Why do alot of Christian denominations have a problem with looking into the Past for the return of Christ?

[MatthewG]

Yes, Jesus did come back, and has been with us in the form of His Holy Spirit since Pentecost, which is the 2nd of the three of His manifestations. His 3rd manifestation in Immortality from heaven, has not taken place yet.
1. In the flesh.
2. By His Holy Spirit.
3. From heaven in flaming fire, in His Immortality.

Again… still not addressing my statement. I purposely stand against that Jesus did not come back to rescue his bride as he promised and the aposltes promised to it would happen.

That means the Bible in itself is unreliable.

What is true? Jesus and promise to come back, to rescue his bride? Yes, its very true, its seen in the narrative of the Gospel, and the other letters written.

So I do not follow after the people who say “Jesus is still coming back.”

If youre not gonna address this your better off just going on your way, @Earburner. Cause you wont burn my own ear telling me Jesus didnt come to save his bride already, sir.

 

[MatthewG]

While some may think Jesus became the holy spirit, that is not true.

The Holy Spirit of God is of Yahava, the Spirit of Christ is from Christ, while they are synonymous, they are not the same. One is from God, and the other is of Christ. Christ spirit within ys helps to do the good works of God, and the Holy spirit is there to remind us when we mess up, but also calling to all to comes to Yeshua.

 

[Earburner]

Again… still not addressing my statement. I purposely stand against that Jesus did not come back to rescue his bride as he promised and the aposltes promised to it would happen.

That means the Bible in itself is unreliable.

What is true? Jesus and promise to come back, to rescue his bride? Yes, its very true, its seen in the narrative of the Gospel, and the other letters written.

So I do not follow after the people who say “Jesus is still coming back.”

If youre not gonna address this your better off just going on your way, @Earburner. Cause you wont burn my own ear telling me Jesus didnt come to save his bride already, sir.

Did the repentant thief on the cross get spiritually rescued by Jesus.
Yes, but he is asleep in Jesus in Paradise, along with all those who have also died in faith. They all are still waiting to be made into the Immortal likeness of Jesus, upon His Glorious return.

 

[MatthewG]

Did the repentant thief on the cross get spiritually rescued by Jesus.
Yes, but he is asleep in Jesus in Paradise, along with all those who have also died in faith. They all are still waiting to be made into the Immortal likeness of Jesus, upon His Glorious return.

I dont believe that, you understand I believe hell is over with and all those who were in hell were dumped out of it.

Im not changing my stance based on what you believe which you can totally share.

Age doesnt mean much to me. Youre still ignoring the people who were told to watch, and wait.

 

[Earburner]

While some may think Jesus became the holy spirit, that is not true.

The Holy Spirit of God is of Yahava, the Spirit of Christ is from Christ, while they are synonymous, they are not the same. One is from God, and the other is of Christ. Christ spirit within ys helps to do the good works of God, and the Holy spirit is there to remind us when we mess up, but also calling to all to comes to Yeshua.

I hear you! But you are overlooking one other facet of Christ's sacrifice for sin and death.
Not only did He sacrifice Himself for us, but also for the sake of God the Father Himself, who is a Spirit only.
The deepest desire and longsuffering of God the Father, was to dwell within the EARTHen vessels of His creation of man.
Unfortunately, if He ever tried to dwell within us BY HIMSELF, we would be killed instantly.
Hence the reasoning between God the Father and the Son, for THEIR plan of salvation for us, before the world began.

If you understand the veil in the Jewish Temple, then you know that it was absolutely necessary to have between God who would visit them in the compartment of the Holy of Holies.
However, now that the temple building and the ordinances thereof are forever done away with, now we can understand by God's Holy Spirit, of what Heb. 10:14-21 is actually saying.
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

In order for God the Father to permanently dwell within us, He first had to dwell within the sin-less MORTAL body of Jesus (God the Son), who is the FIRSTborn from the dead, being the very FIRST resurrection INTO a NEW creature [creation].

John 14:23 clearly describes how it is that they BOTH abide and dwell within all who ARE born again of God's Holy Spirit, who is One with God the Son, and he with Him.
Together, They ARE Holy Spirit.
John 14
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

When we "open the door" of His knocking, and invite Jesus into our life, God the Father, who is NOW in Jesus, being that of his NEW and Immortal EARTHen body, of Holy Spirit, God the Father COMES WITH HIM.
Rev. 3:20.

 

[MatthewG]

I hear you! But you are overlooking one other facet of Christ's sacrifice for sin and death.
Not only did He sacrifice Himself for us, but also for the sake of God the Father Himself, who is a Spirit only.
The deepest desire and longsuffering of God the Father, was dwell within the EARTHen vessels of His creation of man.
Unfortunately, if He ever tried to dwell within us BY HIMSELF, we would be killed instantly.
Hence the reasoning between God the Father and the Son, for THEIR plan of salvation for us, before the world began.

If you understand the veil in the Jewish Temple, then you know that it was absolutely necessary to have between God who would visit them in the compartment of the Holy of Holies.
However, now that the temple building and the ordinances thereof are forever done away with, now we can understand by God's Holy Spirit, of what Heb. 10:14-21 is actually saying.
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

In order for God the Father to permanently dwell within us, He first had to dwell within the MORTAL body of Jesus (God the Son), who is the FIRSTborn from the dead, being the very FIRST resurrection INTO a NEW creature [creation].

John 14:23 clearly describes how it is that they BOTH abide and dwell within all who ARE born again of God's Holy Spirit, who is One with God the Son, and he with Him.
Together, They ARE Holy Spirit.
John 14
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

When we "open the door" of His knocking, and invite Jesus into our life, God the Father, who is NOW in Jesus, being that of his NEW and Immortal EARTHen body, of Holy Spirit, God the Father COMES WITH HIM.
Rev. 3:20.

Bro stop. You continue to ignore the first century bride. I dont want anything to do with your beliefs. You can keep them, i dont have to accept them as 100% truth.

I rather you be honest and just say you dont care about those people who were promised to be gotten.

You ignoring this makes it seem like you do not care.

Jesus did not become the holy spirit of God. The holy spirit of God and the spirit of Christ resides in a believer: i know this already but they arent the same, to me.

 

[Earburner]

Bro stop. You continue to ignore the first century bride. I dont want anything to do with your beliefs. You can keep them, i dont have to accept them as 100% truth.

I rather you be honest and just say you dont care about those people who were promised to be gotten.

You ignoring this makes it seem like you do not care.

Jesus did not become the holy spirit of God. The holy spirit of God and the spirit of Christ resides in a believer: i know this already but they arent the same, to me.

Could it be that you are not being clear about who the Bride is upto 100 AD. What evidence do you show that Jesus secured His Bride then?
If then they are the Bride of Christ upto 100 years from Jesus' resurrection, who are we, only the "guests"??

 

[MatthewG]

Could it be that you are not being clear about who the Bride is upto 100 AD. What evidence do you show that Jesus secured His Bride then?
If then they are the Bride of Christ upto 100 years from Jesus' resurrection, who are we, only the "guests"??

The bride would the be one spoken of to begotten as the bride of Christ within a generation, who would be the pure, blamless, spotless bride.

”Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands also ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless, as for you individually, each husband is to love his own wife the same as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.“
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5‬:‭22‬-‭29‬, ‭31‬-‭33‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 5:22-33 Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the c | New American Standard Bible -

Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the c

bible.com

Paul is referencing the church he is governing over, which to me would be the Church, the bride spoken about in the gospel of Christ. Paul, and all the letters involving the prophets and the apostles would always be about to the Jew first, then to the gentile.

While all people are able to become a body member of Christ at anytime when they have a relationship with God. However in that day, you can not negotiate, that Revelation, doesnt also play into affect with the effects of all these other letters out there, including the end of days, the last time, and eschatological language, to some degree or another, along side the old testament.

Jesus was said to come swiftly. While people say John wrote in 90Ad, i disagree with them and believe he wrote before the destruction of Jerusalem, in 68-69Ad and the wrath spoken of in the old testament was let out as promised by God himself for their idolatry and backsliding.

 

[Earburner]

The bride would the be one spoken of to begotten as the bride of Christ within a generation, who would be the pure, blamless, spotless bride.

”Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands also ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless, as for you individually, each husband is to love his own wife the same as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.“
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5‬:‭22‬-‭29‬, ‭31‬-‭33‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 5:22-33 Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the c | New American Standard Bible -

Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the c

bible.com

Paul is referencing the church he is governing over, which to me would be the Church, the bride spoken about in the gospel of Christ. Paul, and all the letters involving the prophets and the apostles would always be about to the Jew first, then to the gentile.

While all people are able to become a body member of Christ at anytime when they have a relationship with God. However in that day, you can not negotiate, that Revelation, doesnt also play into affect with the effects of all these other letters out there, including the end of days, the last time, and eschatological language, to some degree or another, along side the old testament.

Jesus was said to come swiftly. While people say John wrote in 90Ad, i disagree with them and believe he wrote before the destruction of Jerusalem, in 68-69Ad and the wrath spoken of in the old testament was let out as promised by God himself for their idolatry and backsliding.

Since Pentecost we all have been in the Age of God's Grace through faith in the shed blood of Christ. That symbolic period of a thousand years is open ended, having no set date by God Himself for it's end.
However, when men no longer repent towards Him, through faith in Jesus, He alone shall end His Age of Grace.
It will be at that time "WHEN" Jesus shall come, being revealed from Heaven, with His mighty angels, in flaming fire.....
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

 

[MatthewG]

Since Pentecost we all have been in the Age of God's Grace through faith in the shed blood of Christ. That symbolic period of a thousand years is open ended, having no set date by God Himself for it's end.
However, when men no longer repent towards Him, through faith in Jesus, He alone shall end His Age of Grace.
It will be at that time "WHEN" Jesus shall come, being revealed from Heaven, with His mighty angels, in flaming fire.....
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

There was an end to Israel. That was the Age that ended and no longer is around, and since that time, the World has been reconciled to God through Christ. Thank you for sharing your beliefs, with me. I do not accept them as something that I have to obey, or that they have any merit in which effects the faith that is had in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Everyone is going to die one day or another, you'll see Jesus, and so will many others, due to Jesus promise to resurrect all people. Now there is the Heavenly Kingdom and those who are outside of it.

However, there was a literal "FLAMING FIRE" upon Israel when all the tribes were killed, 1,000,000 dead, and those who were faithful, seen Jesus and were translated into heaven. Yahava was just in his judgement for having all of these people taken over by the Romans, in my understanding and view, and that is why I speak about it the way I do, in regard and respect to the First centruy bride who was told, to wait, watch, and seek faithfully God, and that the Lord Jesus Christ would rescue them out of the great tribulation, and judgement would be cast upon Israel, and I believe faithfully it occrued in 70AD.

Hope you understand my view as well, cause it's only fair for one to share if they are so willingly to, @Earburner. It's not about winning a debate.

 

[Earburner]

There is no such scripture that says this “world will end.” There are end to ages, but not the world. Therefore I disagree with you EG. People have to be born here and continue to find the light in the darkness of the world.

MattewG.,
I happened to see this while scanning your thread, and your comment about this world/planet not having an end.
At sometime in your studies in the NT scriptures, surely you must have read
2 Peter 3
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall MELT with fervent heat?

[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for NEW HEAVENS and A NEW EARTH, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

In your estimation, what condition will the heavens (plural) and the elements (this earth) be in, soon after the Day of the Lord?

 

[MatthewG]

MattewG.,
I happened to see this while scanning your thread, and your comment about this world/planet not having an end.
At sometime in your studies in the NT scriptures, surely you must have read
2 Peter 3
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall MELT with fervent heat?

[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for NEW HEAVENS and A NEW EARTH, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

In your estimation, what condition will the heavens (plural) and the elements (this earth) be in, soon after the Day of the Lord?

One can see it as you, or the wiping out of Gods wrath through his nation of Israel which he chose to do what he wanted to do with, despite whether they were of faith or not of faith. Those who wanted to escape the end of the world (age) they knew, was to watch, wait and see.

The world is not going to end, your life will. If this world stops existing, that means that no one is left to come into the Kingdom of Heaven...

Therefore hope you understand the whole "Ending of the world" as you have made it out to be, can be a bit to much, and should be condensed in to understanding, that it was Jerusalem, which going to be burned down as, you know, the temple melted down, and during those times, the people in israel, who were cut off from food and famine, they started eating each other, in the history.


Literally.. a million people died. All up in fire, left and right, and the temple melted down, there is no remains except people who claim the wailing wall has any merit, which I do not believe it does, and people choose to willfully believe what they will, and they can also understand the things they they read to be one thing or another, which is all fine.


There are people who downplay a million death as being nothing compared to someone or so and so else, the thing about it, is that this tribulation was going to be once and for one time and then never again. It doesn't effect me anymore, as I had my wonders about the last of times, and things, and found out, that it was the age of the old covenant which had been fulfilled and done away in Jesus, and he rescued his bride, as promise, and God used the roman army to take out Jerusalem, as judgement for killing the Son of God, within 40 years of Jesus promise of when it was to come about.

 

[MatthewG]

I can also see the scripture here:

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall MELT with fervent heat?


When it comes down to this verse, I can see it as DEATH. I can also see it meriting to dying to the Flesh. And of course, the fire and expansive flames, of God's chosen nation, being put to death, being thrown in Ghenna, and laying down dead in the street which the blood of Christ was on their hands and childrens hands. When Jesus would be then appearing, within a short period of time according to Revelation.

Matthew 27:25 And all the people yelled back, “We will take responsibility for his death—we and our children!”

 

[Earburner]

I can also see the scripture here:

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall MELT with fervent heat?


When it comes down to this verse, I can see it as DEATH. I can also see it meriting to dying to the Flesh. And of course, the fire and expansive flames, of God's chosen nation, being put to death, being thrown in Ghenna, and laying down dead in the street which the blood of Christ was on their hands and childrens hands. When Jesus would be then appearing, within a short period of time according to Revelation.

Matthew 27:25 And all the people yelled back, “We will take responsibility for his death—we and our children!”

Ok, I understand you see that death is the end of THIS world/planet and the heavens for every person, at the time of their own death. I can understand that, but I am not saying I can agree with it.

Not for the sake of your form of belief do I disagree, but rather to name a few, the scriptures of 1 Thes. 4:13-18; 2 Thes. 1:7-10, 1 Cor. 15:50-55. All of that vividly reveals what shall take place WHEN the last trump[et] is sounded, as written in 1 Thes 4:16; Rev. 10:5-7. It will be the end of God's Grace and longsuffering through Jesus Christ.

There is no recording anywhere that such vivid events have already taken place.
However to the end of Israel as being God's chosen people, I do agree. That did take place in 70AD., of which is another topic that "church-ianity" has misunderstood and misconstrued, concerning the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24-27.

 

[MatthewG]

Ok, I understand you see that death is the end of THIS world/planet and the heavens for every person, at the time of their own death. I can understand that, but I am not saying I can agree with it.

Not for the sake of your form of belief do I disagree, but rather to name a few, the scriptures of 1 Thes. 4:13-18; 2 Thes. 1:7-10, 1 Cor. 15:50-55. All of that vividly reveals what shall take place WHEN the last trump[et] is sounded, as written in 1 Thes 4:16; Rev. 10:5-7. It will be the end of God's Grace and longsuffering through Jesus Christ.

There is no recording anywhere that such vivid events have already taken place.
However to the end of Israel as being God's chosen people, I do agree. That did take place in 70AD., of which is another topic that "church-ianity" has misunderstood and misconstrued, concerning the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24-27.

I believe there is ample amount of evidence historically for the destruction of Jerusalem. There is just no record of anyone saying "Jesus came," that is why it is predicated on faith, he did not fail.

While you may not have any other rebuttal than the scriptures that were written to a certain people that is fine, and I do not desire to go one by one with you on them.

The people in Thessalonica are being written to, the Seven Churches of Asia Minor, the people with the 1st letter from Cornith. All of these points matter at least to me they do. Cause I have no need in having to witness Jesus come. Simple as that. I wouldn't disqualify him as a failure, but as a victor who did as he promised to do, and the apostles foretold of his coming. I can not discount the narrative.

I personally believe that God's grace extends unto the Heavenly Realm, as it is foretold there are those who are outside the city gates, and those are who are going into the city gates. With the resurrection of those condemned, and with the resurrection of those of life.

All there is to me is to serve God until your dying day, or do not.

 

[David in NJ]

It seems to me as though Jesus promised to come back within a generation which would witness the things he promised to foretell to his chosen disciples, however people decide to make Revelation for us today? Now please do not get me wrong, there are many things within the bible to investigate and to go through, the biggest problem mainly I suppose comes with if Jesus already came back now what? What is there left to do but for Yahava to decide if one will allow him to work in their life, all while having faith that Yeshua has indeed overcame all things which he promised he would end up taking care of, such as death, satan, the beast, the false prophet, hades, and of course sin once and for all on the cross. Some believe that this measure doesn't measure out to those who do not have faith - but Yahava has faith, therefore if Yahava has faith, and that what Jesus said was true all would be raised either to resurrection of life, or condemnation, he is unable to get that all with the heavenly kingdom being established and those who die from this life to that life, are resurrected and placed where they belong with God or without God.

Why do people have such a problem with this? Is due to their outlook on seeing all these things unfold in our generation today, when it was for a generation of a time that would be so great no other time would compare to what would come about when Yeshua would return and was seen by those of faith and taken and establishing the heavenly kingdom above?

Overall I believe by faith Jesus had came and taken his bride, - its just a subjective take compared to what most denominations preach today.

JESUS did return to the Disciples after His Resurrection.

His Second Coming cannot be in the 'Past' because HE said so = Matthew ch23 & ch24 and OT Prophecy/Daniel

 

[David in NJ]

There are some who think the second coming has already occurred. And we are now living in the tribulation years that last according to God's timeline,not our Gregorian calendar.

I think that would explain how the world has fallen exponentially since the ascension.

According to God's Word = it is IMPOSSIBLE that the LORD'S Second Coming has already occurred.

 

[BlessedPeace]

According to God's Word = it is IMPOSSIBLE that the LORD'S Second Coming has already occurred.

Interesting. Please provide the scriptures you are referring to.

 

[David in NJ]

Interesting. Please provide the scriptures you are referring to.

i have to step out now.

Can you please read 1st & 2nd Thessalonians and then when i return i will be glad to share with you.

 

[Earburner]

I believe there is ample amount of evidence historically for the destruction of Jerusalem. There is just no record of anyone saying "Jesus came," that is why it is predicated on faith, he did not fail.

Surely you have studied the historical account of Flavius Josephus, about the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70 AD. by the Romans.
Although Josephus knew of the Messiah Jesus historically, he never mentioned anything about a visible revealing from heaven, of the return of Jesus Christ in or around 70 AD. ("Antiquities of the Jews"- book 18, ch. 3, paragraph 3.)

Though most people at the time of 70AD had no idea about millions of people living in North America, China etc., and those of the southern hemisphere, being South America, South Africa, Austrailia, New Zealand etc., GOD DID!
To them, God has sent thousands of "missionaries" declaring the gospel of Jesus Christ.

However, as slow in time as that has been, "knowledge shall be increased", as prophesied in Daniel 12:4.
So then, right now in 2024 AD, even you and I are at this moment STILL PREACHING to all the world, the gospel of Jesus Christ, via the advancement in knowledge through "electronic communications" ever since the 1800s, thus fulfilling Jesus' words:
Mat. 24
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat. 23
[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord [aka "missionaries"].