Why do they hate being called Christians

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by mjrhealth, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    The word "loipos" in 1 Thess 5:6, Rev 12:17, Rev 20:5 says the "left behind" are those who are asleep, tribulation saints left after rapture and nonbelievers that are dead and in the grave. :rolleyes:
     
  2. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    Questor,

    Ecumenism, Chrislam and other compromises of biblical Christianity will gain a hearing in any culture if evangelical Christians remain silent. I'd recommend a read of R Albert Mohler Jr's book, We Cannot Be Silent (2015 Nelson Books).

    While it particularly addresses the issues of 'speaking truth to a culture redefining sex, marriage, & the very meaning of right & wrong' (sub-title of book), it has much broader application to our culture.

    Oz
     
  3. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Active Member

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    And the entire false teaching of a Pre-Tribulation "Rapture" is a man made invention that is only about 180 years old.
    Look up "John Nelson Darby" to find out where your false doctrine came from.

    This was never taught in the 1800 years of Christianity before Darby . . .
     
  4. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    It actually was and is taught in scripture. Also notice the word "teknon" in Rev 12 verse 4 and 5. If the church wasn't raptured, the red dragon would devour them..

    1 Thess 4:13-17 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

    Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.
     
  5. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Active Member

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    1 Thess 4:13-17 is talking about the 2nd Coming - at the END.
    The "child" in Rev. 12:1-5 who will "rule all nations" with an iron sceptre is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    The Church doesn't "rule all nations", Einstein . . .
     
  6. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    How could that be? The 70th week is 7 years of darkness, and the children of God are of the light and of the day. God would be in contradiction..

    Zep 1:15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness—

    1 Thess 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

    The restrainer (the daily sacrifice) being taken out of the way is the Holy Spirit inside believers.. HEAVENLY SIGN 2017

    Dan 12:11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice (believers in Christ) is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

    Rom 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship.

    Actually, the church will also rule with Christ..

    Rev 2:26-27 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father.

    Notice how John is connecting the head with the body through rapture by using "huios" and "teknon". In many passages huios is always used singularly, and teknon is always used to describe a group of people.. (the body of Christ).

    Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.
     
  7. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Active Member

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    Uhhhh . . . yeah.

    Explain
    why the Church never taught about the ridiculous idea of a Premillennial "Rapture" for almost 2000 years until John Nelson Darby began to teach it in the 1830's.
    Explain to me why this was not only NOT taught by the Catholic Church but by the Fathers of the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.
     
  8. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    That's actually not true. Paul and John both teach rapture.

    The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.

    Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea, Acts 8:39 and to describe Paul’s experience of being caught up into the third heaven, 2 Cor 12:2-4. Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.
     
  9. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Active Member

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    No - the Premillennial "Rapture" believe is a perversion of what Paul and John wrote.
    If you do a rudimentary study on this false doctrine - you will see that it was never taught by ANY arm of Christianity until John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.

    Why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?
     
  10. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    Then what does harpazo mean in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5. :rolleyes:
     
  11. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Active Member

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    First of all - you never answered my question:
    Why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?

    Secondly - where does 1 Thess. 4:17 speak of a Pre-Tribulation "Rapture."
    This is talking about the 2nd Coming of Christ.
     
  12. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    I did answer your question. It's a matter of unbelief at this point. Only God can change your heart.

    Rapture and the second coming of Christ are 7 years apart BOL. 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5 both have the word harpazo. Since we are still in the Grace period Rev 12:1-5 is literally coming to pass this September, which gives us pre-trib rapture before the 70th week. Are you saved?
     
  13. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Active Member

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    Uhhh, no, you didn't answer my question. Here it is again:
    Why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?

    I'll word it differently, to make it easier:
    After
    the Bible was written - why was this never taught for almost 1900 years in ALL of Christianity?

    You're obviously FAR too polluted with Darby-ism to have a rational discussion about this topic.
    All I can say is, pray for clarity . . .
     
  14. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    Because God doesn't change, only man does and his delusions.

    Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
     
  15. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    and while you keep blowing more hot air, planet x and the rev 12 sign is getting closer and closer and closer... :rolleyes:
     
  16. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Active Member

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    I hope so..
    I can't wait to see my Lord - and His mother . . .
     
  17. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Active Member

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    In other words - you have absolutely no explanation why this fallacy wasn't taught for 1800 years.
    Pretty much what I thought.

    You're a Darby-ist.
    Good luck with that . . .
     
  18. eldios

    eldios Member

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    Most people don't know that Jesus wasn't talking about his body when he said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." He was talking about the spirit of man and God called the word of God.

    John 6
    63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

    The spirit of God is the way, the truth and the life, not a visible body named Jesus.
     
  19. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    The word harpazo is in the Word of God. Wake up!!