Why aren't you struggling with this question

[Taken]

We are no-longer under the law given to Moses. Romans 8:1 says.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Broadly speaking;
"We" who are Gentiles were never Under 'The Law of Moses'.

In a Republic Government;
Laws are created by "agreement" of the People to Obey the Laws, that Apply to them.

To the Hebrews...
The Hebrews "agreed".
Ex 19:
[8] And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

Every Apostle was sent out continuing Jesus' intent...seeking First the Lost Jews.

Matt 15: (to a woman of Caanan)
[24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

It's a paradox of sorts.
Yes Jesus was sent, and sent Apostles First to the Lost Jews, (primarily going to "Areas / Cities" Where Large portions of Jews lived", and thereafter to all the Tribes of Israel...
However: the Preaching was not Confined to Enclosed Temples, Synagogs, and crowds of "People Listening" were Mixed...Jews and Gentiles.

Jews historically Believing in God, Historically, Under the Law of Moses, were being Taught "Their awaited Messiah had Arrived".

Paul's mission, was to go Preach in Areas/Cities, where Gentiles were the Primary bulk of the Population, Preaching; "God AND Gods Christ Messiah" and that the Messiah had Arrived. And The "Listening Crowds"...as with the other Apostles, AND Jesus were Mixed, Jews and Gentiles.

The Preaching, (Hearing) and Miracles, (Seeing)...Hinged on TWO Things...
Hearing...
Seeing...

OT men (majority) Heard...
After "Seeing" "the foretold" come to pass, were elated...momentarily. However, majority failed "to Trust", "until" they could "SEE" the foretold come to pass.
(God called them STIFF-NECKED).

EX 33:

1. [3] Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art astiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.
2. [5] For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee.

Paul also said to Jews;

Acts 7

1. [51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

The POINT OF the LAW...is to Teach a specific WAY...PATH...to Follow, (According to God)...FOR the MOST Beneficial outcome FOR mankind.

The POINT OF SPREADING Gods WORD, is for Hearing...(without SEEING God)...yet "IF" one is DOING Gods Word...the individual REAPS and Recognizes the Personal Benefits IN his Own individual Life....which results in TRUST IN The Lord God.

Yes, Jesus (the Word of God) Fulfilled ...(particular) "Portions of Mosaic Law"... AND ... Man's Civil Law"

Portions?
Yes. Particular thing He was sent TO Accomplish, and Did. And called What He accomplished...accomplished...Finished.

Isa 55;

1. [11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

John 17:

1. [4] "I have glorified thee on the earth:" I have finishedthe work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:
[28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
[29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Scripture reveals the Knowledge of ALL the things Jesus Accomplished and Finished.
For Example;
* Taking Upon Himself the Seed of Abraham.
(Heb 2:16)
* Glorifying Gods Name on Earth
* SPREADING the Word of God to all people.
* Offering to all people His Blood for remission of the OF having had Disbelief in God and His Word.
* Dividing People In Belief, from those without Belief.
(Luke 12:51)
* Giving "Enlightenment" to those Beginning to Hear and Believe.
* Giving Once and "everlasting" Forgiveness, Life, FAITH, Salvation, Sanctification, Peace, Truth, Understanding, Heart Circumcision, Abraham's Seed, Gods SEED, Gods "Reflective" Glory, and Rest, "to those who "Willingly" and "Freely" ELECT to Convert."
* Relieving ANY Man of the of the TRIBES of ISRAEL, ( who Converts ) FROM the "Curse LAWS"... otherwise moderningly known as PENAL LAWS, (punishments) for having Violated a Postitve Law (Applicable Directive).
So much More He Accomplished.

And so much More shall be Accomplished and that Phase Will BE "Called DONE".

Rev 16:
[17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev.21
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev.22
[6] And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.


Romans 8:
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jew, Gentile...no matter. IF they are in Christ "there IS NO "Condemnation" ... "or" Wrath Appointed unto THEM.

1 Thes 5:

1. [9] For God hath "not" appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Those WHO ARE "in Christ Jesus"...ARE already, Converted and Prepared For Redemption.
Their Body is already Crucified...DEAD.
They Live IN Christ's Jesus' Risen Body.

John 20:
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Joseph77]

Broadly speaking;
"We" who are Gentiles were never Under 'The Law of Moses'.

By 'The Law of Moses', do you mean or refer to or include TORAH from God ?

 

[Joseph77]

No. TORAH was never, not once, not ever, a curse.
(In case no one mentioned this yet, earlier in this thread)

Before Christ, the law was a curse to men since they could not stand up under it.

 

[Taken]

By 'The Law of Moses', do you mean or refer to or include TORAH from God ?

I'm not Jewish, nor can site their Holy Books, of which books contain what.

I refer to the Law of Moses pertaining to the Bible...
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Christians refer to these books as the Pentateuch... Jews I believe call the same, The Torah.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Joseph77]

I'm not Jewish, nor can site their Holy Books, of which books contain what.

I refer to the Law of Moses pertaining to the Bible...
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Christians refer to these books as the Pentateuch... Jews I believe call the same, The Torah.

Glory to God,
Taken

Good, it took a bit, but you did answer the question, in a round-a-bout, defensive way.
Who is able to WRITE in someone's heart?
What does Scripture say HE WRITES in their hearts, when He does ? What they then DO ?

Did you see what Romans chapter 2 says about TORAH and gentiles ?

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2 - Complete Jewish Bible

For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don’t have Torah, for themselves are Torah!

For their lives show that the conduct the Torah dictates is written in their hearts.

 

[Taken]

Good, it took a bit, but you did answer the question, in a round-a-bout, defensive way.

I was neither round about or defensive.

Who is able to WRITE in someone's heart?
What does Scripture say HE WRITES in their hearts, when He does ? What they then DO ?

Did you see what Romans chapter 2 says about TORAH and gentiles ?

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2 - Complete Jewish Bible

For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, "do naturally" what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don’t have Torah, for themselves are Torah!

For their lives show that the conduct the Torah dictates is written in their hearts.

Are you accusing me of "doing naturally", because I am Not Under the Mosaic Law?

Rom
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

I am a Gentile...which have Not "the Mosaic Law"...

What are the "things", you accuse me of, implying "I Do"..."naturally" but according to the law?

Claim I am a Jew?
Celebrate Passover?
Celebrate and Keep all the Sabbath days?
Keep All and participate in all Jewish Festival days?
Keep wondering WHEN will the Messiah will first show up on Earth?

What...is your accusation precisely...
And When have you observed me doing those things?

 

[Joseph77]

I was neither round about or defensive.



Are you accusing me of "doing naturally", because I am Not Under the Mosaic Law?

Rom
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

I am a Gentile...which have Not "the Mosaic Law"...

What are the "things", you accuse me of, implying "I Do"..."naturally" but according to the law?

Claim I am a Jew?
Celebrate Passover?
Celebrate and Keep all the Sabbath days?
Keep All and participate in all Jewish Festival days?
Keep wondering WHEN will the Messiah will first show up on Earth?

What...is your accusation precisely...
And When have you observed me doing those things?

You almost got there (to what is written in Romans 2, what IS WRITTEN , and BY WHOM, on the hearts of gentiles, WHEN it is written (on most it never is).
Continue .....

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

No. TORAH was never, not once, not ever, a curse.
(In case no one mentioned this yet, earlier in this thread)

No, it was since it was a standard they could not stand up to. In that sense it was a curse, but in the overall sense it was a blessing because at least it gave them direction to stand.

 

[Joseph77]

Show from God's Word what God Says about Torah. ( over one hundred times in the NT, and many times in the OT)

No, it was since it was a standard they could not stand up to. In that sense it was a curse, but in the overall sense it was a blessing because at least it gave them direction to stand.

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

Hello @RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald,

I can understand why @Angelina finds it hard to understand what you are trying to convey, because so do I. Your words appear to contradict one another. It could be that as Angelina has said, that she is from New Zealand, and that her perspective and manner of expression differs from your own, as mine does, living in the UK.

I hope I am misunderstanding you, for you appear to be saying that the sacrificial offering of Christ is not sufficient in itself to save me from my sin, and ensure me the gift of God which is eternal life through Jesus Christ my Lord. Is this true? Do you believe that the shedding of His blood was not sufficient to save to the uttermost those who come unto Him for salvatioin?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Paul's writings were hard to understand and mine are for the same reason. And no, you've misunderstood again. In himself man can't stand but in Christ a man can stand. So then, in Christ a man can be perfect while in himself he can't. All men have fallen short, but they don't have to continue doing that when it comes to Christ. His power allowed him to stand in full, so if you have the same power, then why can't you stand in full right now at this omment.

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

Show from God's Word what God Says about Torah. ( over one hundred times in the NT, and many times in the OT)

Show form the bible where it says I need to quote from it and use it as a basis for everything. Spoiler, it doesn't. Even it doesn't talk about this concept. Rather, it's your own false concept which says I need to have it as a pillar by which I stand. The only pillar I need is Christ for ability, the Spirit (which resides in me and not in that book) for guidance, and God to be the source of it all

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

What law are you talking about? The cursed law that includes such things as not cutting the sides of your beard? My beard don't grow in good on the sides, so I shave that part. Will this send me to Hell?

You misunderstood. Reread it and come back when you understand it

 

[Joseph77]

So there's no Biblical Standard in your posts, and nothing to discuss any further. Everything not proven by Scripture as true, is false or presumed to be false. Or at least not acceptable as truth to rely on - nothing to proceed on nor to build upon. This is as written.
So the posts you make are all presumed to be false, and/or false motive- direction- purpose , since there is no Scripture standard for them.

Show form the bible where it says I need to quote from it and use it as a basis for everything.

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

So there's no Biblical Standard in your posts, and nothing to discuss any further. Everything not proven by Scripture as true, is false or presumed to be false. This is as written.
So the posts you make are all presumed to be false, and/or false motive- direction- purpose , since there is no Scripture standard for them.

Bible boy, how do you think the authors of these books you read everyday got truth? By quoting themselves? Also, their writings differ far more than yours. They use scripture when it's convenient, however you use it as a basis. Their writings aren't full of 100s of references. In fact, the writings sometimes contain no references at all! In short, they have a different basis than you. Yours is the bible while theirs is the Spirit of God. The only reason why other writings are used is because it's convenient at the time/ the idea they need is conveyed in that writing. However, the idea they are conveying is not isolated to that writing.

 

[Joseph77]

Jesus says plainly, whoever rejects Scripture, has already rejected Jesus and the Father.

 

[RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald]

Jesus says plainly, whoever rejects Scripture, has already rejected Jesus and the Father.

Where, please tell. He says reject those whoever reject the truth, but the bible you're talking about isn't truth. It's of your own creation. God never prophesied about it because he never intended it to exist. Rather he sent down his spirit, but rather you have made your own spirit and called it the bible

 

[Renniks]

You misunderstood. Reread it and come back when you understand it

Ok, I was assuming if one has questions they could ask for clarification?

 

[Angelina]

Okay @RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald from the previous conversation. It appears that you believe that since Jesus has died on the cross, we should be able to now follow the Law given to Moses. Is that correct? You also stated the we do not need to follow the Bible because the Holy Spirit is our guide and not the bible because it is manmade. Is that correct? Tell me, how is it the the Holy Spirit is dwelling in you? what is your testimony regarding this?

 

[Renniks]

Why should I read the bible when I have the Spirit of God right here? The Spirit of God is inside me and not the Bible, or did you forget that fact?

The Spirit's will is that you read the Bible. God inhabits his Word.

 

[Willie T]

"The Spirit" brings us remembrances of what we have already learned.... and brings teaching that delivers that "learning" in many different ways.
We do not just sit, and wait for The Spirit to smack us up 'side the head, out of the blue.