Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?

[St. SteVen]

I think that some people speak highly of the scriptures because they live it in their lives. These are not the ones who idolize it.

Why would you think that those who (claim) to live their lives by scripture are immune to idolizing it?
I would think they are MORE suspect, not less.

I've been accused of idolizing the scriptures by some. But I think that stemmed from people on the fence who's conscience bugs them about some sin in their life, which they dont want to give up, so take offense at the scriptures and he who brought this truth to their attention.

There it is. If someone disagrees with your personal views on scripture "they must have sin in their lives."
I've heard that one before. (we all have, I suppose)

Highly likely I think. I do not idolize the word of God, but I do think that they it is a very special book which should not be underestimated.

Should not be underestimated. Agree.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
There you go. You are preaching Eternal INsecurity.

Now that's a cute sounding cliche but it isnt biblical in the least. "Eternal" insecurity? Do you realize what you have implied? Not biblical in the least.

Not biblical? - LOL
Neither is the word "Trinity". Do you reject that idea out of hand?

Any thinking person should be able to follow what I am saying.

The derogatory term OSAS stands for Once Saved Always Saved.
The anti-OSAS position dismisses Eternal Security.
The idea that one can forfeit their salvation through neglect, or an intentional act.
Therefore the anti-OSAS position amounts to the position of Eternal INsecurity.

Can you follow that?

/

 

[MA2444]

Why would you think that those who (claim) to live their lives by scripture are immune to idolizing it?
I would think they are MORE suspect, not less.

There it is. If someone disagrees with your personal views on scripture "they must have sin in their lives."
I've heard that one before. (we all have, I suppose)

I didn't say that they are immune to idolizing the Bible. There's so much more unbelief and deception in the world that, it happens. But if you think about it, those words are in the Bible because they were spoken by God at some time in earths past. The Lord's words will not come back to Him void. The Lord's words are able to span the centuries to come to you just as valid and powerful that they were when He first spoke them. Now this is not the Bible per se but it is the words of the Lord. Those who have overdosed themselves (by worldly standards) on the scriptures reach new plateau's of the knowledge of our Lord, that it becomes clear that...there is power in the Name of Jesus, there is power in the words of Jesus...that never readers or sometimes readers never acheive.

Not at all! We all have sin in our lives even after we are born again of the Spirit. We have not yet been perfected. So my response there is not defensive in nature but rather, from experience. It is harder than ever in the history of the world to have faith in the truth of Prophets or men of God (or who is trying to be) to the point of believing the things that they say. It's easier to doubt than to Believe, that's for sure. But like scripture says, if you draw closer to the Lord, then He will draw closer to you. This is true and the Lord begins operating in a persons life and making Himself known to them in deeper ways of truth than they have ever experienced. It happens to me. So I know the scripture is true and faith and belief grows. Now I don't mean that I am anything special. I am nothing! Nobody! And then the day came that I looked death in the face and instinctively reached out to the Lord. Lord be with me...and Hew johnny on the spot! Saved my life. I owe Him my life. I knew this in the core of my being. So I submersed myself into the Bible and prayer to Him....and all of a sudden, He became very real in my everyday life. How many Testimonies would you like to hear? The Lord has done so many supernatural tings for me that when I think about it, I am in awe. Because I aint anybody. Who am I, that God should regard me? But He did and does and has shown it many many times. (And yes, my Carnal mind will argue with me, oh that wasn't God and try to explain it in a worldly way instead of a Twilight Zone way that God seems to be fond of! But I was there and I've seen these things happen. And He's always confirmed it for me in some way.

One day I had the thought, one day I will stand before Jesus and He will speak to me. What happens if He asks me, Hey did you read my Book? That scared me cuz I would not have to say no! That would be embarassing. So I read it cover to cover now. I think I am on my 4th or 5th time reading cover to cover? 3 Chapters a day will read the entire Bible from Genesis to Revealation in one year. It's a nice pace. I am in Numbers today. That book, the Field Manual is not a book of truth. There are a few of those. But it is THE book of Truth

He knew us before we were formed in the womb. He knows that we were born with Amnesia so can't remember where we are from, Heaven. And the Lord dropped us into a war behind enemy lines with nothing except A Field Manual! The Bible! A Radio, Prayer! and a helper/Teacher/Guide if we make contact with Him! (The Holy Spirit)

Yeah that's a very important book. Our Field Manual for the Kingdom of God.

 

[MA2444]

Should not be underestimated. Agree.

That's the short of it. I know that KJV Bible that they put in my hand when I was about 10 or 12 is the right book of Truth. Because if I die and go find myself before Buddah or whoever, it's not my fault that he didnt clue me in that he's god. My True God did!

And we gotta be close to all the world having heard the Gospel of Christ. Then Jesus comes back. There's more missionaries than ever in the world right now, and they are close to done!

 

[MA2444]

St. SteVen said:
There you go. You are preaching Eternal INsecurity.

Not biblical? - LOL
Neither is the word "Trinity". Do you reject that idea out of hand?

Any thinking person should be able to follow what I am saying.

The derogatory term OSAS stands for Once Saved Always Saved.
The anti-OSAS position dismisses Eternal Security.
The idea that one can forfeit their salvation through neglect, or an intentional act.
Therefore the anti-OSAS position amounts to the position of Eternal INsecurity.

Can you follow that?

/

I guess you are not seeing my point. It's not the letter, but the Spirit. While I am anti-OSAS in my position, I can not dismiss eternal security because that comes through the Spirit and not through a doctrine of man. Either you can feel the presence of the Lord with you or you can't. I feel it right now, He is here with me. Maybe feel is a bad term for it. It's certainly a perceiving but it not like feelings or emotions. Though the presence of God can affect ones emotions.

If you can feel the presence of the Lord and are senstive to the promptings of the Holy Spirit you will be able to feel the supernatural peace within yourself and know that I do have eternal security.

So in the case of the question of OSAS or not? we would now perhaps make a distinction between the Christians who walk in Truth and Sincerety, and those who be christian in name only. Some people get it right and some people don't, right? So I would venture to say that Jesus may spew some of them out of His mouth. It is to those people that all of those warnings are to in scripture. Me too and everyone! Why else would it say, He will say I never knew you to some people? That's a huge warning.

But I submit you as the humble nobody that I am, that when I have the awareness of the presence of the Holy Spirit with me and Holy Spirit brings eternal security to ones spirit through the peace of His presence.


Does that makes sense to you?

 

[St. SteVen]

The Lord's words will not come back to Him void.

What do you suppose he does with the contradictory words? Are they not void? Having cancelled each other out.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Some people get it right and some people don't, right?

Is that the crux of salvation? Us getting it right?
How are such things measured?

/

 

[MA2444]

Is that the crux of salvation? Us getting it right?
How are such things measured?

/

I can't make judgement calls for God so I dunno exactly but I know that it includes repenting from our sins and asking forgiveness for them and accepting the Lord Jesus as our Lord into our life, seeking Him first and foremost in all things. But even the best of people will stumle and sin but do they ignore their conscience and dismiss it to justify their sin or confess and repent anew to come back into God's good draces again. The better we obey His words, the more He will reward us (both here and in Heave) for our obedience.

If someone stumbles and committs a sin, does he need to confess it and repent again? (Yes he does). If he doesn't confess it and take it to God and accidently dies without confessing it, does he dies in his sins and be condemned?

With all the warnings in scripture, it is probable that they would lose the savation that they had before they chose to sin again willfully.

 

[MA2444]

What do you suppose he does with the contradictory words? Are they not void? Having cancelled each other out.

/

There is not any contradictions in the bible. Every time that I have thought that there was a contradiction, it was that I did not understand the passage properly. They don't cancel each other out, Lol!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I can't make judgement calls for God so I dunno exactly but I know that it includes repenting from our sins and asking forgiveness for them and accepting the Lord Jesus as our Lord into our life, seeking Him first and foremost in all things. But even the best of people will stumle and sin but do they ignore their conscience and dismiss it to justify their sin or confess and repent anew to come back into God's good draces again. The better we obey His words, the more He will reward us (both here and in Heave) for our obedience.

If someone stumbles and committs a sin, does he need to confess it and repent again? (Yes he does). If he doesn't confess it and take it to God and accidently dies without confessing it, does he dies in his sins and be condemned?

With all the warnings in scripture, it is probable that they would lose the savation that they had before they chose to sin again willfully.

how can we lose a salvation we could never earn?

Sin willfully? Is this not returning to our old self and rejecting God?

 

[St. SteVen]

I can't make judgement calls for God so I dunno exactly but I know that it includes repenting from our sins and asking forgiveness for them and accepting the Lord Jesus as our Lord into our life, seeking Him first and foremost in all things.

Does everyone have the opportunity to do that?
And doesn't the Bible say that no one can come to God unless he draws them? (John 6:44)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

There is not any contradictions in the bible. Every time that I have thought that there was a contradiction, it was that I did not understand the passage properly. They don't cancel each other out, Lol!

Yup, that is the party line. (dogma)
We are currently discussing a MAJOR contradiction.
I posted 124 verses on this topic supporting Eternal Security.

The Case for Eternal Security

/

 

[Behold]

how can we lose a salvation we could never earn?

Sin willfully? Is this not returning to our old self and rejecting God?

If Jesus has all your sin, then what you do that use to be defined by the Law (that has no authority over you anymore), can't define you or your deeds, as sinner or sin.
This is why Paul refers to all that as "works of the flesh".
See..
Only the Law can define your carnality as SIN, and you as a sinner.
So, when you are "not under the law, but under Grace", you exit here..

A.) ""Where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression"..

So, the OSAS Heretics, who, many of them are not even born again, can't see this truth regarding what it means to have become "in Christ" where the Law of Moses does not exist.

Here is the Christian....

= "As CHRIST IS.... so are the born again......IN THIS World".

So, does CHRIST have sin?
He left yours in the Grave, and came out of the Grave.
Its ALL gone.

And the born again, are "IN CHRIST"< and there is no LAW there, and NO SIN.

And the Christian says..........."but what i if do something wrong, or bad". "again". and "again".

And the Christian says...."What if i binge on Netflix, or watch Game of Thrones and enjoy the Rape and Sex for 7 yrs while it was on once a week"

Then you will reap what you have sown in your own body and spirituality...., but you will not be judged to be a sinner, because there is no LAW to judge you, if you are born again.

The born again are "not under the LAW...but under GRACE"..

And God's Grace never judges you as anything but "blood bought", "redeemed by the blood of the Lamb" and have become a "new Creation in Christ"..... if you are truly Born..again.

Welcome To : SALVATiON
Its a "GIFT".

 

[MA2444]

Does everyone have the opportunity to do that?
And doesn't the Bible say that no one can come to God unless he draws them? (John 6:44)

/

Yes. Or will have.

It does say that!

 

[MA2444]

Yup, that is the party line. (dogma)
We are currently discussing a MAJOR contradiction.
I posted 124 verses on this topic supporting Eternal Security.

The Case for Eternal Security

/

The party line? Like it is not yours? Doesn't it say Christian below your name? So how could we have different lines and both be of the faith?

124 verses supporting OSAS? Huh. Alright, riddle me this, A question about
Revelation 3:14-16
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.../KJV

If everyone has OSAS security no matter what like you seem to be implying, then who in the world is He talking to here? And what does spue you out of my mouth mean? Do they lose thier salvation because they were lukewarm christians?

If OSAS is true then what the heck does that mean? So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth” (Revelation 3:15-16). With these words, Jesus gave both a frightening threat and an appeal. And though it was originally directed to one group of believers, the principle behind it applies to every Christian.

 

[St. SteVen]

The party line? Like it is not yours? Doesn't it say Christian below your name? So how could we have different lines and both be of the faith?

Not every Christian believes there are no contradictions in the Bible. Nor is it a requirement.

As for the rest of your post, I understand that there are two biblical views on this subject.
So there's no need to argue about it.

/

 

[BlessedPeace]

Ya know, the Pharisees were sure that they had the truth as well. They did not like having Jesus walk around telling them that their truth was no longer in effect.

That's because the Pharisees made a law unto themselves,and thought they were empowered as law keepers.

We do nothing to save ourselves. Salvation is an irrevocable choice of God,and his gift through grace.

Those who don't agree with what is called OSAA, don't understand it. They also do t understand the status of a Christian,those in Christ. Even though God spells it our precisely in his word.

Our eternal irrevocable Salvation is not sustained by man's consensus.

It is of God. And when God gives us his gift he can certainly insure it holds for as long as he said it would. Because God knew us before the womb. He called us. He knew what he was doing before the creation of the world.

 

[Hillsage]

If Jesus has all your sin, then what you do that use to be defined by the Law (that has no authority over you anymore), can't define you or your deeds, as sinner or sin.
This is why Paul refers to all that as "works of the flesh".
See..
Only the Law can define your carnality as SIN, and you as a sinner.
So, when you are "not under the law, but under Grace", you exit here..

A.) ""Where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression"..

So, the OSAS Heretics, who, many of them are not even born again, can't see this truth regarding what it means to have become "in Christ" where the Law of Moses does not exist.

Here is the Christian....

= "As CHRIST IS.... so are the born again......IN THIS World".

So, does CHRIST have sin?
He left yours in the Grave, and came out of the Grave.
Its ALL gone.

And the born again, are "IN CHRIST"< and there is no LAW there, and NO SIN.

And the Christian says..........."but what i if do something wrong, or bad". "again". and "again".

And the Christian says...."What if i binge on Netflix, or watch Game of Thrones and enjoy the Rape and Sex for 7 yrs while it was on once a week"

Then you will reap what you have sown in your own body and spirituality...., but you will not be judged to be a sinner, because there is no LAW to judge you, if you are born again.

The born again are "not under the LAW...but under GRACE"..

And God's Grace never judges you as anything but "blood bought", "redeemed by the blood of the Lamb" and have become a "new Creation in Christ"..... if you are truly Born..again.

Welcome To : SALVATiON
Its a "GIFT".

JAM 5:14 Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.

Looks like they still had sin to me. This was written long after Jesus died for the ETERNAL consequence of sin for EVERYONE. But the TEMPORAL consequence will still KILL you because the first covenant has never been revoked or fulfilled or . And that covenant with Adam WAS and STILL is, "the LAW of SIN and DEATH." That's why every dead Christian you've know has died, or will die.

ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me FREE from the law of sin and death.

"FREE" 1659 eleutheroo: to liberate, i.e. (fig.) to exempt (from moral, cereremonial or MORTAL LIABILITY)
And you are only 'free of MORTAL LIABILITY if you aren't sinning.

Also, same Greek word for "FREE" in Joh 8:32, 8:36 ("FREE" in 36 2x but 2 different Greek words) Rom 6:18, 22, 8:2, 8:21, Gal 5:1

So YES you are judged as a sinner, because that's what kills us
James 1:15 "sin when it is full grown causes DEATH."

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Yup, that is the party line. (dogma)
We are currently discussing a MAJOR contradiction.
I posted 124 verses on this topic supporting Eternal Security.

The party line? Like it is not yours? Doesn't it say Christian below your name? So how could we have different lines and both be of the faith?

Post #575 from the topic lists several contradictions. (better than I could) Probably not exhaustive either.

"I am not of that view. I think there are lots of instances of scriptures not agreeing with each other that can ONLY be understood as just plain contradictory. Fortunately, they are generally disagreements over irrelevant factual details.

Do we really care whether the centurion who wanted Jesus to heal his servant approached Jesus in person (Matthew 8:5-13) or sent an intermediary (Luke 7:2-10)? Do we really care whether “Saul took his own sword and fell upon it” (1 Samuel 31:4) or whether “the Philistines killed Saul on Gilboa” (2 Samuel 21:12)? Do we really care whether Jesse had seven sons (1 Chronicles 2:13-15) or eight (1 Samuel 16:10-11)? Do we really care whether Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he began to reign (2 Kings 8:26) or forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)? Do we really care whether Solomon had 4,000 horse stalls (2 Chronicles 9:25) or 40,000 (1 Kings 4:26)? Do we care whether Moses’ sending spies into Canaan was suggested by God (Numbers 13:1-2,) or by the people (Deuteronomy 1:22)? Does it matter whether Joseph’s lineage is traced from David through Solomon (Matt. 1:6) or through Nathan (Luke 3:31)?

Why couldn’t two different writers just disagree on these details? Ask an inerrantist whether Jesus sent his apostles out with sandals and staff (Mark 6:8-9) or without them (Matthew 10:10), and the answer will come back “The gospels must have been describing two different missions.” Ask where the “must have” comes from, and the answer ultimately comes back, in words or substance, that the consistency of Scripture is a given. This approach seems to me to be reasoning the matter backwards. Inerrancy should be a conclusion from the evidence, not an axiom by which to assess the evidence.

I do not see the point in downplaying the human element like this. I expect theological truth from my Bible, not factual accuracy on minute historical details. And I am not scandalized by inaccuracies as to the latter.

The better approach, in my opinion, is to focus on the inerrancy of the message of a given passage, rather than of the extraneous details with which the passage is adorned. Consider, for example, Mark 2:26, which quotes Jesus as saying that David entered the house of God and ate the altar bread “when Abiathar was high priest.” 1 Samuel 21:1-6 is explicit that Ahimelech, not his son Abiathar, was high priest at the time. In my view, it doesn’t matter whether Jesus got this detail wrong or Mark got it wrong, simply because it doesn’t matter at all―to the message of the gospel story. The point being made by Jesus (or Mark) is theologically sound even if not historically accurate, originally or in the retelling."

/ cc: @RedFan

 

[ElieG12]

The Bible is clear as to whether there will be people who will be completely eliminated from existence forever.