Why do so many Christains treat unbelievers as the enemy of God?

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OzSpen

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Jer 3:15

and I couldn't pass this up either,

Matthew 1:19 & 20 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost".

if the Holy Ghost is the one who conceived the child, is he not the Father of the child?. I say yes. and if he's the Father who is this other person who you call Father? please answer.

You have overlooked one crucial doctrine, the teaching on the God the Son.

Your answer here refers to the conception of the human Jesus. The Son of God has always existed. Jesus, the Son in flesh, was only on earth for about 30 years to provide salvation for all human beings because of his death and resurrection - if they accept his offer of salvation.

See John 17:5, 24 (NIV), 'And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.... Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world'.

See the article, 'What is the doctrine of eternal Sonship and is it biblical?' (GotQuestions)

Oz
 

OzSpen

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101G,

I asked: 'Where do we find biblical explanations for the job description and character traits of a pastor (as compared with a bishop or elder)?'

Your response was Jer 3:15, which reads, 'Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding' (NIV).

This verse is addressed to shepherds of Israel, not NT shepherds (pastors) of the church. You have made one OT role model apply to something that does not apply to. We have no biblical instruction, to my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong), that the OT shepherd job description flowed across to the NT pastoral role.

Oz
 

101G

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You have overlooked one crucial doctrine, the teaching on the God the Son.
no, you have overlooked. because that the son always existed. then why call this other person Father?. scripture, 2 Corinthians 1:3 "Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort". good you said, "our answer here refers to the conception of the human Jesus". now OzSpen who is the fathe of the Lord Jesus Christ, the human man. or, are you saying that the bible is not correct?. .... (smile) so who is the father of this as you say human Jesus.
 

101G

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You have overlooked one crucial doctrine, the teaching on the God the Son.
no, you have overlooked. because that the son always existed. the why call this other person Father?. scripture, 2 Corinthians 1:3 "Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort". now OzSpen who is the fathe of the Lord Jesus Christ. or, are you saying that the bible is not correct?. .... (smile)
 

101G

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This verse is addressed to shepherds of Israel, not NT shepherds (pastors) of the church. You have made one OT role model apply to something that does not apply to. We have no biblical instruction, to my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong), that the OT shepherd job description flowed across to the NT pastoral role.
the role is in the new testament, scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit". a word of wisdom is understanding. hence knowledge and understanding, just as jer 3:15 states.
 

BreadOfLife

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See, now you’re stuck, I can read an injured dog quickly. When you said, “ Paul NEVER said that a man MUST be married in order to be a Bishop.” that was a dead give away of saying, I don’t know how to answer this. I’m not not about arguing, I give the answer. If you would have read chapter 2 the narrative would have told you who the apostle was addressing. Any married man who desire the work. He must be the husband of one wife, not two or three but one. How do we know this?, verse 4 “One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity”. are the lights coming on by now. his children, My God how long will one not understand.
Understand breadof…. the flow of conservation. Thew apostle was talking with married men in chapter 2, and the conservation continue into chapter 3. how do we know this? answer notice the conjunction “THEN” in verse 2. 1 Timothy 3:1 "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;”. understand, “then” is the Greek word here, G3767 οὖν oun (oun') conj. 1. a conjunction indicating a responsive progression of actions or events, whether the response is direct, immediate or delayed.
2. (directly) accordingly.
3. (progressively) in due course.
4. (of continuation or question) so then (as used in the vernacular English).
5. (of a longer continuation) so (as used in the vernacular English).
6. (as a distinct or distant conjunction) now then.
7. (of a conclusive response) well then (as is obvious...).
[apparently a primary word]
KJV: and (so, truly), but, now (then), so (likewise then), then, therefore, verily, wherefore
Compare: G1352, G2596, G5106

See definition #1. the conservation was interrupted in verse 1, “This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work”. the true saying is for everyone, (THAT’S WHY IT’S A TRUE SAYING). verse 2 starts the conversation back with “THEN, listen, verse 2 “A bishop then” the THEN do just what it meant to do, G3767 οὖν oun (oun') conj. 1. a conjunction indicating a responsive progression of actions or events, whether the response is direct, immediate or delayed. The delay was in verse 1, with a true saying for all men.

My God how hard is it for one to learn.

I suggest you close your bible, because it's doing you no good.
This last line of your post is proof positive that you shouldn't be pretending to represent God or His Word.
God would never tell somebody NOT to immerse himself in His Word. Only Satan would want that.

As for the rest of your post - it's linguistically, Scripturally and historically bankrupt.
Not only have a proven the etymology of the word "Bishop" - I have proven that Paul recommended celibacy for Church hierarchy.

Your arguments have all been obliterated but, STILL you persist in desperation. Just admit that you're wrong and move on.
Everybody else seems to have done just that . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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ANOTHER LIE, for the apostle said this, 1 Corinthians 7:35 "And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction".

beradof.... that's another lie. now I have prove to you without a doubt a women can be a bishop. two Paul was speaking to the married. and exposed the not married excuse.

now you see why I'm anti-catholic DOCTRINE. man made traditions. the scriptures are true, Mark 7:9 "And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition".
Soooo - now you're down to referring to Sacred Scripture as "LIES"??
How far will you sink??

Regarding celibacy - Paul says it plainly:
1 Cor. 7:32-34
I should like you to be free of anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord.
But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife,and he is divided.


You anti-Trinitarian, pseudo-Christian sects HAVE to reject Scripture in order to fit your perverted doctrines of men. You aren't even recognized by most of your Protestant brethren as being Christian. At least a true Protestant believes in the God of the Bible.

Let me guess:
Jehovah's Witness?
Oneness Pentecostal?
Some other man-made cult from the last 50-100 years??
 

OzSpen

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no, you have overlooked. because that the son always existed. then why call this other person Father?. scripture, 2 Corinthians 1:3 "Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort". good you said, "our answer here refers to the conception of the human Jesus". now OzSpen who is the fathe of the Lord Jesus Christ, the human man. or, are you saying that the bible is not correct?. .... (smile) so who is the father of this as you say human Jesus.

101G,

Did you notice what you did? You did not address what I wrote:

Your answer here refers to the conception of the human Jesus. The Son of God has always existed. Jesus, the Son in flesh, was only on earth for about 30 years to provide salvation for all human beings because of his death and resurrection - if they accept his offer of salvation.

See John 17:5, 24 (NIV), 'And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.... Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world'.

Instead of dealing with the eternal God, the Son, and the human Jesus Christ on earth who was crucified and raised, you avoid dealing with the Scriptures I provided. You go to 2 Cor 1:3 (ESV), 'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort'.

This is easily explained. In the Greek there is no definite article before both nouns, 'the God and the Father'. Instead, it is 'the God and Father'. The Greek used this construction to join two ideas into a unity. So the genitive 'of our Lord Jesus Christ' obviously belongs to God as much as to Father. That's basis Greek grammar.

Greek commentator, R C H Lenski, explains:

Jesus himself calls God his God in Matt. 27:46; John 20:17. Eph 1:17 says in so many words: "the God of our Lord Jesus Christ." For Jesus in his human nature God is his God, and for Jesus in his deity God is his Father; his God since the incarnation, his Father from all eternity. But let us not fail to note "our Lord," which connects us with Christ and through him with God (Lenski 1937/1963:814-815).
See the article, 'If Jesus is God, why did he call God "My God"' (GotQuestions).

Oz

Works consulted
Lenski, R C H 1937. Commentary on the New Testament: The Interpretation of St. Paul’s First and Second Epistles to the Corinthians. Peabody, Mass: Hendrickson Publishers (1937 and 1963 by Augsburg Publishing House).
 

101G

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Did you notice what you did? You did not address what I wrote:
@OzSpen GINOLJC. let's make it plain. #1. the eternal Jesus the Spirit have no "FATHER". #2. the human like man of flesh that the eternal shared himself in have a Father, the Holy Spirit. knowing that your trinity is in ERROR. because your doctrine states that the Father is not the Holy Spirit and vice versa. but there is no Father of the eternal Spirit, only the flesh and that's the Holy Spirit, so? who is this other person you calls father?, NOT THERE

Eternal Spirit, NO "FATHER"
Flesh and bone indwell by the shared Spirit, the "Holy Spirit" who is the Father of it.
see your ERROR now?.
 

101G

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Jesus himself calls God his God in Matt. 27:46; John 20:17. Eph 1:17 says in so many words: "the God of our Lord Jesus Christ." For Jesus in his human nature God is his God, and for Jesus in his deity God is his Father; his God since the incarnation, his Father from all eternity. But let us not fail to note "our Lord," which connects us with Christ and through him with God (Lenski 1937/1963:814-815).
OzSpen I'm glad you said this, let's eliminate this "MY GOD" thing once in for all. scripture, Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name".
ok OZ, the Lord jesus said, "I will write upon him the name of my God". who is he speaking of here? answer HIMSELF, listen "I will write upon him my new name". see it, the MY is possession, and as you tried to explain, "the genitive 'of our Lord Jesus Christ' obviously belongs to God as much as to Father". that's a LIE. "OF" translates the genitive case of nouns, Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction, my source Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.
just what do this means? the Lord jesus Christ is objective, the Spirit is subjective, meaning that the body "OF" flesh and blood belongs to the Spirit, and the Nature "OF" the Spirit belongs to that Flesh and blood man.
conclusion, MY is possession. and the preposition "of" translate that possession of the two. that's the reason why Zechariah 13:7 states, "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones".
that word "FELLOW" here is the Hebrew word,
H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.

see definition #2. concretely, a kindred man, the KINSMAN REDEEMER. to make it simple, GOD "shared IN FLESH AS A MAN just as Philippians 2:6 & 7 states. "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". (this is the Subjective, "OF" the Lord Jesus Christ)) Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men"(this is the Objective "OF" the Spirit).

so when the Lord Jesus says MY "GOD" he's saying MY SPIRIT". and when the SPIRIT says MY "SON" he;s saying MY FLESH.

thanks there wizard "OF" Oz. this is why, and how, I know this, because diversity Oneness started with the prepositions "of".

so Oz you have two Gods, and that polytheistic. you think Unitarian ..... (smile), which is a false doctrine. you violate scripture, Deuteronomy 5:7 "Thou shalt have none other gods before me". and let's get the "God" also. Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any". if almighty God don't know any why should you?.

this is what destroyed you Oz, when you said, "Jesus himself calls God his God in Matt. 27:46; John 20:17. Eph 1:17 says in so many words", LOL....LOL, his God is HIM, diversified/shared in flesh.. How ignorant are you.

an open challenge to any who can prove what I have posted to be false. the floor is open.
 

OzSpen

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@OzSpen GINOLJC. let's make it plain. #1. the eternal Jesus the Spirit have no "FATHER". #2. the human like man of flesh that the eternal shared himself in have a Father, the Holy Spirit. knowing that your trinity is in ERROR. because your doctrine states that the Father is not the Holy Spirit and vice versa. but there is no Father of the eternal Spirit, only the flesh and that's the Holy Spirit, so? who is this other person you calls father?, NOT THERE

Eternal Spirit, NO "FATHER"
Flesh and bone indwell by the shared Spirit, the "Holy Spirit" who is the Father of it.
see your ERROR now?.

I provided Scripture to support the 3 persons in the One Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

You have provided NO Scripture to support your unorthodox theology.

Your post should be in the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum.

Oz
 

101G

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I provided Scripture to support the 3 persons in the One Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

You have provided NO Scripture to support your unorthodox theology.

Your post should be in the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum.
Nada, you proved NOTHING, but you worship two or more Gods.

well you did prove something, the doctrine of "diversified Oneness" is correct ;).

Now read my post #170 again and prove me wrong...... (smile). else:(
 

OzSpen

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Nada, you proved NOTHING, but you worship two or more Gods.

well you did prove something, the doctrine of "diversified Oneness" is correct ;).

Now read my post #170 again and prove me wrong...... (smile). else:(

So which Oneness/unitarian group do you belong to?

You want me to read your post #170. It is so incoherent, I gave up after reading half of it.

Please learn to write in straight forward language that is easily understood. Using correct punctuation also would be a great help.
 

101G

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Your post should be in the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum.
now why would you want to do such a thing? did you not read this topic heading? "Why do so many Christains treat unbelievers as the enemy of God?". scripture, Galatians 4:16 "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?". many be the enemy might be in you. just think for a second, could the doctrine you believe in could be in ERROR. could what you believe in be false. what if, I'm correct and you're in error. so why AM I your enemy?.... maybe because I tell the truth?. think about it.

in the name of the Lord Jesus, be blessed. and may he open your eyes.
 

101G

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So which Oneness/unitarian group do you belong to?
neither, I'm a diversified oneness. big difference. look I know my grammar is not that good compared to your highly educated style. but you being so highly educate, you should with your superior education reason on my level and help the low educated out by examining his work and improve and correct it. it this not what the better man do?.
 

101G

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to my friend OzSpen. have you studied my post #170? if you need some help, just ask, don't be embarrassed to ask. also, have you made any progress on our sister Phebe, the first Bishop of Rome. hey, we have the real father's letters, the book of Romans.... :cool:. I have much information on her, just ask... :eek:. oh yes did you get the knowledge on the BIBLICAL Pastor, not any man made traditions, but according to the bible, just ask, see how the better man do....... (smile).
 

Wormwood

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101G,

I also read your post #170, and I have to agree with Oz that it makes little sense. I want to understand your position, but I am failing to. I'd like to contribute to the conversation, but dont really know how to address what is being said.
 
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The New Testament witness of Christ reaches out to non-believers. It is only harsh and judgmental on those who claim to be believers and dispute Christ's witness and the word of God.
ie 1 Cor 5, Matt 8, 23, Romans 1-2

The problem for the church in the west is that is has assumed secular liberal diversity and tolerance would allow it to continue to state and vote for Judeo-Christian beliefs. Those beliefs however have been hated and rejected as discriminatory and hateful. At the same time, sinful worldly beliefs have been allowed to flourish in the church and are now taking over, siding with the world against true believers.
 
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Sword

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My guess to this question is a certain amount of pride fueled by insecurity-- nobody wants to be "wrong". But that applies to all, converted or unconverted so when a comment is taken personally, we all (who have various levels of this) have to remember to act civil.

It can happen both ways. Unconverted can push the buttons of the converted until they lash back (but as I said they should refrain). Likewise, the converted may assume the unconverted are the way they are as a form of inferiority so there's a Pharisee type attitude.

I have noticed, and I think I can be objective here, a more militant attitude on the side of unbelievers, esp. atheists. It seems the argument is more emotional and agenda driven these days. I often quip, where are the stereotypical old fashioned atheists who wore round glasses, read a lot of science books and humbly denied God based on supposed evidence they had (or I should say lack thereof) but understood if someone else believed? They once had a logical conversation instead of a chip to wear.

And its the same with believers. Christian people seemed more bible-versed and educated. The believers I grew up with more kind and did not seem to want to treat anyone poorly. There's still some churches around that are this way, but in this generation it seems more of a shell of what was once great-- I sense a sort of apostasy. As the bible says, "everyone did what was right in their own eyes".

Maybe I'm romanticizing the past days somewhat, but it does seem that pride, hate, fear and insecurity is growing across the whole spectrum of society.
Woman asked the minister to pray for her husband as he was always pushing her buttons.
Minister said I think we need to pray for you. She says no its him. He said we need to pray for you to become buttonless.
 
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aspen

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Many Christian believe it is their job to unmask every Christian they meet and then, label them enemies of God, before dismissing them outright