Why are there so many versions of the Bible?

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bbyrd009

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look, if this is a Catholic site, posing as a Christian site, can someone please just tell me? I have no desire to offend anyone, or anyone's belief in an earthly priest, or any other non-Scriptural, satanic yack that anyone might be believing here, and desperately attempting to reconcile with Scripture, ok?

I have witnessed the transformation from Catholic to Christian that mjr could surely describe better than i could, and i'll tell you honestly that i am too old now to be dragging reluctant cultists into the Bible, i would prefer to be somewhere else, ty.
 

bbyrd009

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mjrhealth said:
no glad you are around so few see, getting used to your ramblings but the truth is in tehre.
lol. well, i can already see breadofdeath is up there writing me out of my inheritance, and suggesting that i do not somehow have the correct Rock, because i refuse to buy the flesh-king Peter rock yack, like he did, so by elimination he must be correct, and we must be wrong, and you could bark up this tree for the rest of your life, i'm not doing it. Have a nice day.
 

bbyrd009

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Finally - as to Catholics being the first Christians - we are the ONLY Church that can trace ourselves back to Jesus and the apostles in an UNBROKEN line of succession.
YOUR sect cannot make that claim nor can ANY other sect. We see the name "The Catholic Church" being used as a TITLE as early as AD 107 in the Letter to the Smyrnaeans by Ignatius of Antioch.

Linguistics, history and context are NOT your frien
Paul plainly described these, as the wolves who would come in when he left, do try and get a small clue, sorry. I'll leave you to blather some more spoon -fed last word, i am out of here, best of luck to you.
 

BreadOfLife

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bbyrd009 said:
ok, why aren't you listening to me, then? See how that can be made into self-serving yack, there?

And let's not forget that Christ called Peter "Satan" too, ok, which i understand does not fit with your program too well, oh well. But i don't expect you to reply to that, either, i guess that will just send you off on some other pointless, unScriptural rant.

And i never said "Christianity VS. Catholic," that came from you. And i got that "the headquarters of the Church is in Rome" from you, right here

"Peter and Paul established the Church's earthly headquarters in Rome."

and asked you to back it up, which of course you cannot, because the Church has no "earthly headquarters," except in the minds of those who seek power and authority, like Peter did when Christ told him to get behind him, like you will be doing when you run out of arguments against Scripture and common sense. Some guy built an ice cream castle and put a crown on Peter, made up of a single verse with no witness, and you bought it, just like many other people who want to sit on a fence and direct traffic, and can't face Scripture head on, but need to feel superior to everyone else, so sorry about your luck, join the crowd on that wide, wide path.

Now i am not inclined to exegete Scripture to blind people, but since you asked, and intimated that i am claiming some Scripture is a lie, even though you cannot reply to my Scripture,

15“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.18And I tell you that you are Peter,b and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hadesc will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will bed bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will bee loosed in heaven.” 20Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

it becomes obvious that if you take the blinders off, and stop letting some guy covered in vainglory read/feed you little bits of the Bible from their warped, self-serving perspective that Christ the Messiah is the Rock, and 18a is installed as sucker-bait double talk because Peter means rock, and Christ was pointing at the Revelation, not Peter, who is after all called Satan" and even "evil" in more than one place by Christ, and also violates "the flesh profits nothing," and a bunch of other Scripture that i doubt you are familiar with, if It is even still in your human-altered version of the Bible, ok.

Furthermore, binding and loosing is given to anyone who follows Christ, which means you or me or anyone, and has nothing to do with Peter specifically, ok.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_and_loosing

See that there is no "vs" because there is no competition, and you just need to choose, Catholic or Christian, what's it gonna be, and keep reading from your imaginary bible, if you want to stay Catholic, and if you ever want to crack a real One, recog that you are going to become an "ex-Catholic," just like streams, rivers; oceans of your predecessors have done. Personally i got no problems with Catholics, as long as they don't start pretending they know what Scripture says, and telling me Paul was suicidal and stuff.

I mean did you, at any time, give the people who taught you this stuff any money?

Lol. It is harsh, i know, but it is a completely fair question. Do yourself a favor and stop pretending you know stuff, when the Bible will assure you that you don't, and stop asking ignorant combative questions from "Why?" and face the music, if you want to get real. Deal with some of that Scripture that you glossed over, because your priest isn't answering your email on it or whatever. No offense meant.
There are so many gaping holes in your ridiculous post that it is difficult to know just where to begin.
Let's start with your claims about Matt. 16:18-19.

I find it interesting that YOUR interpretation differs from your fellow Protestant mjrhealth, who claims that the "Rock" is God's "revelation" to Simon. You say that it is Jesus - but later, you go on to say that it is Christ's revelation.
So . . . . ummmm, which is it?? Why do Protestants disagree on so much - yet it is the Catholic Church that is wrong??

As for the Church having an earthly headquarters or having been given Supreme earthly Authority - you haven't addressed even ONE of the verses I presented.
Are you unaware of the fact that when Jesus spoke to the crowds, He was speaking to ALL of us in general. And when He instructed His Apostles, He was speaking to the leaders of His Church?? YOU don't have the power to bind and loose. That power was ONLY granted to the Apostles and their successors.

As for your bizarre claims that Catholics believe that Paul was suicidal - I have NO idea where you're getting that nonsense.
 

BreadOfLife

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bbyrd009 said:
look, if this is a Catholic site, posing as a Christian site, can someone please just tell me? I have no desire to offend anyone, or anyone's belief in an earthly priest, or any other non-Scriptural, satanic yack that anyone might be believing here, and desperately attempting to reconcile with Scripture, ok?

I have witnessed the transformation from Catholic to Christian that mjr could surely describe better than i could, and i'll tell you honestly that i am too old now to be dragging reluctant cultists into the Bible, i would prefer to be somewhere else, ty.
Spoken like a person who is disobedient of Christ's commands about loving his neighbor and sharing the Gospel. If I'm wrong, it is your DUTY to share the truth with me (1 Pet. 3:15).
YOUR problem is that you make these moronic comments about the Catholic Church, having absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
 

BreadOfLife

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bbyrd009 said:
lol. well, i can already see breadofdeath is up there writing me out of my inheritance, and suggesting that i do not somehow have the correct Rock, because i refuse to buy the flesh-king Peter rock yack, like he did, so by elimination he must be correct, and we must be wrong, and you could bark up this tree for the rest of your life, i'm not doing it. Have a nice day.
TRANSLATION:
"I'd better leave now because I have absolutely NO idea how to answer his posts."
 

BreadOfLife

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bbyrd009 said:
lol. well, i can already see breadofdeath is up there writing me out of my inheritance, and suggesting that i do not somehow have the correct Rock, because i refuse to buy the flesh-king Peter rock yack, like he did, so by elimination he must be correct, and we must be wrong, and you could bark up this tree for the rest of your life, i'm not doing it. Have a nice day.
Ummmm - I noticed that you were completely unable to answer my challenge from Post #95 by "proving" those verses wrong . . .
 

bbyrd009

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BreadOfLife said:
TRANSLATION:
"I'd better leave now because I have absolutely NO idea how to answer his posts."
well, i have already answered your posts, but my answers are not going to fit with your spoon-fed notions that you got from wolves, wadr. I think Catholics are great, but debating doctrine is only going to engender strife and division, when you pretend that Catholic doctrine is Christian, somehow, or that your death wish is Scriptural. If you want to be a Christian, go get deprogrammed, and we'll talk then ok.
 

BreadOfLife

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bbyrd009 said:
well, i have already answered your posts, but my answers are not going to fit with your spoon-fed notions that you got from wolves, wadr. I think Catholics are great, but debating doctrine is only going to engender strife and division, when you pretend that Catholic doctrine is Christian, somehow, or that your death wish is Scriptural. If you want to be a Christian, go get deprogrammed, and we'll talk then ok.
Like I told another one of your fellow anti Catholics - you speak like a person who is disobedient of Christ's commands about loving his neighbor and sharing the Gospel. If I'm wrong, it is your DUTY to share the truth with me (1 Pet. 3:15).

The problem is not what I believe. It's that you don't have the answers for my questions - nor do you have a defense for the things YOU believe in which are patently unbiblical.
This makes it difficult for you to have a fruitful discussion . . .



PS - No, you didn't answer or address any of what I posted.
Snarky anti-Catholic remarks are not answers. They're just evidence of your abject ignorance.
 

Wormwood

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Lets get back to the OP. The focus of this discussion topic is not Catholic vs. Protestant views on authority and ecclesiology.

So, going back to the issue of the Scriptures and how they relate to "the Word..."

First, most Christians agree that our "versions" are based on what we understand to be the inspired autographs (original writings). My view is that the original authors of the books of the Bible were "inspired" or guided by the Spirit of God so that the things they wrote were precisely what God desired to be written. Thus, we believe that those original writings did not come from man's imagination or recollection, but from the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit of God. Now, with that being said, let us define a few terms...

Inspiration - Inspiration (from a theological standpoint) indicates the Spirit's guidance or direction in what the original authors wrote. Perhaps a better term would be "expiration" or breathed out as Scripture tells us that all of Scripture is "God breathed." Unfortunately, we tend to associate "expiration" with something breathing its last breath, dying or going bad. However, Scripturally speaking, the Bible was breathed out (expired) by God, himself. So, everything the Bible says is precisely what God desired would be written.

Revelation - All Scripture is inspired, but not all Scripture is revelation. Revelation indicates something that was made known by God that could not have been known apart from God revealing it. Much of the Bible is narrative and history. So while God may have guided certain historical accounts to be written in a specific way, that does not mean that God was dictating the information to the author or that it was specifically revealed by God. In fact, Luke records that much of what he wrote came about by his own personal investigation of eye witnesses. Yet the Bible does contain revelation and shares information that was revealed directly from God to the authors. However, let us not be confused that simply because something is not a direct quote from a revealed word from God that it is not, therefore, inspired or is somehow less a product of God's Spirit. A narrative about something Satan said is still an inspired Word from God even though it may not be a direct quote from God as an act of inspiration.

So, how does this relate to the various versions we have? Well, our translations are based on what we understand the original, inspired writings to say. Most of these translations seek to communicate that message in various languages and at various reading levels. Therefore, the versions (most of them, anyway) are based on a translators (or many translators) understanding of what the inspired originals contained. The original writings of the NT were written in Koine Greek. Since that time, the Bible has been translated into thousands of languages and some of languages have many many different translations based out of the same understanding of the original writings. In sum, we should not suggest (as some mentioned earlier) that because there are many versions, that it proves that one or all of them are wrong. By that rationale, only one language can contain the authentic message since any attempt to translate it to a different language would be different from (and thus inferior to) the original. This is very poor reasoning. Those who think in such a way are forced to argue that certain translations are also inspired (which the Bible does not teach) and of course they usually pick their favorite version in their own native language (go figure) as the one translation that is genuinely inspired. The fact is, any translation that accurately reflects what the first authors wrote is satisfactory. If one translation says, "Whosoever believeth in him shall not perish..." and another says, "whoever believes in him will not perish...." the issue is not whether or not God is incapable of communicating if we don't add the "th" on believe or change "shall not" with a more contemporary "will not." The issue is the message that if we believe in Jesus we will not be destroyed by the wrath of God. That is what the original authors were trying to communicate and whether we read it in Greek, Spanish, King James English or contemporary English doesn't matter so much as the reader actually puts their trust in Jesus and acts upon what the authors (and the Spirit inspiring the authors) were trying to say.

Finally, I want to address this nonsense about calling the Bible the "Word of God" which must mean the Bible = God. The fact is, if we believe the Bible is inspired by God, then it is the very Word of God. It is the breathed out Word of God and thus it reflects the very nature, purposes and desires of the Almighty to humanity. In fact, the Bible contains the Gospel of Jesus Christ which Paul declares to be both the very Word of God and the power of God to save people from eternal destruction. God is not like human beings. God is inseparable from His Word. His Word is a direct expression of himself. It is absolute truth and when we read God's Word we should address that Word as though God is directly speaking to us in that moment. So, God's message and words are directly intertwined with his being, nature and character. When Jesus spoke, his words had the authority of the Almighty because he was the Word made flesh and his words were not his own, but were of the Father. In the same way, the Scriptures are of God and the Word of God, we are saying that they carry all the truth, authority, purity and power of God. They are not meaningless memoirs, or human inventions. They are living, active and life-transforming words that are the truth of God that brings new creation and life into those who accept them and believe them. Jesus likens the Word of God to a seed. When planted and watered they bring life and transformation to those who accept them. They unleash the very life and power of the Spirit into the heart of those who receive them. Thus, the Bible is the Word of God that is inspired and contains revelation about the plans and purposes of God in the world.
 

mjrhealth

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BreadOfLife said:
You may have been "raised" Catholic but it is blindingly clear that you were ignorant of your faith as a Catholic.
First of all - the "Rock" that is spoken of in Matt. 16:18 is none other than Peter - and I'll prove it to you in the proper linguistic context.

As you know, the Lord said to Peter, “And so I say to you, you are Peter (Petros), and upon this rock (Petra) I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”
YOU believe Peter is not the Rock but that the Rock refers to his confession of faith. It couldn’t be Peter because the Greek words used here are Petros, meaning, small stone and Petra, meaning, large mass of rock. Other non-Catholics say that the Rock is Jesus because he is referred to as "Rock elsewhere, including, Matt. 21:42 and 1 Pet. 2:3-8. The problem with this is that Jesus didn’t speak Greek to his Apostles - he spoke Aramaic.

What Jesus actually said was, “And so I say to you, you are KEPHA, and upon this rock KEPHA I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”
This is why St. Peter is referred to as Cephas in many of St. Paul’s letters, because Cephas is the closest Greek transliteration of the Aramaic, Kepha.

There is another problem for anti-Catholics. Petra is a feminine Greek noun and could hardly be used to describe a man, so the word was translated as Petros in Scripture because it was being used in reference to a man. I would ne similar to calling him "Patty" instead of Peter.

Finally - as to Catholics being the first Christians - we are the ONLY Church that can trace ourselves back to Jesus and the apostles in an UNBROKEN line of succession.
YOUR sect cannot make that claim nor can ANY other sect. We see the name "The Catholic Church" being used as a TITLE as early as AD 107 in the Letter to the Smyrnaeans by Ignatius of Antioch.

Linguistics, history and context are NOT your friend . . .
Yes I know who my Faith is in, Jesus teh Christ, the one who gave His life for me and all mankind, teh one that is building His "eclessia" based on revelation from God, not from a church riddled in Hypocrisy, believe me it is beyond me that anyone could call her "chrisian" considering all the antichristian things she has done, and I have read and studied enough, but some prefer there religion to God that is not His doing.

we are the ONLY Church that can trace ourselves back to Jesus a
no you cannot only back to whats his face that roman guy.

So willing to live a lie and reject the truth that is Jesus.

Didnt know one of you "popes" had being a pirate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipope_John_XXIII

and no read about it in a book about the popes

No one here hates "catholics" its tha treligion catholism' that is teh issue.
 

mjrhealth

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he fact is, if we believe the Bible is inspired by God, then
The bible says "scripture" which part of the bible is scripture and which part is not, whci part is inspred by God which part was simply a tesimony written by men, no one desires God to busy proving there knowldege of teh bible than seeking His face.One God one Jesu one Spirit, so which God do you worship, teh KJ, the NIV the NSV or one of teh other many differnt version of God.If its not the same it isdifferent even my 4 year old grandaughter understands that. Unless God has multiple personalities..
 

BreadOfLife

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mjrhealth said:
Yes I know who my Faith is in, Jesus teh Christ, the one who gave His life for me and all mankind, teh one that is building His "eclessia" based on revelation from God, not from a church riddled in Hypocrisy, believe me it is beyond me that anyone could call her "chrisian" considering all the antichristian things she has done, and I have read and studied enough, but some prefer there religion to God that is not His doing.

no you cannot only back to whats his face that roman guy.

So willing to live a lie and reject the truth that is Jesus.

Didnt know one of you "popes" had being a pirate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipope_John_XXIII

and no read about it in a book about the popes

No one here hates "catholics" its tha treligion catholism' that is teh issue.
Only goes as far back as "that Roman guy"??
And that would be . . . WHO?? Historical evidence please . . .

As far as there being some bad people in the Church's history who did some bad things - I don't know of ONE single sect that has only perfect people as members. To say that the catholic church is not the church established by Jesus because there were some bad guys in it is to be completely ignorant of the Scriptures that warn about exactly that (Matt. 7:15-20).

Jesus pretty much guaranteed that there would be bad people in his Church. There was a bad guy at the very beginning who betrayed him, in case you forgot.

As for being totally ignorant of the church you once belonged to - I hit the nail right on the head.
YOUR problem is that you don't understand what the Church is. Allow me to educate you . . .

1. Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.
2. Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
3. Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
4. The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
5. The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
6. The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
7. Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
8. Jesus gave the Church Supreme Authority on earth and WHATEVER it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).
 

bbyrd009

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ya, allow him to edumacate you, major! If you don't feel the love yet, he is just going to love you harder and harder until you do, lol.
prolly almost no God complex there at all, almost surely probably. Just another humble guy lol, spreading the love. Yikes.
 

mjrhealth

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1. Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.
2. Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
3. Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
4. The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
5. The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
6. The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
7. Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
8. Jesus gave the Church Supreme Authority on earth and WHATEVER it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).
being so learned I woudl advise you to look up that word church, it means no such thing, Jesus never gave your church any authorty it was demanded for and given to by men, it ony has authority over catholics it aint my church neirther is it the Lords. You know what Antichrist is, any thing that opposes Christ and your church has done that since its very founadtion, murdered Jews. murdered Christians, murdered and tourtured any one who opposed it, just like an incorrigible little kid, demanding all must obey or else, look at me look at me she screams, you must look at me. I demand it. Sorry God has already got plans for her and her friends and they are not nice.
 

Wormwood

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mjrhealth said:
The bible says "scripture" which part of the bible is scripture and which part is not, whci part is inspred by God which part was simply a tesimony written by men, no one desires God to busy proving there knowldege of teh bible than seeking His face.One God one Jesu one Spirit, so which God do you worship, teh KJ, the NIV the NSV or one of teh other many differnt version of God.If its not the same it isdifferent even my 4 year old grandaughter understands that. Unless God has multiple personalities..
So your argument is that not all of the Bible is Scripture and parts of it are not from God? If that is your belief, then I would contend that you are not a Christian. If you do not believe that the Bible is of God then you have departed from one of the most fundamental beliefs Christians have held from the very beginning. Even Jesus said Scripture could not be broken (and yes, the NT speaks of other NT letters as "Scripture" and has been believed as such from our earliest recorded Christian history). I guess none of that matters if "mj" doesn't like it...smh

The fact of the matter, mj, is that we learn the truth of Jesus Christ and the Gospel through the message of the Scriptures and our knowledge of God comes from his message to us through his Word. I know you don't like this, because you like to fancy yourself as a walking prophet that alone has direct revelation from God that all us lower, carnal folk are not privy to. I have the Spirit of God as a follower of Jesus Christ, but the Spirit God has given me is not antithetical to the Word of truth that the Spirit inspired and has been passed down through the ages by the blood of holy men and women. You continually belittle the Scriptures because you want people to look to you, not them for guidance and inspiration. If you knew God, as you claim to, you wouldn't claim the Bible, or parts of it, are not from Him.

Finally, the problem here is that you are thinking like a 4 year old instead of an adult when it comes to the message of the Bible. Let me ask you a question. Suppose that I have two copies of the book "To Kill a Mockingbird." One copy is in English and the other is in Spanish. Are you going to tell me that one is a legitimate copy and the other is not legitimate because it is "different?" If I read the book in Spanish, have I not really read the book? Really? Or suppose I do a math problem such as 2+2=4 and then use Roman numerals. II+II=IV. Are you suggesting that one is wrong because they are "different"? Stop thinking like a child. You like to paint everything black and white and make it appear as no other person and not even the Bible can discern which is which, save you alone. You sound very much like those who take followers after themselves and form isolated compounds where the people are called to look to their leader for all the answers about God and Jesus. Scary stuff you are spouting.
 

bbyrd009

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you might see how that sounds coming from a Catholic, lol, no offense. To Kill a Mockingbird would read differently in a different language, although it would be close, depending upon how good the translator was at rendering the inevitable colloquialisms (slang), right. So, see that it does not conflate with the math example very well in that sense.

If you want to insist that the Bible is the Word, then you have to deal with

In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God

on some level, at least a personal level, it seems to me. Imo what we have maybe been dancing around, and not really addressing, is perhaps the progression that seems to occur from making the Book = Word, which the next step is then naturally that one has to obey the Word to be saved, only now it is the Book that must be obeyed, which really who can have a problem with that, right? Nobody. So then, since i love me some Jesus, and i can read English, the final step is to condemn you to hell, when you do not agree with my reading of the Book, that is of course now conflated with God, and used to condemn, no less (when God does not condemn anyone, as can easily be demonstrated from Scripture, God is Love, when is the last time some little kid condemned you for anything, etc).

So, not even considering that this obscures the Word, which is near to anyone, anytime, that they may obtain It, and also ignoring the multiple warnings in the Book Itself about making the Book into the Word, cue mjrhealth, i think the mechanism for turning oneself into God is not being confronted here.

Another way to perceive this might be that if you disagree with any of my interpretation up there, me, who can read English, and loves me some Jesus, then of course you are doomed to hell, Eternal Damnation in the Fiery Teeth-Gnashing Eternity of the Pit, which is of course "forever," or at least a really really long time, until God dies, or whatever mis-defined view i have of "eternity." And the point here is that while i imagine that i have condemned you, for whatever reason you don't seem to be buying it, although i cannot imagine why not, here let me educate you. Lol.

So it becomes clear who is the condemned in this scenario, i hope
 

bbyrd009

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those who take followers after themselves and form isolated compounds where the people are called to look to their leader for all the answers about God and Jesus
oh, you mean Monasteries? Or the Vatican itself? Or what?

With all due respect, when i showed you the flag of the Vatican, that isolates it from you--or at least from me, and most of the rest of the planet, as it sits legally isolated from it, like Wash DC and London do, too--did that just not really compute, or do you suspect that is a myth, or do you think that i am lying, or what? Of course i am being persnickety here on purpose, but i mean read wht you wrote from the rest of the world's pov, if you will.

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Or, another way to frame that is, in your opinion is it possible for a Sufi to be accepted by God without converting? If not, haven't you effectively isolated yourself?
 

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BreadOfLife

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mjrhealth said:
being so learned I woudl advise you to look up that word church, it means no such thing, Jesus never gave your church any authorty it was demanded for and given to by men, it ony has authority over catholics it aint my church neirther is it the Lords. You know what Antichrist is, any thing that opposes Christ and your church has done that since its very founadtion, murdered Jews. murdered Christians, murdered and tourtured any one who opposed it, just like an incorrigible little kid, demanding all must obey or else, look at me look at me she screams, you must look at me. I demand it. Sorry God has already got plans for her and her friends and they are not nice.
[SIZE=10.5pt]And, as I educated you earlier - [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]I don't know of ONE [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]single sect that has only perfect[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] people as members. To say that the Catholic Church is NOT[/SIZE] the church established by Jesus because there were some [SIZE=10.5pt]bad guys[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] in it is to be completely ignorant [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]of the Scriptures that warn about exactly that[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] (Matt. 7:15-20)[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]. Jesus pretty much guaranteed[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] that there would be bad people in his Church. There was a bad guy at the very beginning[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] who betrayed [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]him, in case you forgot.

As for the Church NOT having Supreme Authority[/SIZE] - you have to perform some pretty impressive Scriptural acrobatics to get around these verses . . .
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Matt 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

I will give YOU the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:18[/SIZE]
Amen, I say to you, whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

[SIZE=10.5pt]Luke 10:16[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Whoever listens to YOU listens to me. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the one who sent me."

John 20:21-23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Whose sins YOU forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU retain are retained.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Acts 9:4-5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting ME?”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, “I am JESUS, whom you are persecuting.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Eph. 1:22-23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the CHURCH, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]1 Tim. 3:15[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.[/SIZE]
 

BreadOfLife

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bbyrd009 said:
If you want to insist that the Bible is the Word, then you have to deal with

In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God

on some level, at least a personal level, it seems to me. Imo what we have maybe been dancing around, and not really addressing, is perhaps the progression that seems to occur from making the Book = Word, . . .
And this is where you fall off the rails.

WHO said that the Bible is the ENTIRE Word of God?? Anybody who makes this claim doesn't understand the Bible itself.
The Word of God doesn't equal the Bible. The Bible is just the WRITTEN Word of God.

When I read tripe like this, it's not difficult to understand why we have the mess of almost 50,000 disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions - ALL teaching different doctrines and ALL claiming to have the "Truth."
 
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