the Spirit and beat the devil silly with it until he leaves.

It was a widespread problem in the Early Church that the spiritual identity of believers was not well understood and lived in. And so, we have the apostle Paul's letters to the Early Church, explaining that identity to them. There is one letter in particular (his letter to the believers at Rome), though, in which Paul directly addresses the sin issue, very clearly explaining God's "way of escape" from all sin. Have you read Romans 6 and Romans 8:1-17? Have you read Galatians 2:20; 3:3; 5:16, 25; 6:14? Have you read Colossians 2:9-14? Do you live in the truths of these passages/verses? If you really want to be a "joint-heir with Christ," you'll have to.

The "sword of the Spirit" (Eph. 6:17) is only one element of the "way of escape" God has provided for His children. Do you know of the others and live in them every day? Your posts in this thread strongly suggest not.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It was a widespread problem in the Early Church that the spiritual identity of believers was not well understood and lived in

Hilarious!

As though they didn't have the Holy Ghost or something

 

[Triumph1300]

Hilarious!

As though they didn't have the Holy Ghost or something.

King James Bible
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."

 

[Dan Clarkston]

King James Bible
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."

Uh huh, and then they got the Holy Ghost!

 

[Triumph1300]

Uh huh, and then they got the Holy Ghost!
View attachment 63652

Shows you, not all believers had received the Holy Ghost.

 

[Kokyu]

Hilarious!

As though they didn't have the Holy Ghost or something

Being indwelt by the Holy Spirit by no means guarantees spiritual wisdom and holiness. See 1 Corinthians 3:1, Galatians 3:3, Revelation 2-3, 1 John 1:8, etc.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Being indwelt by the Holy Spirit by no means guarantees spiritual wisdom and holiness. See 1 Corinthians 3:1, Galatians 3:3, Revelation 2-3, 1 John 1:8, etc.

But NOT being led by the Holy Ghost does guarantee those peeps are not of God.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[Triumph1300]

But NOT being led by the Holy Ghost does guarantee those peeps are not of God.

And you are?

 

[Kokyu]

But NOT being led by the Holy Ghost does guarantee those peeps are not of God.

Well, it indicates that while they may live in the Spirit (i.e. they're saved), they have not yet begun to walk in (live in constant submission to, and joyful, holy fellowship with) the Spirit. (Ga. 5:25).

Though Paul called the Corinthian believers "spiritual babes" and "carnal" and divisive, he also said they were "in Christ," "brethren," God's "field and buildings" and His "temples". Just read through 1 Corinthians 3. Do you think these carnal brethren were being led by the Spirit in their carnality and divisiveness and gross sexual sin (See chapters 5 and 6)?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Well, it indicates that while they may live in the Spirit (i.e. they're saved), they have not yet begun to walk in (live in constant submission to, and joyful, holy fellowship with) the Spirit. (Ga. 5:25).

Though Paul called the Corinthian believers "spiritual babes" and "carnal" and divisive, he also said they were "in Christ," "brethren," God's "field and buildings" and His "temples". Just read through 1 Corinthians 3. Do you think these carnal brethren were being led by the Spirit in their carnality and divisiveness and gross sexual sin (See chapters 5 and 6)?

I don't think Romans 8:14 is a lie...

The warnings the Lord gives about those walking after the flesh not being in right standing should be ignored.

 

[mailmandan]

Romans 8:8 - So, then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

 

[Kokyu]

I don't think Romans 8:14 is a lie...

I'm not sure how this responds to what I pointed out and asked...

Paul wrote Romans 8:14 to Christians. Why would he do that if, simply by virtue of being born-again, they were already being led of the Spirit? And he doesn't say in Romans 8:14 that those not led of the Spirit are not of God. If a soldier in an army is sick and in the infirmary and therefore not led by the general in combat on the battlefield, is he not, then, a member of the army? What if he's on the battlefield but badly wounded and can't follow the leading of his general? Is he therefore no longer a soldier in the army? I'm sure you'd say he was in both cases still a soldier in the army. Well, in the same way, one can be in the Lord's Army and for various reasons not be following the direction of the "general," the Holy Spirit.

As I already pointed out, the believers at Corinth were doing all sorts of sinful things, things the Spirit would never have led them to do, but Paul still called them brethren, temples of God, and in Christ. They seem to me to be the very sort of Christian "soldier" I just described.

 

[shepherdsword]

According to you this only applies to those in the ministry so no need View attachment 63456

You should at least learn to be consistent when teaching falsely

Actually I was just queuing off your own errant interpretation of fruit inspection.

It's hilariously wrong to take things out of context as you just did to claim it does not apply to all men...

The context is clearly false prophets and not struggling young christians

Matthew 7:13-27
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so EVERY good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
EVERY tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not EVERY one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And EVERY one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

So as the Lord was saying.... producing bad fruit is not only how we know false teachers, it's also how we know false brethren

You need to learn context. "Every" is used as a synecdoche (google it) and is limited to the context of false prophets

How you are able to grow in the Lord and quit being a struggling young believer who is too immature to produce fruit View attachment 63457

Go and learn what this means.

Mt 9:11-13 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.