Why do the self taught preach an incomplete gospel?

[DNB]

In the area of music teaching, the phrase is: "The person who is self-taught has a fool for a teacher". How true is that for those who maintain that they can teach themselves the Bible without referring to others who through maturity and experience can contribute so much to their Bible knowledge? They miss the item in Paul's five fold ministry list - "teacher". Why do we have teachers in the body of Christ, if we are to always be self taught to discover what the Bible is really showing us about the nature of God and His ways, and His plan of salvation for mankind?

Actually, upon viewing some contentious exchanges on these threads, those who are self-taught become very obvious in their clear lack of sound Bible knowledge and doctrine.

Well, please Paul, it's one thing to incite a warning against an isolated education in God's Word, but then, to exegete Scripture as poorly as he did, is clearly self incriminating, and undermining to his OP.

Yes, self-taught can have its limitations, but, who is strictly self taught?
Even those that have not had a formal education in Biblical studies, invariably study the works of other eminent scholars and teachers, in all sorts of mediums (video, books, audio, discussions or study groups, forums, web-sites, ...).
Sometimes, the only difference between a self-taught education, and a institutional one, is the cost that one paid to receive it. Loosely speaking.
But again, which self-taught exegete does so in complete isolation, or without the aid of authoritative sources and materials?
Very few, if any, I imagine.

 

[Faither]

There is nothing false about believing and receiving. John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. If you truly believed then you would understand this. I don't teach works salvation.

As I have said numerous times, This belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful - Matthew 13:23) - but the fruit/actions/works are NOT INHERENT in the belief.

When we choose to believe in/have faith in Christ for salvation (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8) we are entrusting our spiritual well being to Christ, along with placing confidence, trust and reliance in Him for salvation. (cause) That would be a personal surrender to Him. A conduct inspired by such surrender, which involves actions/fruit/works appropriate to that belief would be the (effect).

Loving one another fulfills the law. (Romans 13:8) The word "faithe" is an obsolete spelling of faith.

I believe in Christ unto salvation, my choice. You believe in obsolete words and works salvation, your choice.

You are very confused, proud and misguided. You also sound like a troll. I will continue to pray for you.

Yes, but not elevating, simply regarding their exemplary faith as something to be aspired to, and emulated. Not as a requisite conviction or awareness for salvation.


Seriously?


Yes, I am perceiving you as claiming to have an authority, ...that is unwarranted. You are differentiating between your faith, and that of others, claiming that theirs is deficient to yours, due to your conversion process.
Thus, your impression of your Biblical comprehension is rather audacious, misguided, and undeniably fallacious!

I guess we'll see about that.

 

[charity]

I was waiting to see if there was anyone who legitimately wanted to know, or just respond unkindly.

Christ commands us ," wherever this gospel is preached, tell what this woman did." That pretty much is never done.

What did this woman do?
She brought the valuable oil, her most prize possession, her life's work , and poured it onto the feet of Christ.

What did Judas the keeper of the money say? Why this waste? We could have sold this valuable ointment and given the money to the poor.

Christ then said, this woman has done a good work. " Wherever this gospel is preached, tell what this woman did."

When Christ said this, He was elevating what this woman did on par with His work on the Cross. He made it just as important as His work on the Cross.

Here's what the woman did in the eyes of Christ.

She came into the last supper completely covered, including her face and head. She kneeled before Christ and without anyone knowing who she was " wasted " her most prize possession, her life's work on Christ. This is a type of our part of the salvation process! We must sacrifice ourselves, surrender our lives, in secret whenever possible. I promise you, she left after this and know one knew who she was. But Jesus knew, He new who she was without seeing her face.

This command Jesus tells us to do whenever His gospel is preached is never fulfilled. It proves that because Jesus put this work of the woman at the same level as Hiseork on Calvary, Faith is an act ( a surrendered life ) , based upon a Belief ( that He will accept the surrendered life), sustained by confidence ( trusting in Him by making all the many daily decisions that support the fact that our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.).

Christ provided His gift of Grace by the finished work on Calvary. We respond to that Grace" by Faith" , by wasting our lives on Him! Just like the woman did.

'Verily I say unto you,
Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world,
this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.'
(Mark 14:9)

Hello @Faither,

I think the interpretation you have given of the action this lady undertook for the Lord Jesus, is really rather lovely, but, with respect, I do not think that the Lord's words concerning her was a command, but a statement of fact, based on His foreknowledge. Her action is a matter of the written record, it was chosen for inclusion from among the many other incidents which have gone unrecorded, and for a purpose. This is a memorial of her, as Jesus said, for she had, according to the Lord's words, anointed His body for burial, in anticipation of His coming death (Mark 14:8).

* This is how the Lord spoke of her actions, and this is how we also should consider them, for it is His interpretation of them that counts, and not those of our own understanding, lovely as they may sound.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Willie T]

It seems as though @Faither has gleefully invented yet another "law" to follow.

 

[DPMartin]

No. Because He was giving His teaching exclusively to unconverted Jews. The Pauline revelation is as much Jesus talking, because He worked closely with Paul during his three years seclusion in Arabia. In effect, Jesus gave him the same three years training He gave to the other Apostles. Paul said himself that what he wrote in his letters, he did not receive by flesh and blood, but by direct revelation from Christ Himself.

During the earthly ministry of Jesus, the true gospel was a mystery down through previous ages, and the O.T. Law and Prophets were foreshadows of what was to be revealed later. But Paul says that what was the mystery has now been fully revealed, and the book of Romans does that.

There is an incorrect notion that Paul's teaching is inferior to that of Jesus, but that is an error. It discounts that the Holy Spirit is God, and that Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit is come, He will teach us all we need to know. Paul was specially chosen to be inspired by the Holy Spirit to reveal the mystery of the true gospel of Christ that completes the whole picture, which was partial until it was fully revealed to Paul.

So I think it is ill advised to make the teaching of Jesus to the Jews as a priority over Paul's teaching, because it is the same Jesus who taught the Jews and gave the revelation of the complete gospel to Paul. The teaching of Jesus to the Jews was to show that no matter how hard they tried to keep the Law, they will never achieve anything more than the righteousness of the Pharisees. But when He died on the cross, He gives His own righteousness as a free gift to those who receive Him as Saviour, and His righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees who were seeking to be justified by the Mosaic Law, but the righteousness of Christ is given to us on the basis of our faith in His finished work on Calvary.

nothing like watching the blind argue with the blind

you are way off base there Paul Christensen:
Jesus says here long before Paul was preaching:
Mat_24:14　 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

hence that would be the gospel Jesus was preaching.

what Jesus meant was in His statement to the effect that He was there for the Children of Israel is to fulfill the promise to Abraham that Abraham's children would receive the salvation first, of which Paul makes refence to in his statement of "to the Jews first".

Jesus is the Word and nothing supersedes the Word of God, if Paul was to do otherwise he wouldn't be preaching the gospel. what Paul preaches is according to the Lord Jesus. the Gospel preached by Jesus is not in any way shape or form according to Paul.

 

[mailmandan]

2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[amadeus]

Stay with topic please.

You mentioned your teacher and asked about mine. Since the verse I quoted indicates that the Holy Ghost teaches "all things" how could it be off topic? To me, whether we are listening to the Holy Ghost speak through a man or receiving directly from God in us, it is most certainly on the 'topic'. The Holy Ghost is... or should be my teacher and yours!

Perhaps you should been a little more precise in your OP or in your question to me... if you wanted a different answer.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Well, please Paul, it's one thing to incite a warning towards an isolated education in God's Word, but then, to exegete Scripture as poorly as he did, is clearly self incriminating, and undermining to his OP.
Yes, self-taught can have its limitations, but, who is strictly self taught?

Even those that have not had a formal education in Biblical studies, invariably study the works of other eminent scholars and teachers, in all sorts of mediums (video, books, audio, discussions or study groups, forums, web-sites, ...).
Sometimes, the only difference between a self-taught education, and a institutional one, is the cost that one paid to receive it. Loosely speaking.
But again, which self-taught exegete does so in complete isolation, or without the aid of authoritative sources and materials?
Very few, if any, I imagine.

I was a high school dropout and left school without any qualifications. But when I became a Christian, I did exactly how you described - read all the men and women of God who were known as great soul-winners, to find out what they believed in comparison to those who appeared to be all talk. I also read every devotional and theological work by the Puritans and learned my theological foundations that way. It was not until my late 30s that I gained a degree in English Literature and became a school teacher; and I gained my M.Div at the age of 68. So, in terms of formal education I was a bit of a late bloomer.

I don't think I was self-taught in the sense that I had just the Bible and drew my own conclusions from it. I brought a set of Spurgeon's Treasury of the Bible and through his written sermons he became my pastor and teacher for a number of years when I was in a small home fellowship without a pastor. While doing my post-graduate degree in English, I learned the techniques of scholarship which was of great assistance to me, and when I did my research paper for my M.Div, I obtained (from my favourite Christian second hand book shop) every book I could on the divine healing ministry (the good, bad, and the ugly) so I could get a good overview of the Scriptural, historic, and current views and practices of the divine healing ministry. I gained 95% for that research paper, from a non-Charismatic on-line Bible College no less! I published it under the title "The Divine Healing Ministry, Then and Now".

So, when I told our fine feathered friend that in order to gain satisfactory knowledge about a theological topic or issue, one must read every available book and article on it, I was telling him to do something that I have done myself. To be able to find the precious nuggets, one must do a lot of digging, or as I tell my 28 year old daughter who has just broken up with her current boyfriend - "To meet your handsome prince you have to kiss quite a few toads first!"

 

[Faither]

'Verily I say unto you,
Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world,
this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.'
(Mark 14:9)

Hello @Faither,

I think the interpretation you have given of the action this lady undertook for the Lord Jesus, is really rather lovely, but, with respect, I do not think that the Lord's words concerning her was a command, but a statement of fact, based on His foreknowledge. Her action is a matter of the written record, it was chosen for inclusion from among the many other incidents which have gone unrecorded, and for a purpose. This is a memorial of her, as Jesus said, for she had, according to the Lord's words, anointed His body for burial, in anticipation of His coming death (Mark 14:8).

* This is how the Lord spoke of her actions, and this is how we also should consider them, for it is His interpretation of them that counts, and not those of our own understanding, lovely as they may sound.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Agreed. A command is maybe a little over the top, but a suggestion wouldn't be enough. The important part of this is that Christ made a point to elevate what this woman did on par or as the same importance as His work on the Cross.

I'm not saying that what she did in any way fulfill the perfect sacrifice that only Christ can do. But what she did was an example of a surrendered life, a surrendered life wasted on Christ. He elevated her act of Faith to the same importance as His work on the Cross. Christ work on the cross provided Grace to the world, we receive it individually by Faith and faithing, starting by a surrendered life.

We need to make sure we are not standing with Judas who said " why this waste"? Discerned, he is saying this has no importance other than it's value, when Jesus saw a fulfillment of pisteuo. This is why He said " wherever this gospel is preached, tell what this woman did." The perfect example of Faith applied!

" Believing" is a part of her fulfilling pisteuo or saving Faith, but if she would have " only" believed in the things He was saying, ( God's word ) it would have not availed the response she received from Jesus.

 

[Faither]

You mentioned your teacher and asked about mine. Since the verse I quoted indicates that the Holy Ghost teaches "all things" how could it be off topic? To me, whether we are listening to the Holy Ghost speak through a man or receiving directly from God in us, it is most certainly on the 'topic'. The Holy Ghost is... or should be my teacher and yours!

Perhaps you should been a little more precise in your OP or in your question to me... if you wanted a different answer.

This thread is about what the woman did. The Spirit of Christ had not been given to faithers yet at the time of the last supper.

My apologies for not being more precise in my op. This is why I'm not a teacher!

 

[Faither]

It seems as though @Faither has gleefully invented yet another "law" to follow.

No just provided two Greek dictionarys definition of what saving Faith is.

Vines" a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

Strong's," pisteuo means NOT just to believe."

No opinion here just basic facts.

It's not our fault we've been taught a backwards message" believe and recieve" , but it is your fault if you don't turn from it and follow Him correctly.

 

[amadeus]

This thread is about what the woman did. The Spirit of Christ had not been given to faithers yet at the time of the last supper.

My apologies for not being more precise in my op. This is why I'm not a teacher!

Apology accepted!

I would however suggest that in the future if you want to discuss a specific event or group of verses to mention them specifically in the Title and/or in your first post. You used the expression "self-taught" as if that covered the territory and asked a question expecting I guess everyone to come up with the answer you already had. Your OP and the Title brought several things to my mind. I only used one of them in my first post here in as per Mark 16:15.

May God richly bless you as you walk with Him through all of these threads and posts!

 

[Faither]

It seems as though @Faither has gleefully invented yet another "law" to follow.

Also Willie, the Greek language doesn't allow work and effort to be separated from pisteuo or saving Faith. You don't have true pisteuo or saving Faith until the will is engaged with what the mind decides, and in a sustained process. The work and effort is simply 95 % courage, 4% endurance, and 1% everything else. Pisteuo as it relates to the living God must have God as the object of Faith.

The difference is that the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing change the object of Faith to God's word and His promises, rather than God Himself, areal living person.

Also, the mistranslated words allow this separation of any work or effort , which just isn't true.

Pisteuo is the hardest thing and the easiest thing you can ever do.

 

[Faither]

Apology accepted!

I would however suggest that in the future if you want to discuss a specific event or group of verses to mention them specifically in the Title and/or in your first post. You used the expression "self-taught" as if that covered the territory and asked a question expecting I guess everyone to come up with the answer you already had. Your OP and the Title brought several things to my mind. I only used one of them in my first post here in as per Mark 16:15.

May God richly bless you as you walk with Him through all of these threads and posts!

The topic kind of evolved from a couple of other threads, if you hadn't been following them I can see how it would be a vague op.

 

[amadeus]

The topic kind of evolved from a couple of other threads, if you hadn't been following them I can see how it would be a vague op.

I have not been very active for several days, but even when I am here daily I never read every post and I skip many threads altogether as I simply don't have the time or the patience. Some topics and some people I purposely avoid. One step at a time!

 

[Faither]

I have not been very active for several days, but even when I am here daily I never read every post and I skip many threads altogether as I simply don't have the time or the patience. Some topics and some people I purposely avoid. One step at a time!

The message I'm trying to share is not an easy one. Probably would be easier to stop Niagra falls. But I have to continue to make this information known to as many as possible.

I'm honored you made the choice to speak with me.

 

[amadeus]

The message I'm trying to share is not an easy one. Probably would be easier to stop Niagra falls. But I have to continue to make this information known to as many as possible.

I'm honored you made the choice to speak with me.

Well you go ahead and do what you believe you are led to do. If God is in it, who can stop it?

 

[Enoch111]

It seems as though @Faither has gleefully invented yet another "law" to follow.

Let's call it "Faither's Law" since he is evidently very pleased with his discovery.

 

[Faither]

Let's call it "Faither's Law" since he is evidently very pleased with his discovery.

Or, you could call it what it is, " pisteuo."

 

[Faither]

Just a little odd, the most important word in the NT Scriptures, ( other than Grace) and it couldn't be correctly translated into the English language?