Why Christians not under the Torah

[dak]

I'll stick with the New Covenant in Jesus' Blood.

Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

There is so much wrong with that rendering and your perspective.

In that He says renewed, He has made the former old: and that which is waxing old and decaying is near to vanishing.

Waxing old, decaying, (and dying), are references to the flesh and the physical, which does just that. This is speaking of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, Chief Priests, Scribes, and their carnal minded understanding and interpretations of the Torah, which were erroneous and against the people.

Moreover the former is not the same as the first, which is an important distinction and why I render protos that way herein, for the first, (Exodus 19->31), will never pass away. However it was taken from Yisrael because of the golden calf incident, (Exodus 32), where the first two tablets of the Ten Words were broken by Mosheh when he beheld what they had done.

After that a renewed covenant was given, based on the logos within the rhema-spoken words in the first covenant, and that covenant is found in Exodus 34. That covenant is susceptible to annulment because it is personal and individual, and if later the rulers of the people began to misunderstand and misinterpret that covenant then it could indeed be abolished. The renewed covenant in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8 is the first covenant being renewed and written upon the heart by way of the logos contained within it and as expounded in the Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts, (without understanding his Testimony one will never get it).

 

[Jack]

There is so much wrong with that rendering and your perspective.

In that He says renewed, He has made the former old: and that which is waxing old and decaying is near to vanishing.

Waxing old, decaying, (and dying), are references to the flesh and the physical, which does just that. This is speaking of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, Chief Priests, Scribes, and their carnal minded understanding and interpretations of the Torah, which were erroneous and against the people.

Moreover the former is not the same as the first, which is an important distinction and why I render protos that way herein, for the first, (Exodus 19->31), will never pass away. However it was taken from Yisrael because of the golden calf incident, (Exodus 32), where the first two tablets of the Ten Words were broken by Mosheh when he beheld what they had done.

After that a renewed covenant was given, based on the logos within the rhema-spoken words in the first covenant, and that covenant is found in Exodus 34. That covenant is susceptible to annulment because it is personal and individual, and if later the rulers of the people began to misunderstand and misinterpret that covenant then it could indeed be abolished. The renewed covenant in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8 is the first covenant being renewed and written upon the heart by way of the logos contained within it and as expounded in the Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts, (without understanding his Testimony one will never get it).

All you have given are YOUR opinions! Your opinions do not overrule Jesus. I'll stick with Jesus, God of the Bible and His Blood Covenant, the New Covenant!

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

 

[dak]

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

That says "the works of the law", not the Torah itself, for the works of the law is an idiom for the teachings and instructions of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, Chief Priests, and Scribes, based on their own faulty, natural minded, carnal understandings of the Torah which were nailed to the stake.

Moreover I am neither "under" the Torah, nor "under" the curse of the Torah: that was one of the reasons for trying to show you why "OBEY" is an incorrect antinomian rendering by the KJV. It is not about OBEY, OBEY, OBEY, it is about LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. Anyone who indeed loves the Father and His Word who is His Son is not going to seek to abolish His Word who is His Son, and that includes the Torah which is full of Living Oracles, (Acts 7:37-38).

Meshiah took the curse of the Torah upon himself in my place: I therefore have no reason to fear Torah observance knowing that the Torah is spiritual, (again, Rom 7:14a), and neither do I have any reason or need to abolish or sideline the Torah, for I can do all things through Meshiah who strengthens me by his holy Testimony in the Gospel accounts. You have that need because your own carnal mind cannot understand the Torah, nor can it be subject to the Torah, and that is because you choose death, (Deut 30:11-19 and Romans 10:6-8 quoting from that same passage), that is, the Pharisee natural minded physical way of understanding everything in the Torah as fleshly and physical in meaning, which is to choose death over life even according to Paul in the Rom 8:4-8 passage already mentioned previously in Reply#19.

Moreover, also according to Paul in 2Cor 3:7-16, (take note: where he quotes from Exodus 34 and calls that covenant the old covenant, just as I have already explained to you), he says that the veil over your heart and mind when you read the old covenant can only be removed "IN MESHIAH, (or "IN CHRIST"), which means that currently you are not "IN CHRIST" according to Paul. You've been spoon fed and sold a bill of goods from scripture illiterates who neither understand Meshiah, nor Paul, nor the Torah.

The goal is to have the veil removed from your heart and mind in Meshiah: not to take it upon yourself to remove the Torah from your heart, mind, and eyes! Paul is not teaching what you are teaching by twisting so many of his words and statements to fit your own paradigm. You are preaching a different gospel than Paul: and therefore I am admonished by Paul himself to consider you to be the one who is accursed.

 

[Jack]

That says "the works of the law", not the Torah itself, for the works of the law is an idiom for the teachings and instructions of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, Chief Priests, and Scribes, based on their own faulty, natural minded, carnal understandings of the Torah which were nailed to the stake.

Torah is THE LAW of Moses! Now you know.

Moreover I am neither "under" the Torah, nor "under" the curse of the Torah: that was one of the reasons for trying to show you why "OBEY" is an incorrect antinomian rendering by the KJV. It is not about OBEY, OBEY, OBEY, it is about LOVE, LOVE, LOVE.

Then we agree, you don't obey Torah!

 

[dak]

Then we agree, you don't obey Torah!

Correction: I do not "obey" Torah according to your understanding, which is carnal and flesh minded, and especially when it comes to your understanding of the sacrifices, which agrees with the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, and which is abomination in the eyes of the Most High. If you loved the Father and His Word who is His Son you would know such things.

 

[Jack]

Correction: I do not "obey" Torah according to your understanding, which is carnal and flesh minded, and especially when it comes to your understanding of the sacrifices, which agrees with the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, and which is abomination in the eyes of the Most High. If you loved the Father and His Word who is His Son you would know such things.

I know what Torah says. You should read it. You don't obey it.

 

[dak]

I know what Torah says. You should read it. You don't obey it.

This is now becoming just a disruption of this thread. Have a nice day.
Nice chatting.

 

[Jack]

This is now becoming just a disruption of this thread. Have a nice day.
Nice chatting. View attachment 85415

Still don't know anyone who obeys Torah? Neither do I. Don't preach it until YOU obey it!