Why Christians not under the Torah

[dak]

I'll stick with the New Covenant in Jesus' Blood.

Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

There is so much wrong with that rendering and your perspective.

In that He says renewed, He has made the former old: and that which is waxing old and decaying is near to vanishing.

Waxing old, decaying, (and dying), are references to the flesh and the physical, which does just that. This is speaking of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, Chief Priests, Scribes, and their carnal minded understanding and interpretations of the Torah, which were erroneous and against the people.

Moreover the former is not the same as the first, which is an important distinction and why I render protos that way herein, for the first, (Exodus 19->31), will never pass away. However it was taken from Yisrael because of the golden calf incident, (Exodus 32), where the first two tablets of the Ten Words were broken by Mosheh when he beheld what they had done.

After that a renewed covenant was given, based on the logos within the rhema-spoken words in the first covenant, and that covenant is found in Exodus 34. That covenant is susceptible to annulment because it is personal and individual, and if later the rulers of the people began to misunderstand and misinterpret that covenant then it could indeed be abolished. The renewed covenant in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8 is the first covenant being renewed and written upon the heart by way of the logos contained within it and as expounded in the Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts, (without understanding his Testimony one will never get it).

 

[Jack]

There is so much wrong with that rendering and your perspective.

In that He says renewed, He has made the former old: and that which is waxing old and decaying is near to vanishing.

Waxing old, decaying, (and dying), are references to the flesh and the physical, which does just that. This is speaking of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, Chief Priests, Scribes, and their carnal minded understanding and interpretations of the Torah, which were erroneous and against the people.

Moreover the former is not the same as the first, which is an important distinction and why I render protos that way herein, for the first, (Exodus 19->31), will never pass away. However it was taken from Yisrael because of the golden calf incident, (Exodus 32), where the first two tablets of the Ten Words were broken by Mosheh when he beheld what they had done.

After that a renewed covenant was given, based on the logos within the rhema-spoken words in the first covenant, and that covenant is found in Exodus 34. That covenant is susceptible to annulment because it is personal and individual, and if later the rulers of the people began to misunderstand and misinterpret that covenant then it could indeed be abolished. The renewed covenant in Jer. 31 and Heb. 8 is the first covenant being renewed and written upon the heart by way of the logos contained within it and as expounded in the Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts, (without understanding his Testimony one will never get it).

All you have given are YOUR opinions! Your opinions do not overrule Jesus. I'll stick with Jesus, God of the Bible and His Blood Covenant, the New Covenant!

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

 

[dak]

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

That says "the works of the law", not the Torah itself, for the works of the law is an idiom for the teachings and instructions of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, Chief Priests, and Scribes, based on their own faulty, natural minded, carnal understandings of the Torah which were nailed to the stake.

Moreover I am neither "under" the Torah, nor "under" the curse of the Torah: that was one of the reasons for trying to show you why "OBEY" is an incorrect antinomian rendering by the KJV. It is not about OBEY, OBEY, OBEY, it is about LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. Anyone who indeed loves the Father and His Word who is His Son is not going to seek to abolish His Word who is His Son, and that includes the Torah which is full of Living Oracles, (Acts 7:37-38).

Meshiah took the curse of the Torah upon himself in my place: I therefore have no reason to fear Torah observance knowing that the Torah is spiritual, (again, Rom 7:14a), and neither do I have any reason or need to abolish or sideline the Torah, for I can do all things through Meshiah who strengthens me by his holy Testimony in the Gospel accounts. You have that need because your own carnal mind cannot understand the Torah, nor can it be subject to the Torah, and that is because you choose death, (Deut 30:11-19 and Romans 10:6-8 quoting from that same passage), that is, the Pharisee natural minded physical way of understanding everything in the Torah as fleshly and physical in meaning, which is to choose death over life even according to Paul in the Rom 8:4-8 passage already mentioned previously in Reply#19.

Moreover, also according to Paul in 2Cor 3:7-16, (take note: where he quotes from Exodus 34 and calls that covenant the old covenant, just as I have already explained to you), he says that the veil over your heart and mind when you read the old covenant can only be removed "IN MESHIAH, (or "IN CHRIST"), which means that currently you are not "IN CHRIST" according to Paul. You've been spoon fed and sold a bill of goods from scripture illiterates who neither understand Meshiah, nor Paul, nor the Torah.

The goal is to have the veil removed from your heart and mind in Meshiah: not to take it upon yourself to remove the Torah from your heart, mind, and eyes! Paul is not teaching what you are teaching by twisting so many of his words and statements to fit your own paradigm. You are preaching a different gospel than Paul: and therefore I am admonished by Paul himself to consider you to be the one who is accursed.

 

[Jack]

That says "the works of the law", not the Torah itself, for the works of the law is an idiom for the teachings and instructions of the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, Sadducees, Chief Priests, and Scribes, based on their own faulty, natural minded, carnal understandings of the Torah which were nailed to the stake.

Torah is THE LAW of Moses! Now you know.

Moreover I am neither "under" the Torah, nor "under" the curse of the Torah: that was one of the reasons for trying to show you why "OBEY" is an incorrect antinomian rendering by the KJV. It is not about OBEY, OBEY, OBEY, it is about LOVE, LOVE, LOVE.

Then we agree, you don't obey Torah!

 

[dak]

Then we agree, you don't obey Torah!

Correction: I do not "obey" Torah according to your understanding, which is carnal and flesh minded, and especially when it comes to your understanding of the sacrifices, which agrees with the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, and which is abomination in the eyes of the Most High. If you loved the Father and His Word who is His Son you would know such things.

 

[Jack]

Correction: I do not "obey" Torah according to your understanding, which is carnal and flesh minded, and especially when it comes to your understanding of the sacrifices, which agrees with the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, and which is abomination in the eyes of the Most High. If you loved the Father and His Word who is His Son you would know such things.

I know what Torah says. You should read it. You don't obey it.

 

[dak]

I know what Torah says. You should read it. You don't obey it.

This is now becoming just a disruption of this thread. Have a nice day.
Nice chatting.

 

[Jack]

This is now becoming just a disruption of this thread. Have a nice day.
Nice chatting. View attachment 85415

Still don't know anyone who obeys Torah? Neither do I. Don't preach it until YOU obey it!

 

[dak]

Still don't know anyone who obeys Torah? Neither do I. Don't preach it until YOU obey it!

In other words you preach the flesh because you obey it. Got it.

 

[Jack]

In other words you preach the flesh because you obey it. Got it.

Do you even have a blood sacrifice for your sins? I do.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[dak]

Do you even have a blood sacrifice for your sins? I do.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1) You do not understand the Torah.
2) The question you ask combined with the verse you have quoted reveals that you count the Meshiah is the replacement for all the animals you incorrectly assume to be meant in the sacrifices of the Torah, which again, is spiritual according to Paul in Rom 7:14a, and because of that error you ended up with a literal human sacrifice for your sins.
3) Did I not already warn you that literal-physical sacrifices and slaughtered living souls of the creation of Elohim are an abomination in the eyes of the Most High? Do you think I just made that up myself?

Isaiah 1:10-15 The Scriptures (ISR 1998)
10 Hear the word of יהוה, you rulers of Seḏom; give ear to the Torah of our Elohim, you people of Amorah!
11 “Of what use to Me are your many slaughterings?” declares יהוה. “I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed beasts. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs or goats.
12 “When you come to appear before Me, who has required this from your hand, to trample My courtyards?
13 “Stop bringing futile offerings, incense, it is an abomination to Me. New Moons, Sabbaths, the calling of meetings – I am unable to bear unrighteousness and assembly.
14 “My being hates your New Moons and your appointed times, they are a trouble to Me, I am weary of bearing them.
15 “And when you spread out your hands, I hide My eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I do not hear. Your hands have become filled with blood.

Animal sacrifices result in bloodguilt. Did I not already try to warn you that you have sided with the Pharisees against the teachings of the Master in the Gospel accounts? They did not understand the Torah much better than you do, and yet you are even worse off than them for using their interpretations of the Torah just so you can feel that you have a good reason to abolish it.

Isaiah 66:1-4 The Scriptures (ISR 1998)
1 Thus said יהוה, “The heavens are My throne, and the earth is My footstool. Where is this house that you build for Me? And where is this place of My rest?
2 “And all these My hand have made, and all these that exist,” declares יהוה. “Yet to such a one I look: on him who is poor and bruised of spirit, and who trembles at My Word.
3 “But whoever slaughters the bull slays a man; whoever slaughters the lamb breaks a dog’s neck; whoever brings a grain offering – pig’s blood; whoever burns incense blesses an idol. Indeed, they have chosen their own ways, and their being delights in their abominations.
4 “I shall also choose their punishments, and bring their fears on them. Because I called, but no one answered. I spoke and they did not hear, and they did evil before My eyes, and chose what was displeasing to Me.”

All of the supposed animal sacrifices in the Torah with their statutes and body parts use words that have double or multiple meanings: they can be understood as purely physical according to the carnal mind of the natural man, or they can be understood in supernal and spiritual ways according to the mind of the Spirit. There is therefore a choice to be made, which I have already mentioned, and which is found at the latter end of Deut 30 passage. You have chosen death instead of life, according to your natural minded, Pharisaic, strictly physical understanding of the Torah.
.

 

[Jack]

1) You do not understand the Torah.
2) The question you ask combined with the verse you have quoted reveals that you count the Meshiah is the replacement for all the animals you incorrectly assume to be meant in the sacrifices of the Torah, which again, is spiritual according to Paul in Rom 7:14a, and because of that error you ended up with a literal human sacrifice for your sins.
3) Did I not already warn you that literal-physical sacrifices and slaughtered living souls of the creation of Elohim are an abomination in the eyes of the Most High? Do you think I just made that up myself?

Isaiah 1:10-15 The Scriptures (ISR 1998)
10 Hear the word of יהוה, you rulers of Seḏom; give ear to the Torah of our Elohim, you people of Amorah!
11 “Of what use to Me are your many slaughterings?” declares יהוה. “I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed beasts. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs or goats.
12 “When you come to appear before Me, who has required this from your hand, to trample My courtyards?
13 “Stop bringing futile offerings, incense, it is an abomination to Me. New Moons, Sabbaths, the calling of meetings – I am unable to bear unrighteousness and assembly.
14 “My being hates your New Moons and your appointed times, they are a trouble to Me, I am weary of bearing them.
15 “And when you spread out your hands, I hide My eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I do not hear. Your hands have become filled with blood.

Animal sacrifices result in bloodguilt. Did I not already try to warn you that you have sided with the Pharisees against the teachings of the Master in the Gospel accounts? They did not understand the Torah much better than you do, and yet you are even worse off than them for using their interpretations of the Torah just so you can feel that you have a good reason to abolish it.

Isaiah 66:1-4 The Scriptures (ISR 1998)
1 Thus said יהוה, “The heavens are My throne, and the earth is My footstool. Where is this house that you build for Me? And where is this place of My rest?
2 “And all these My hand have made, and all these that exist,” declares יהוה. “Yet to such a one I look: on him who is poor and bruised of spirit, and who trembles at My Word.
3 “But whoever slaughters the bull slays a man; whoever slaughters the lamb breaks a dog’s neck; whoever brings a grain offering – pig’s blood; whoever burns incense blesses an idol. Indeed, they have chosen their own ways, and their being delights in their abominations.
4 “I shall also choose their punishments, and bring their fears on them. Because I called, but no one answered. I spoke and they did not hear, and they did evil before My eyes, and chose what was displeasing to Me.”

All of the supposed animal sacrifices in the Torah with their statutes and body parts use words that have double or multiple meanings: they can be understood as purely physical according to the carnal mind of the natural man, or they can be understood in supernal and spiritual ways according to the mind of the Spirit. There is therefore a choice to be made, which I have already mentioned, and which is found at the latter end of Deut 30 passage. You have chosen death instead of life, according to your natural minded, Pharisaic, strictly physical understanding of the Torah.
.

No sacrifice for your sins? I'll stick with Jesus!

Romans 5:8-9
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

 

[dak]

No sacrifice for your sins? I'll stick with Jesus!

Dream on, I said no such thing.

Romans 5:8-9
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

You do not realize the dilemma you have created for yourself? If you are going to view the Torah as literal and physical, you are required to view and understand all of it that way, not just the parts you pick and choose to read that way, otherwise you make yourself a double-minded hypocrite, and this is especially true concerning the sacrifices. However you cannot possibly do that and adhere to the teachings of Meshiah and also even Paul at the same time.

For example:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8 KJV
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

According to your carnal minded understanding of the Pesakh, (Passover), and because you count the crucifixion of the Meshiah as a literal human sacrifice for your sins, replacing all of your supposed-assumed animal sacrifices in the Torah with the body of Meshiah as your literal human sacrifice in the place of literal animal sacrifices: you therefore cannot do as Paul admonishes the Corinthians to do in the above passage because you do not have the literal blood of Meshiah from the crucifixion in order to apply it to the side posts and lintel of the door of your house.

No blood of the Lamb = Destroyer/Death Angel has free entry into your house.

Again, you choose death, and again, you preach a false gospel which is utterly different from the Gospel of Paul, which makes you accursed according to Paul's own words.

 

[Behold]

Christians are not under Moses Law, because they are under "God's Grace."

"Christ is the END of the LAW for RIGHTEOUSNESS, for everyone who BELIEVES"..

Now here is the issue that Jews have.......religious jews.

"Being ignorant of GOD's Righteousness, they go about to establish their own"... by trying to keep Moses law.

And Christians who do not understand their Salvation, who have not "worked it out".......are doing the same thing.
They are trying to PERFORM before God, to try to keep themselves saved., and they do this because their faith is wrong, which means they are IGNORANT of "God's Righteousness".

 

[Jack]

Dream on, I said no such thing.

So, what is your sacrifice for your sins? Jesus is mine.

You do not realize the dilemma you have created for yourself?

No dilemma whatsoever. Jesus is God of the Bible. The OT proves it!

If you are going to view the Torah as literal and physical, you are required to view and understand all of it that way, not just the parts you pick and choose to read that way, otherwise you make yourself a double-minded hypocrite, and this is especially true concerning the sacrifices. However you cannot possibly do that and adhere to the teachings of Meshiah and also even Paul at the same time.

For example:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8 KJV
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

According to your carnal minded understanding of the Pesakh, (Passover), and because you count the crucifixion of the Meshiah as a literal human sacrifice for your sins, replacing all of your supposed-assumed animal sacrifices in the Torah with the body of Meshiah as your literal human sacrifice in the place of literal animal sacrifices: you therefore cannot do as Paul admonishes the Corinthians to do in the above passage because you do not have the literal blood of Meshiah from the crucifixion in order to apply it to the side posts and lintel of the door of your house.

No blood of the Lamb = Destroyer/Death Angel has free entry into your house.

Your wishing doesn't make it so. I have God / Jesus' MANY promises.

Again, you choose death, and again, you preach a false gospel which is utterly different from the Gospel of Paul, which makes you accursed according to Paul's own words.

So you don't have a sacrifice for your sins? Do you sacrifice animals as Moses COMMANDED?

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, I know this is common sense to 99% of Christians out there, but my Messianic rabbi friend asked me to "provide scriptures" for this issue which was probably solved around AD 50 or so. This came from a wandering conversation starting with Aramaic Primacy and George Lamsa, moving to the heretical implications of Messianic Jew Andrew Gabriel Roth teaching things concerning the Trinity and Christology that would be considered heretical by Nicene Christianity to him trying to put me and a friend on the hot seat for not being Torah observant. I employed Grok to answer a question that has been an open and shut case for nearly two millennia.


"Excellent! I’m genuinely glad the Church Fathers’ Scripture-based case for the Trinity (real, eternal, distinct Persons in one essence) resonates with you, Roth, Horvath, and the wider Messianic Torah community. That removes a major point of friction.
Now to your core difficulty: the claim that the “Biblical Covenant instruction of Torah” has been canceled or is now “Jewish only.” Here is the actual Scriptural evidence (not later tradition or “Hellenism”) that classical Christianity draws from to say the Mosaic Covenant (as a whole system) has been fulfilled and is no longer binding in the same way, while the moral heart of Torah remains perpetual for all believers—Jew and Gentile alike.

1. The New Covenant Makes the Old One “Obsolete”

Hebrews 8:6–13 (quoting Jeremiah 31:31–34) is the clearest text:
“But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better… For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second… In speaking of a ‘new covenant,’ he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.”
This is the author of Hebrews (writing to Jewish believers) saying the Mosaic Covenant itself (the one given at Sinai with all its instructions, sacrifices, priesthood, calendar, etc.) is now obsolete because the New Covenant has arrived in Yeshua. Jeremiah 31 is the same passage Roth and Hebrew Roots love — but the NT writer applies it as fulfillment that changes the administration.

2. Yeshua Fulfills, Does Not Abolish — But Changes Application
Matthew 5:17–18:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”
Traditional reading: “Fulfill” (Greek plēroō) here means to bring to completion / embody perfectly. Yeshua accomplishes what the Torah pointed toward (sacrifices, priesthood, etc.). Once “all is accomplished” (His death, resurrection, ascension), the shadow gives way to the reality (see also Colossians 2:16–17 below).

3. Gentiles Are Explicitly Not Placed Under Full Torah
Acts 15:1–29 (Jerusalem Council) — this is the decisive passage for the “not Jewish only” question:
Judaizers demand Gentile believers be circumcised and keep the whole Law of Moses to be saved.
Apostles and elders (including James and Peter) rule no: only four basic requirements (abstain from idols, sexual immorality, strangled meat, blood).
Reason: “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements” (v. 28).
If the full Torah were still mandatory for all believers, the Spirit-led council would have said so. Instead they treat it as a starting point for table fellowship, not the full Sinai package.

4. Paul’s Clear Statements on Freedom from the Law’s Curse and Guardianship
Romans 6:14: “For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.”
Romans 7:4–6: “You also have died to the law through the body of Christ… so that you may belong to another… Now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.”
Galatians 3:23–25: “Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came… But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.”
Galatians 5:1–4: “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.”
Paul (a Torah-observant Jew himself) is not anti-Torah; he is against returning to it as a system of justification or identity marker that separates Jew and Gentile.

5. The “Dividing Wall” and Shadows Fulfilled
Ephesians 2:14–15:
“For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two…”

Colossians 2:14–17:
“Canceling the record of debt… nailing it to the cross… Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.”

Hebrew Roots / Roth’s Counter-Reading (for fairness)
You and Roth read these same passages differently:
“Fulfill” = properly interpret / uphold in practice (so Torah remains binding).
Acts 15 = minimum requirements for new Gentile believers; they will learn the rest of Moses every Sabbath (v. 21).
Jeremiah 31:33 (“I will put my Torah within them and write it on their hearts”) proves the same Torah continues under the New Covenant.
One Law for native and stranger (Ex 12:49; Num 15:15–16) applies to grafted-in Gentiles (Rom 11).
Both sides are trying to be faithful to Scripture. The difference is in covenant theology: Does the New Covenant renew and internalize the exact same Mosaic Torah, or does it fulfill and transform it so that the ceremonial and civil aspects are no longer binding while the moral law (love God, love neighbor — the heart of Torah) is written on all believers’ hearts by the Spirit?
This is why the early Church (and most historic Christianity) sees the Torah as God’s good instruction that is fulfilled in Christ, not canceled in hatred — and why they never taught it was “Jewish only” in the moral sense. The moral commands remain for everyone; the shadow-system has served its purpose.
If you (or Roth) have specific verses you want me to address or a different way you read these passages, I’m happy to go verse-by-verse. This is all straight from the text. Shalom! "

Torah remains binding on who and in what capacity?

 

[David in NJ]

Why the carnal or natural minded cannot please the Father:

Romans 8:6-8 KJV
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The carnal mind is enmity against Elohim, for it is not subject to the Torah of Elohim, and neither is it possible that it can be subject to the Torah of Elohim: for it sees all things according to the eyes and mind of the flesh and the desires of the flesh, and especially when it comes to eating, and the lust of the belly for animal flesh in sacrifices that Elohim calls abominations.

This applies to the old covenant way of the Sanhedrin, Chief Priests, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, whose handwritten dogmas and decrees were against us, and which were nailed to the stake, and it also applies to modern Messianics who cannot understand the writings of Paul and cling to the old covenant way of the Pharisees instead of walking and living according to the new-renewed Way of understanding the Torah expounded by the Master in the Gospel accounts, in his Testimony, which expounds all we need in order to understand the Torah, Prophets, and Writings in the new supernal way of Meshiah, (the Torah is spiritual, not carnal: the man is carnal, and sold under sin, Rom 7:14).

And the same Rom 8:7 statement also applies to those who uphold the doctrines of the Sanhedrin, Chief Priests, Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, because it makes a wonderful contrast in their minds between the Torah and a blank, supposed new covenant, without any substantive rules, (words like love are relative to the mind of the user), and allows them to twist the words of Paul into abolishing the Torah for them in their own hearts and carnal minds. Neither can they walk in Meshiah pleasing to the Father because, rejecting His Word, the Torah, they are clearly walking in enmity against Elohim and are not capable of being subject to His Word, the Torah. They choose the Pharisee way of interpreting the Torah only so that they can reject the Torah as obsolete: most of mainstream Christianity is in this group.

ADDING to the FINISHED Work of CHRIST is SIN

The purpose of Torah is to bring us to CHRIST

The Purpose of CHRIST is to SAVE us from the Mosaic law.

Adding the Mosaic law to Salvation by Grace thru Faith in CHRIST is SIN = Disobeying Torah

 

[Jack]

The New Covenant given to us by the Jesus' Blood is the road to the Kingdom of Heaven!

Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

 

[Jack]

The Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts teaches me how to walk in the Torah pleasing unto the Father. Paul his servant and apostle also does the same, for he teaches the commandments of the Master, as he says. In fact he informs me that the Torah is spiritual, and I believe him, (Rom 7:14a). Those who do not believe Paul already have their erroneous natural minded interpretations of the Torah from the Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes, which they choose to believe over and above the Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts. And being in an even worse state than the Pharisees, they choose those interpretations not to try to fulfill them, but rather in order to have an excuse to abolish the Torah. The natural mind cannot please Elohim because it cannot be subject to His Torah: (re: Rom 8:4-8), for it sees all things of the scripture according to the flesh, the carnal, and the natural world.

So, how many have you executed according to Torah COMMANDS? Gays? Weekend workers? Family? Nobody maybe?

 

[David in NJ]

Still don't know anyone who obeys Torah? Neither do I. Don't preach it until YOU obey it!

He cannot obey Torah, for no one has but One = and that One is CHRIST